Jared Bednar & Co. Discussion Thread

[expatriatedtexan]

It's Monday. Why aren't the papers filled?

Because CMac signed Bednar through 2026-27.

 

[Balthazar]

DeBoer did nothing.

Makar was injured and/or forgot how to hockey.

Next!

Also he's tired and needs surgery.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

Bednar makes $4.9m per season.

That’s $9.8m in one lump sum to fire him.

I r l33t @ maffs.

 

[Bender]

Coaching:

- Fire Bednar. Fire his assistants Bennett, Pratt, Parkkila.

- Hire Coach Q. Hire Tanguay(PP) and Foote(PK) as assistants. New goalie coach, too.

UFAs:

- Nelson can walk. This failed miserably.

- Lindgren can walk. Cannot play at our pace and will be heavily overpaid as a 27 year old UFA.

- Kiviranta can go. Will probably want decent money for an almost 20 goal season. Didn’t do shit in the playoffs. We have better PKers.

- Vesey, EJ… see you later.

- Drouin should be brought back. 2 x $2.5m. Sucked in the playoffs but is a cheap top 6 forward for the regular season. Can try to upgrade on him at the deadline as needed.

RFAs:

- Malinski back. 2 x $2m.

Trades:

- See if anybody will take Miles Wood. Don’t care if it’s for future considerations or anything. Maybe a team like Chicago, Islanders, Anaheim or something likes his speed and physicality. Add a pick to him if need be to dump him.

———

Drouin - MacKinnon - Nichushkin
Landeskog - Necas - Lehkonen
Colton - Coyle - ???
Kelly - Drury - O’Connor
???

Toews - Makar
Girard - Manson
Middleton/Aamodt - Malinski
Aamodt/Middleton

Blackwood
Wedgewood

Cap Space: $3.5m

Sign a RW and a depth forward(or Ivan/Prishy).

Figure out the rest(LW + LD upgrades) at the trade deadline.

I like a lot of what you're suggesting... especially with the coaching staff.

I do wonder though, if we are firing Bednar and company - are we still playing at that 'pace' ??

So many potential acquisitions of solid players that were skipped over because of the 'inability' to play with this all-important 'pace'...

My hope is that this is a thing of the past and that we would acquire good players because they are good and you play them to their strengths - not force them into some sort of pre-determined role.

This would make me mentally and emotionally check out for the entire next season. Without a doubt.

I couldn’t care less if we finish 1st overall in the regular season. All I would be expecting is another loss to Daddy DeBoer and the Stars.

Agree 100% and I think I would be that way too. Not only that but I also believe that if they make the mistake of keeping this coaching staff intact - I believe the team will struggle to make the playoffs and they'll end up firing them in-season anyways. I've seen it before - when players lose confidence in who's leading them - it goes to shit.

He’s fine as a 3rd line winger and I’d like to see him under a different coach with a different game plan. He’s not a fit for Bednar and never has been.

Agreed. Ross Colton is supposed to be a 3rd liner PLUS in my opinion - and we acquired him because he's such a pain in the ass to play against or he was at least.

I’m not that fond of him either but there really aren’t any other alternatives with how much we spent on him.

1. Re-sign Nelson
2. Pray Bennett goes to UFA and wants to come here
3. Try Necas at center
4. Spend what little we have left in the cubbard to trade for another center

You say that as if it's an automatic. That guy's body language did not look to me like a player who was excited to be in Denver.

In any case, unless they change the coaching staff and upgrade to a strong experienced coach, I cannot see Brock Nelson wanting to sign with the Avs. He's not signing a multi-year contract to get practically ZERO PP time.

 

[Balthazar]

Bednar makes $4.9m per season.

That’s $9.8m in one lump sum to fire him.

I r l33t @ maffs.

I'm pretty sure they get paid periodically as opposed to a lump sum. If a team hires him they can void the Avs contract and they no longer have to pay him for the remaining months.

It's better to fire him early so the chances of him getting an offer somewhere else are higher.

 

[Foppa2118]

While you look at Makar not performing, there are people working very hard to prevent him from performing.

Here's an interesting quote that may explain a few things:

Every team gameplans for Nate and Cale. Both had plenty of time and space with the puck to make plays. Nate had 7 goals in 7 games. Makar had plenty of great chances, just didn't score.

DeBoer didn't shut down either of them, or the Avs team as a whole.

Here's another quote from DeBoer.

