Jared Cowen

[Minister of Offence]

In all fairness if Cowen does more of what he did last night hes more offensive minded then you may want with karlsson. And Cowen was back to normal last night.

Cowen jumps in the offensive zone a lot. Nothing new. The thing with Cowen is we haven't seen him in a rhythm in 2 years. There were spans where he found his rhythm and was on the scoreboard. It bodes well that we saw it well last night because it's an indication he's feeling good.

 

[BondraTime]

It was fascinating hearing Darren Dreger last night mention that Ottawa management sees Cowen as too 'offensive minded' to be paired with Karlsson any longer. They now prefer pairing Karlsson with a player on his final NHL contract, or a marginal NHLer in Phillips and Borowiecki respectively.

For an 'offensive minded' defenseman, Cowen averages 16 points per 82. He's over two full seasons in, and has spent half of that time paired with the best offensive minded defenseman on the planet.

Career stay at home defenseman Chris Phillips has averaged 20 points per 82 over 1100+ games, roughly maintaining that pace give or take 5 points since the beginning, and certainly not playing alongside a partner of Erik Karlsson's ilk.

Cowen was never a legitimate offensive defensemen, as he never once put up a point a game in junior. His junior stats are very similar to Phillips', in fact. To expect him to flourish offensively in the NHL is foolish and unprecedented.

Should Marc Methot recover and prove worth extending, I'd take a good hard look at moving Cowen. The excuse against doing so when his play had bottomed out was that his value had also bottomed out. Now that it is starting to trend up, and given that Garrioch mentioned that several teams have been interested in Cowen all along, the return could be enticing enough to seriously consider it. Think of the pieces that could be pried from an Edmonton or Colorado.

After all, with Gryba playing excellent shut down defense, and with Borowiecki playing well defensively and excellent physically, Cowen could become management's ace up the sleeve in negotiations if he continues to play consistent defensively.

If you see Cowen as an "Offensive minded Defenseman", or take the word of someone who does, therein lies the problem.

We all know that he is a physical, defensive defensman with possible offenseive potential to his game.

 

[BondraTime]

In all fairness if Cowen does more of what he did last night hes more offensive minded then you may want with karlsson. And Cowen was back to normal last night.

Cowen jumps in the offensive zone a lot. Nothing new. The thing with Cowen is we haven't seen him in a rhythm in 2 years. There were spans where he found his rhythm and was on the scoreboard. It bodes well that we saw it well last night because it's an indication he's feeling good.

I still remember laughing at his 4 point night against the Pens as a rookie.

 

[OgieO]

Perhaps the context was that the Sens WANT him to be more offensive and therefore prefer him on a different pairing where he can play with the puck, etc.

No idea, just throwing out possibilities.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Dreger doesn't watch sens games.

Regardless, he relayed the ' too offensive minded' comment from Ottawa management.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Perhaps the context was that the Sens WANT him to be more offensive and therefore prefer him on a different pairing where he can play with the puck, etc.

No idea, just throwing out possibilities.

If they do, it's somewhat out of the blue given his pedigree. He has never been that guy. But I see your point; it's possible.

If you see Cowen as an "Offensive minded Defenseman", or take the word of someone who does, therein lies the problem.

We all know that he is a physical, defensive defensman with possible offenseive potential to his game.

The point isn't how I perceive Cowen, it's how management does.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

I don't trust a word out of Dreger's mouth. I seriously doubt Ottawa management think he's too offensive minded, if anything they want him to be more offensive minded.

 

[LuckyPierre]

I don't trust a word out of Dreger's mouth. I seriously doubt Ottawa management think he's too offensive minded, if anything they want him to be more offensive minded.

They have repeatedly been quoted as saying they want him to simplify his game. Which he has, to his credit.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I don't trust a word out of Dreger's mouth. I seriously doubt Ottawa management think he's too offensive minded, if anything they want him to be more offensive minded.

He was saying that he's possibly too offensive minded to be paired up with Karlsson at this point in time

If Cowen needs some confidence then letting him play how he feels most comfortable is how you do it

Clearly asking him to be more of a shutdown guy wasn't working to start the season

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

They have repeatedly been quoted as saying they want him to simplify his game. Which he has, to his credit.

