Confirmed with Link: Jakub Voracek Signs 8-year/$66M Extension ($8.25AAV)

[Cyborg LeClair]

Tarasenko 43 goals, 37 assists, 80 points, +23
Voracek 22 goals, 59 assists, 81 points, +1

Tarasenko 23 years old, $7.50AAV/8 years
Voracek 26 years old, $8.25AAV/8 years

Why did you include Tarasenko's playoff stats? Oh that's right, you have an agenda

 

[Rebels57]

Tarasenko 43 goals, 37 assists, 80 points, +23
Voracek 22 goals, 59 assists, 81 points, +1

Tarasenko 23 years old, $7.50AAV/8 years
Voracek 26 years old, $8.25AAV/8 years

See: Last 3 years

 

[RR10*]

Why did you include Tarasenko's playoff stats? Oh that's right, you have an agenda

Because Tarasenko only had 77 regular season games. The 6 playoff games makes it like a full season (also a bit harder in playoffs).

 

[RR10*]

ROR is the one contract in that group I can't agree with.

Why would I? Tarasenko is younger and has only played 2 full seasons. It's lame to count his rookie season. If you did the same with Giroux at that age and looked back 3 seasons Tarasenko would beat him. It shows how lame it is to look that way into things. And btw Tarasenko played small minutes years back, like 13-14 mins/game and still produced solid.

Tarasenkos contract is better. It's much easier to produce points in east. Doubt Voracek would have put up 43 goals and 80 pts in the freaking central division, facing Chicago, Nashville, Dallas, Minnesota, Colorado, Winnipeg day in and day out. You don't have easy competition like Carolina, Columbus, Devils.

 

[RR10*]

Another thing, Giroux centers Voracek while Lehtera centers Tarasenko not even fair.

Tarasenko would have had great numbers playing with Giroux while I have a hard time seeing Voracek produce that much with the rookie finn Lehtera centering him.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

It's already been said but I guess we'll try it again, comparing an RFA contract to a UFA is incredibly stupid.

 

[Flyerss]

Another thing, Giroux centers Voracek while Lehtera centers Tarasenko not even fair.

Tarasenko would have had great numbers playing with Giroux while I have a hard time seeing Voracek produce that much with the rookie finn Lehtera centering him.

and Jaden Schwartz from the Left being backed up by Shattenkirk and Pietrangelo, what do you know about fair

 

[Beef Invictus]

Why would I? Tarasenko is younger and has only played 2 full seasons. It's lame to count his rookie season. If you did the same with Giroux at that age and looked back 3 seasons Tarasenko would beat him. It shows how lame it is to look that way into things. And btw Tarasenko played small minutes years back, like 13-14 mins/game and still produced solid.

Tarasenkos contract is better. It's much easier to produce points in east. Doubt Voracek would have put up 43 goals and 80 pts in the freaking central division, facing Chicago, Nashville, Dallas, Minnesota, Colorado, Winnipeg day in and day out. You don't have easy competition like Carolina, Columbus, Devils.

I don't have the slightest idea why this is directed at me

 

[Cyborg LeClair]

Because Tarasenko only had 77 regular season games. The 6 playoff games makes it like a full season (also a bit harder in playoffs).

So, do you refer to Giroux's 2012 season as a 107 point season because he only played 77 regular season games and then include the six game series against the Pens where he scored 14 points? (also a bit harder in playoffs)

 

[King Forsberg]

I don't have the slightest idea why this is directed at me

I don't have the slightest idea as to why a Blues fan came into the Flyers forum to start an argument.

 

[Appleyard]

It's much easier to produce points in east. Doubt Voracek would have put up 43 goals and 80 pts in the freaking central division, facing Chicago, Nashville, Dallas, Minnesota, Colorado, Winnipeg day in and day out. You don't have easy competition like Carolina, Columbus, Devils.

Apart from the fact it is not any easier to produce points in the east... it is a fallacy and there is no evidence to support this in any way, when you average out top players production vs east and west there is no difference, and individually they generally have minimal (ie 0.05 PPG or less difference) variation across their careers.

I mean, look at his stats vs Metro and Central.

Tarasenko career vs Metro: 0.81 PPG
Tarasenko career vs Central: 0.82 PPG

Guess if he played in the Metro he would have ~1 less point a year!