"Every one's different. So, my record and.....you know honestly, you know, Jared Bednar and I are not gonna have a big impact on this game. The players are gonna decide that. Both teams know each other, it's who goes out and executes and gets big games from the right guys."

Played out exactly like that.

 

[Balthazar]

Here's another quote from DeBoer.

"Every one's different. So, my record and.....you know honestly, you know, Jared Bednar and I are not gonna have a big impact on this game. The players are gonna decide that. Both teams know each other, it's who goes out and executes and gets big games from the right guys."

Come on man. He wasn't going to say that he knows how to counter Jared's only gameplan, that he has done it many times before and that he can do it even with a significantly inferior team on paper.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I don't believe what the Avs did in March is terribly relevant.

Dallas lost their last 7 games of the regular season or something. Then lost their best forward, to go along with their best defenseman (one of the half dozen best in the world) being out. How relevant was it?

The Avs had weeks to prepare for Dallas, just like the Dallas had weeks to prepare for the Avs. Dallas seemed entirely prepared for Colorado's special teams, and entirely prepared to play close 3rd periods and overtimes in the playoffs.

Colorado? Not so much - in either case.

In the end, I think there's plenty of responsibility to be planted at the feet of players, coaches, and GM. No one is clean here. But hypothetically, if I was forced with a gun to my head, to pinpoint one single person who was most responsible? I wouldn't choose either Bednar or CMac.

I would choose Cale Makar.

You're not wrong.

In fact, you calling out the need to trade Sakic back in the day is why I have been so hesitent to want to keep this core together for much longer. There is something to be said for a story that has run its course. Once the story has been told, it's time to turn the page.

So... has this Avs core's story been told? Or does it have another chapter? If it does have an epilogue... how anxious are you to have Jared Bednar pen it?

Cale was absolutely the main player who lost us the series. He honestly better be f***ing hurt. An absolutely horrendous playoffs for him. He should be embarrassed. And I better see a man possessed next year and an unstoppable force in the playoffs. He is supposed to be the best dman on the planet, and he played like some scrub 2nd pairing guy.

For that matter I think the whole team needs to take a look in the mirror and reevaluate how they train in the off-season. I really feel that the guys have been taking it light in the off-season. Even 29 admitted he didn't go as hard this last off-season.

This team needed this wakeup call. It's been very lackadaisical since they won the Cup. The regular season it looks like they can't be bothered many nights, the playoffs have been terrible, throwing away very winnable series.

I'm not saying they need a mission 16W type rally cry, but they absolutely need to play with a purpose and play like a team that gives a f***. We haven't played with a purpose since 22.

Hey buddy... can I get you to swap avatars? Think this one is more fitting of you...

 

[Foppa2118]

Come on man. He wasn't going to say that he knows how to counter Jared's only gameplan, that he has done it many times before and that he can do it even with a significantly inferior team on paper.

He didn't counter Jared's gameplan, if the Avs dominated at 5v5 the whole series.

If you want to say the Avs need a new voice, or Bednar may have contributed to the series loss by overplaying his stars, not practicing, being stubborn with his line combos, not screaming at them to keep them focused, I can understand that argument, even though we're just speculating.

But there is literally NO argument whatsoever that DeBoer outcoached Bednar this series, just because the Stars won, and the Avs lost. Everything disproves that.

If Bednar's team outplayed DeBoers, than he actually is the one that outcoached DeBoer with his gameplan. You can't say DeBoer outcoached Bednar, when his team clearly played worse.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. The players are always the ones that should get most of the credit and blame for wins and losses IMO. They're the ones that have to do it.

 

[ABasin]

I personally put that more on the players, because they have more responsibly for their individual mental preparation.

Overplaying stars, not practicing, and perhaps not communicating as intensely enough to make sure they're focused, may or may not have been a contributing factor though. Again, hard to tell.

Not buying that this time around.

 

[Balthazar]

He didn't counter Jared's gameplan, if the Avs dominated at 5v5 the whole series.

If you want to say the Avs need a new voice, or Bednar may have contributed to the series loss by overplaying his stars, not practicing, being stubborn with his line combos, not screaming at them to keep them focused, I can understand that argument, even though we're just speculating.

But there is literally NO argument whatsoever that DeBoer outcoached Bednar, just because the Stars won, and the Avs lost. Everything disproves that.

If Bednar's team outplayed DeBoers, than he actually is the one that outcoached DeBoer with his gameplan. You can't say DeBoer outcoached Bednar, when his team clearly played worse.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. The players are always the ones that should get most of the credit and blame for wins and losses. They're the ones that have to do it.