I don't think simplify means be less offensive. Cowen doesn't even have a point this year.

 

[DrakeAndJosh]

He was saying that he's possibly too offensive minded to be paired up with Karlsson at this point in time

If Cowen needs some confidence then letting him play how he feels most comfortable is how you do it

Clearly asking him to be more of a shutdown guy wasn't working to start the season

I agree with this. Karlsson is probably a hard guy to play with, not a good place for Cowen to find his game.

 

[LuckyPierre]

I don't think simplify means be less offensive. Cowen doesn't even have a point this year.

There's a distinction between being 'offensive minded', and producing offense.

That's the point of my original post too, if you want to boil it down to that. If he's too offensive minded, according to management, that could be somewhat problematic in the long run.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Cowen regularly jumps up into the play, this was actually a problem at the start as he was doing it with karlsson.

Cowen does have an offensive inclination. It isn't crazy talk At all. He's always been a guy that likes to get involved in deeper in the offensive zone and I fully expect you'll see it regularly as his confidence rises. And he's gonna handle the puck like he did last night, you'll see some points too.

 

[Minister of Offence]

There's a distinction between being 'offensive minded', and producing offense.

That's the point of my original post too, if you want to boil it down to that. If he's too offensive minded, according to management, that could be somewhat problematic in the long run.

You're making the right distinction. Like I said, more of last night and you get 30-40 point guy.

If it progresses from there you just might put him on the pp. I said the other day his puck skill woud need a quantum leap to really take his game to the level some thought. I doubt it gets that far but last night he was handling the puck nicely.

This is a developing player who has lost significant development time. He's hedmans age but behind in development time...wouldn't look at past production as an indication of what he is or will be.

 

[DrEasy]

He has a great shot. If he could handle the puck better, and he has of late, he'd be a fearsome weapon on the PP.

 

[BondraTime]

You're making the right distinction. Like I said, more of last night and you get 30-40 point guy.

If it progresses from there you just might put him on the pp. I said the other day his puck skill woud need a quantum leap to really take his game to the level some thought. I doubt it gets that far but last night he was handling the puck nicely.

This is a developing player who has lost significant development time. He's hedmans age but behind in development time...wouldn't look at past production as an indication of what he is or will be.

Year (birth year/development year) younger than Hedman actually.

Essentially the same age though, but this makes a difference in hockey players.

 

[LuckyPierre]

You're making the right distinction. Like I said, more of last night and you get 30-40 point guy.

If it progresses from there you just might put him on the pp. I said the other day his puck skill woud need a quantum leap to really take his game to the level some thought. I doubt it gets that far but last night he was handling the puck nicely.

This is a developing player who has lost significant development time. He's hedmans age but behind in development time...wouldn't look at past production as an indication of what he is or will be.

40 is very unreasonable. He's had a Phillips-lite arc through junior and his first 160+ games. Phillips himself never once scored more than 26 points in a season.

 

[BondraTime]

40 is very unreasonable. He's had a Phillips-lite arc through junior and his first 160+ games. Phillips himself never once scored more than 26 points in a season.

I agree it is unreasonable at this point to peg Cowen as a 40 point guy. I see him hitting stride at 25-35.

In saying that, development isn't linear. Ryan Suter's best offensive season before he became a pro was 24 points in 42 games with the Under 18 U.S development team.

 

[Minister of Offence]

It's funny because I'm sure you'd have understood the post differently had it said 30-39. And it's reliant on nights like last night where he produced 3 shots and was very present and effective down low.

Phillips best was 26 because he rarely ever did what cowen did last night.
So before you go saying I said he's gonna be a 40 point guy, understand what I said was that you get a 30-40 point guy if you get offensive activity out of him like you did last night. If he continues to handle the luck with that confidence, there's no reason he can't be more involved the way he wants to.

Looking at past points for a player will often give you an indication of where he's headed, but at the times when a player takes a leap in what he's doing on the ice you have a much better predictor of where his numbers may go.