 

[Curufinwe]

So, do you refer to Giroux's 2012 season as a 107 point season because he only played 77 regular season games and then include the six game series against the Pens where he scored 14 points? (also a bit harder in playoffs)

Let's all try doing that on the main boards and see how it goes.

 

[Curufinwe]

It's much easier to produce points in east.

Factually incorrect. Please don't come over here just to waste our time with this type of nonsense.

 

[Striiker]

Tarasenkos contract is better. It's much easier to produce points in east. Doubt Voracek would have put up 43 goals and 80 pts in the freaking central division, facing Chicago, Nashville, Dallas, Minnesota, Colorado, Winnipeg day in and day out. You don't have easy competition like Carolina, Columbus, Devils.

I wonder how long this myth will persist before people educate themselves?

 

[Curufinwe]

Voracek scored at a higher rate than Tarasenko in their 23 year old NHL seasons.

http://www.quanthockey.com/hockey-stats/en/profile.php?player=6771
http://www.quanthockey.com/hockey-stats/en/profile.php?player=7759

 

[JayRosehillMVP]

Didn't even realize he included playoff stats. That's rich

 

[Rebels57]

I think ignoring this guy is the best course of action at this point..

 

[RR10*]

Voracek scored at a higher rate than Tarasenko in their 23 year old NHL seasons.

http://www.quanthockey.com/hockey-stats/en/profile.php?player=6771
http://www.quanthockey.com/hockey-stats/en/profile.php?player=7759

Nope. 46 pts in 48 games is a short sample. It would probably get worse over 82 games. Why I bring up Tarasenkos 6 playoff games is because they make it a full season (well 83 games).

Last 2 seasons:

Tarasenko 153 games, 127 points, 68 goals , 59 assists, +44
Voracek 171 games, 147 points, 47 goals , 100 assists, +11

And I can bet my right hand that Voracek played bigger minutes! Tarasenko only played about 13-14 mins/game before last season and not much on the PP. Add another 5-6 mins/game + PP-time and he'll have 20 more points. Tarasenko got centered by grinder Sobotka and Lehtera while Voracek played with Giroux.

 

[RR10*]

Apart from the fact it is not any easier to produce points in the east... it is a fallacy and there is no evidence to support this in any way, when you average out top players production vs east and west there is no difference, and individually they generally have minimal (ie 0.05 PPG or less difference) variation across their careers.

I mean, look at his stats vs Metro and Central.

Tarasenko career vs Metro: 0.81 PPG
Tarasenko career vs Central: 0.82 PPG

Guess if he played in the Metro he would have ~1 less point a year!

Lol career stats for a 23 y old nice one. It's harder to produce against the top central teams day in and day out compared to facing some Metro team now and than. Let Tarasenko get centered by Giroux and play on a daily basis against Carolina, Columbus, Devils, Islanders, Capitals and he would tear them apart. Wonder how Voracek would have produced with Sobotka/Lehtera as his centers playing against Chicago, Nashville, Dallas, Minnesota, Colorado, Winnipeg all the time. 55 points, 15 goals, 40 assists is what I'd give him.

 

[Striiker]

I wonder if he realizes that, in addition to using the idiotic and false "but it's harder to score in the west" argument, that he only named two bad East teams on that little list?

It'd be like me saying it's so much easier to score against Western teams because they get to play against Phoenix, Edmonton, Minnesota, St. Louis, and Colorado.

This guy is an advanced form of clueless. Maybe he's here because he was shunned from the Blues board.

 

[Curufinwe]

Nope. 46 pts in 48 games is a short sample. It would probably get worse over 82 games. Why I bring up Tarasenkos 6 playoff games is because they make it a full season (well 83 games).

Last 2 seasons:

Tarasenko 153 games, 127 points, 68 goals , 59 assists, +44
Voracek 171 games, 147 points, 47 goals , 100 assists, +11

So Voracek outscored him in total points and in points per game over the past two seasons even in you include playoffs, and he was a UFA which is why he got more money. Players don't get paid based on their plus minus stats.

 

[kudymen]

Lol career stats for a 23 y old nice one. It's harder to produce against the top central teams day in and day out compared to facing some Metro team now and than. Let Tarasenko get centered by Giroux and play on a daily basis against Carolina, Columbus, Devils, Islanders, Capitals and he would tear them apart. Wonder how Voracek would have produced with Sobotka/Lehtera as his centers playing against Chicago, Nashville, Dallas, Minnesota, Colorado, Winnipeg all the time. 55 points, 15 goals, 40 assists is what I'd give him.