You keep bringing back 5v5, are PP and PK not part of coaching?

If you have the bigger army with the best weapons and you lose the war, is it on the soldiers?

 

[cinchronicity]

Of course. Pre Cup, the Avs were not the better teams in most loses. They had a few holes on the roster, and they hadn't matured enough to win yet. Now though, they have a team that can win most years.

You need to have a good explanation for "why" a team or coach was better than the Avs. Not just one coach with three different teams, over the course of a decade, with very different teams, and situations.

That's nowhere near enough to believe DeBoer outreached Bednar again, when the Avs dominated at 5v5, and all the analytics support it.

It's very obvious IMO that the Avs just threw this one away. Whatever you think about Dallas or DeBoer, it wasn't enough to prevent themselves from being dominated almost every game at 5v5.

MacKinnon migth be the most emotional player in the NHL. He's just saying how he felt minutes after losing a heartbreaker. His comments about not being sure what to do mean nothing.

While I disagree with most things you say, I have great respect that you support your hypotheses with cogent thoughts and analytics. But once per post, a sentence like the bolded one comes up. The Avs dominated at 5 v 5? In a Game 7, against a team without their best defenseman, the Avs went scoreless the entire game at 5 v 5. LOC got a shorty, and Mack snuck off the bench unseen on a delayed penalty to make it 6 v 5 with Nate on a breakaway. Being held scoreless is not dominating 5 v 5, regardless of what fancy stats have to say.

When the Avs were good on the PP, it was 100% of the time due to superhuman plays, not by tactics. For years, the Avs powerplay has been predictable. Maybe in the regular season they make up for the awful coaching. But in a 7 game series, coaching is waaaaayyyy more important than in the regular season, and Bednar brought nothing to the PP picnic. When the Avs were 'good' on the PK, I had to stretch my glutes every game since I was clenching my asshole so much. The PK was far too passive, allowing teams to cycle endlessly. It also made it hell for players to get a puck and clear the zone, meaning that Makar and Toews were out there way longer than they should have been - especially considering how much time they played 5 v 5.

I taught statistics at the collegiate level. Stats can be interpreted to mean just about anything you want. Sometimes, the eye-test is more valuable, and my eyes indicate that better coaching would have given the players a better chance to win. Adjusting strategy would have given the chance to win. Slightly altering the run and gun would have made the Avs less predictable and given them a better chance. So I have to ask, regarding all the fancy stats: What are your underlying assumptions? What did Bednar do which gave the Avs more high-danger chances? What part of the predictable, non-cycling offense was responsible for higher SOG?

It just strikes me as odd when the players get blamed for not scoring, yet they do not get credit for the super-human effort required to have a fancy stat advantage. Getting back to stats again, the first lecture of every stat class identifies the difference between correlation and causation. The Avs won the fancy stats race every single day that President Trump issued an executive order. That is correlation, since one had nothing to do with the other. I pee every time I drink 10 beers. THAT is causation. Just because the Avs sometimes have great fancy stats does not mean that Bednar had any direct influence.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Every team gameplans for Nate and Cale. Both had plenty of time and space with the puck to make plays. Nate had 7 goals in 7 games. Makar had plenty of great chances, just didn't score.

DeBoer didn't shut down either of them, or the Avs team as a whole.

Here's another quote from DeBoer.

"Every one's different. So, my record and.....you know honestly, you know, Jared Bednar and I are not gonna have a big impact on this game. The players are gonna decide that. Both teams know each other, it's who goes out and executes and gets big games from the right guys."

Played out exactly like that.

I would do dirty things to have this man be our next HC.

He knows when to play the refs. He knows when to play the other coach. And he ABSOULTELY gives his PLAYERS the credit when things work out.

 

[Foppa2118]

You keep bringing back 5v5, are PP and PK not part of coaching?

If you have the bigger army with the best weapons and you lose the war, is it on the soldiers?

Sure it's part of it.

Is coaching not responsible for the PP being 1st in the NHL the last 33 games, and the PK being 4th in the NHL the last 60 games, including a 40 game stretch where they were tied for 1st?

Respectfully Balth, you're just looking for anything that supports your view on this, and discarding anything that goes against it.

I say we need to have an explanation for how and why DeBoer outcoached Bednar to believe that, other than wins and losses, and you respond with a quote from DeBoer saying he game plans for Nate and Cale and cite that as an example of outcoaching Bednar.