I don't know what Cowen evolves into, all Ive said is that the people that turned on him may look pretty stupid. He'll be a little beyond where I thought he'd get if we see last night more often, but I'm open to the possibility he gets beyond where I thoguht if he continues to get involved that way. Something to watch for.

If he continues to handle the puck that way it's a huge boost for his trajectory.

 

[Micklebot]

It's funny because I'm sure you'd have understood the post differently had it said 30-39. And it's reliant on nights like last night where he produced 3 shots and was very present and effective down low.

Phillips best was 26 because he rarely ever did what cowen did last night.
So before you go saying I said he's gonna be a 40 point guy, understand what I said was that you get a 30-40 point guy if you get offensive activity out of him like you did last night. If he continues to handle the luck with that confidence, there's no reason he can't be more involved the way he wants to.

Looking at past points for a player will often give you an indication of where he's headed, but at the times when a player takes a leap in what he's doing on the ice you have a much better predictor of where his numbers may go.

I don't know what Cowen evolves into, all Ive said is that the people that turned on him may look pretty stupid. He'll be a little beyond where I thought he'd get if we see last night more often, but I'm open to the possibility he gets beyond where I thoguht if he continues to get involved that way. Something to watch for.

If he continues to handle the puck that way it's a huge boost for his trajectory.

Phillips actually had better offensive numbers than Weber in the WHL; you can't trust junior numbers for D, it's about the skill set, not the pts.

Cowen has a big shot, and like Chara did when he got here, he needs to learn to take a bit off the backswing to make sure he can get it off in time.

He shows some flashes of handling the puck well and evading forwards in the offensive zone, which Phillips never really showed, but he also fumbles it a bit when pressured in the defensive end. He seems to be cleaning that up though, so that could be great.

I don't see high end vision, or passing, so offensively I think the best we get is a trigger man, which is fine. If he can be steady and unleash the odd bomb from the point, he'll start racking up some modest numbers.

 

[Minister of Offence]

Phillips actually had better offensive numbers than Weber in the WHL; you can't trust junior numbers for D, it's about the skill set, not the pts.

Cowen has a big shot, and like Chara did when he got here, he needs to learn to take a bit off the backswing to make sure he can get it off in time.

He shows some flashes of handling the puck well and evading forwards in the offensive zone, which Phillips never really showed, but he also fumbles it a bit when pressured in the defensive end. He seems to be cleaning that up though, so that could be great.

I don't see high end vision, or passing, so offensively I think the best we get is a trigger man, which is fine. If he can be steady and unleash the odd bomb from the point, he'll start racking up some modest numbers.

Phillips and weber also played in different eras. But ya you can't rely on junior #s or even past #s...there's alwas exceptions and often predictable if you're watching right.

If he's gonna be big and rangy and get down low with the puck he doesn't really need vision or whatever to put up some more numbers. If you get down low and throw enough pucks to the net, you'll get some points. Just remains to be seen if he can do it to the level he did last night on thereg

 

[lafite]

I think if you replace "offensive" with "pinching", I think Dreger might be right. Cowen does pinch, even if it doesn't produce a lot of points, can stop the opponents from breaking out and keep the pressure on. This is something that should be encouraged in his game, even if he has to pick his spots more responsibly. If you are playing with Karlsson, you have to hang back and cover up when required.

 

[Minister of Offence]

I think if you replace "offensive" with "pinching", I think Dreger might be right. Cowen does pinch, even if it doesn't produce a lot of points, can stop the opponents from breaking out and keep the pressure on. This is something that should be encouraged in his game, even if he has to pick his spots more responsibly. If you are playing with Karlsson, you have to hang back and cover up when required.

So dreger didn't say anything wrong.

 

[lafite]

So dreger didn't say anything wrong.

I don't think so, although I can see where people could take issue with "too offensive" which can be taken as describing a Karlsson, Doughty or Subban type of player, which Cowen is not.

 

[Minister of Offence]

I don't think so, although I can see where people could take issue with "too offensive" which can be taken as describing a Karlsson, Doughty or Subban type of player, which Cowen is not.

Yeah i get that's what ppl thought but as long as your first thought isn't "lol stupid dreger" then you can probably figure out what he meant