So you think it will be productive to throw away hard, known facts because you have some soft assumptions, which you are also unable to prove (oh, sorry, also one hard stat... which has been intentionally made misleading, but hey, whatever helps you sleep at night)? Perfect.

 

[Appleyard]

Lol career stats for a 23 y old nice one. It's harder to produce against the top central teams day in and day out compared to facing some Metro team now and than. Let Tarasenko get centered by Giroux and play on a daily basis against Carolina, Columbus, Devils, Islanders, Capitals and he would tear them apart. Wonder how Voracek would have produced with Sobotka/Lehtera as his centers playing against Chicago, Nashville, Dallas, Minnesota, Colorado, Winnipeg all the time. 55 points, 15 goals, 40 assists is what I'd give him.

So we should ignore cold hard facts over your fantasies? It is fact that the rates of scoring across a collection of top scorers in the NHL over thousands of combined games have very similar averaged scoring rates vs east and west.

An out of shape, 20 year old Voracek playing 3 minutes less a night, in the middle six (7th most EV TOI amongst CBJ forwards) and 2nd PP unit (6th most PP TOI amongst CBJ forwards), than he now does on a Western Conference Columbus team on a line with 2/3 of Umberger, Brassard and Torres most of the year, and produced at ~that rate... on a Columbus team that had the 3rd least goals in the West and were the 3rd worst team in the league.

So Voracek, 5 years older, twice as fit, and playing on a far better St. Louis team with one of the best puck-moving Ds in the NHL, superior linemates, 1st PP minutes, a potent EV offense and more minutes at EV would not get a boost in production?

Yep... that makes sense.

 

[Tripod]

Nope. 46 pts in 48 games is a short sample. It would probably get worse over 82 games. Why I bring up Tarasenkos 6 playoff games is because they make it a full season (well 83 games).

Last 2 seasons:

Tarasenko 153 games, 127 points, 68 goals , 59 assists, +44
Voracek 171 games, 147 points, 47 goals , 100 assists, +11

And I can bet my right hand that Voracek played bigger minutes! Tarasenko only played about 13-14 mins/game before last season and not much on the PP. Add another 5-6 mins/game + PP-time and he'll have 20 more points. Tarasenko got centered by grinder Sobotka and Lehtera while Voracek played with Giroux.

How hard is it to go look?

VT played over 15 minutes...so not 13/14 like you suggest.

All your stats show is that Voracek got 20 more points in 18 more games. That's all. Everything else you are talking about is guesses. You talk about having Giroux as a linemate. Sure. That helps. But the VT wasn't getting top dmen matching up against him either like Voracek was due to playing on the top line.

And again, what you are 100% ignoring and it makes you look petty, is that Jake was going to be a UFA next summer whereas VT was a RFA. Big difference.

Oh...and VT makes his 7.5 milion this year. We still have Voracek at 4.25 million this year. Guess you are WAY overpaying this year.

 

[RR10*]

So we should ignore cold hard facts over your fantasies? It is fact that the rates of scoring across a collection of top scorers in the NHL over thousands of combined games have very similar averaged scoring rates vs east and west.

An out of shape, 20 year old Voracek playing 3 minutes less a night, in the middle six (7th most EV TOI amongst CBJ forwards) and 2nd PP unit (6th most PP TOI amongst CBJ forwards), than he now does on a Western Conference Columbus team on a line with 2/3 of Umberger, Brassard and Torres most of the year, and produced at ~that rate... on a Columbus team that had the 3rd least goals in the West and were the 3rd worst team in the league.

So Voracek, 5 years older, twice as fit, and playing on a far better St. Louis team with one of the best puck-moving Ds in the NHL, superior linemates, 1st PP minutes, a potent EV offense and more minutes at EV would not get a boost in production?

Yep... that makes sense.

Tarasenko didn't play regularly on the PP until last season. He was centered by freaking Sobotka often playing on the 2nd and 3rd line with 14 mins/game. Last season he was centered by a rookie and on the toughest division and still managed to do better numbers than Voracek. I don't care about Voraceks 1 more point, he got brutally outscored with 43 goals against Voraceks 22 and a +23 compared to Voraceks +1. That's not even close. He did all that with $1,750,000 compared to Voraceks $4,250,000.