I say Nate had 7 goals, and Cale had a ton of scoring chances, with both having plenty of time and space to make plays, then show you a quote from DeBoer saying coaching won't play a factor, the players have to step up and make big plays, which is exactly how they lost, and you disregard it.

You say DeBoer said that, because he doesn't want to say that he knows how to counter Bednar's gameplan. I say he didn't counter the game plan when everyone agrees the Avs outplayed the Stars 5v5. Then you disregard 5v5 to focus on special teams.

You say the coaches are responsible for the special teams. I agree, and show you here that they were also responsible for it being among the best in the league to end the season. Did the coaches not show they can teach good special teams? Do the players not have any blame for being unable to execute like they did before?

Three different DeBoer teams, over a long period of time, in different circumstances, with different Avalanche teams, have edged out the Avs in the playoffs and won series. Bednar's Avs are also 8-3 against DeBoer's Stars, and 6-5 against his Knights in the regular season, and have dominated them at times, including big games like the last regular season game for home ice, and Game 4, along with other times during the series, and in the past. How does DeBoer forget how to out coach Bednar so often, if this is the reason for the loss, and not the players?

I acknowledge there are multiple things that Bednar could have done to contribute to this loss. They're just not tactical or gameplan reasons. They relate to the team's inability to stay focused.

Game 2 - Did the coach tell Manson to do some kind of flying cross check at the blueline and take himself totally out of the play on the PK to set up the pass that tied it 1-1? Did the coach tell Girard to screen his goalie and let the shot go through his feet instead of blocking it to make it 2-1? Did the coach tell Girard to turn the puck over on the clearing attempt off the glass? Did the coach tell Blackwood to stand up with the puck in his feet so they could shoot it five hole and tie it again 3-3? Did the coach tell Wood to turn the puck over at the blueline with the long OT change, and then skate into the corner after jumping over his defenseman's head for the GWG in OT?

Game 3 - Did the coach tell Blackwell to back into Nate who was stationary with his stick on the ice and fall, and the refs to fall for it to setup the tying 1-1 goal halfway through the 3rd period? Did the coach tell Val and Makar to get switched up, and Cale to try to block a shot up top on the PK where he's not comfortable, on the GWG in OT?

Game 5 - Did the coach make the puck take a crazy bounce in the opening seconds? Did the coach tell Blackwood to not seal the post and leave space for the puck to go in and make it 1-0? Did the coach make the puck go off the blocker, up in the air, and off Blackwood's back into the net to end the first period down 2-0? Did the coach tell Manson to put a weak low percentage shot on net from the goal line that could get kicked out, with him deep, and nobody covering? Did the coach tell Girard to let the puck go between his feet again, when his only job is to block the pass, on the 2 on 1 that put them down 3-0? Did the coach tell Makar not to block the door step pass to the only guy he had to cover to make it 4-2? Did the coach tell Toews to try to deflect a point shot in the D zone, instead of defending Marchment, or tying up his stick to make it 5-2?

Game 7 - Did the coach interfere with Lehky and Lindgren to give Mikko a wide open slot goal to make it 2-1? Did the coach tell Makar to break his stick, and then stick his leg out to take a penalty, instead of just staying on his feet and playing the body? Did the coach tell Lindgren to spin around in a circle and let Mikko skate in all alone for a wrap around on their PP? Did the coach tell Girard to make sure the puck goes off his skate on the wraparound to make it 2-2? Did the coach tell the ref to call Drury for a hold that goes uncalled every game in the playoffs? Did the coach tell Toews and Coyle to lackadaisically try to block the doorstep pass they've used all series on the biggest PK of the year to make it 3-2 Stars?

Did the coach tell Nelson to suck? Did the coach tell Val to stop hounding pucks? Did the coach tell Lehky to be snakebit? Did the coach tell Drouin to (likely) get injured? Did the coach tell Marty to shoot half as many pucks as he did in the regular season? Did the coach tell Coyle to start making turnovers and forget how to defend? Did the coach tell Toews and Lindgren to stop playing defense? Did the coach tell Makar to miss the net and shoot into the glove all series?

These were the biggest plays, and reasons for the losses, and none of it had to do with coaching.

Why do the players get to escape the blame for this loss, when they didn't lose because they got outplayed, they lost because they didn't make the big plays in big moments offensively, and made too many mistakes in big moments defensively?

 

[niwotsblessing]

While I disagree with most things you say, I have great respect that you support your hypotheses with cogent thoughts and analytics. But once per post, a sentence like the bolded one comes up. The Avs dominated at 5 v 5? In a Game 7, against a team without their best defenseman, the Avs went scoreless the entire game at 5 v 5. LOC got a shorty, and Mack snuck off the bench unseen on a delayed penalty to make it 6 v 5 with Nate on a breakaway. Being held scoreless is not dominating 5 v 5, regardless of what fancy stats have to say.

When the Avs were good on the PP, it was 100% of the time due to superhuman plays, not by tactics. For years, the Avs powerplay has been predictable. Maybe in the regular season they make up for the awful coaching. But in a 7 game series, coaching is waaaaayyyy more important than in the regular season, and Bednar brought nothing to the PP picnic. When the Avs were 'good' on the PK, I had to stretch my glutes every game since I was clenching my asshole so much. The PK was far too passive, allowing teams to cycle endlessly. It also made it hell for players to get a puck and clear the zone, meaning that Makar and Toews were out there way longer than they should have been - especially considering how much time they played 5 v 5.

I taught statistics at the collegiate level. Stats can be interpreted to mean just about anything you want. Sometimes, the eye-test is more valuable, and my eyes indicate that better coaching would have given the players a better chance to win. Adjusting strategy would have given the chance to win. Slightly altering the run and gun would have made the Avs less predictable and given them a better chance. So I have to ask, regarding all the fancy stats: What are your underlying assumptions? What did Bednar do which gave the Avs more high-danger chances? What part of the predictable, non-cycling offense was responsible for higher SOG?

It just strikes me as odd when the players get blamed for not scoring, yet they do not get credit for the super-human effort required to have a fancy stat advantage. Getting back to stats again, the first lecture of every stat class identifies the difference between correlation and causation. The Avs won the fancy stats race every single day that President Trump issued an executive order. That is correlation, since one had nothing to do with the other. I pee every time I drink 10 beers. THAT is causation. Just because the Avs sometimes have great fancy stats does not mean that Bednar had any direct influence.

Two stats matter: final score of the game, and 4 wins in a series.

 

[Balthazar]

If they bring him back, which seems likely at this point, I just don’t see any realistic path to greater success next season.

It’ll feel like our window has closed.

 

[wayninja]

Team just needs time to gel

 

[avsfan2189]

the only thing i will give Bednar some credit for is he SAID all the right things.

he SAID the key will be to not stay perimeter (aka you gotta get into the danger areas) and to NOT pass up on shots

the avs did the opposite for the most part stayed perimter and passed up on lots of shots (especially the pp).

there was a disconnect and I'm not entirely sure why.

 

[RoyIsALegend]

the only thing i will give Bednar some credit for is he SAID all the right things.

he SAID the key will be to not stay perimeter (aka you gotta get into the danger areas) and to NOT pass up on shots

the avs did the opposite for the most part stayed perimter and passed up on lots of shots (especially the pp).

there was a disconnect and I'm not entirely sure why.

Maybe because we don’t practice lol

Even during this series, we held joke optional practices while the Stars had full team mandatory practices on the same day.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I mean, Bednar does run some guys into the ground and so he tries to make up for it by not making them skate for practices. But that just leads to a decrease in skill, lack of execution and apparently loads of defensive breakdowns.

 

[Pokecheque]

Maybe because we don’t practice lol

Even during this series, we held joke optional practices while the Stars had full team mandatory practices on the same day.

Agreed on this, not holding practices was a huge reason IMO why the power play failed. You can hold all the impromptu video sessions you want, you have to get out on the ice to work on stuff properly.

With all the disparate parts this team brought on between the goalie/Mikko trades and the deadline, there should have been plenty of practices, but instead Bednar desperately tried to get people rest, thinking they'd be a little more refreshed/healed up. Frankly I think that's a little overrated. Drouin and Manson got all kinds of rest during the 4 nations break and made no progress whatsoever.

 

[Muffin]

I can't believe we didn't try Necas away from MacKinnon the entire series. Necas was a ghost all series and did not click with MacKinnon at all. Remember when we went on that winning stream after putting him with Nelson?

 

[Avs_19]

CMac says Bennett is out.

 

[The Merchant]

It's even more clear now that it's going to take a direct order from Josh Kroenke for them to part with either CMac or Bednar.

 

[GeoRox89]

Underwhelming news. Rangers made the smart choice locking up Sullivan before we played game 7. Wonder if this plays out differently if he’s available