Player Discussion Jake Sanderson (D) PART 3

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Again, I will never judge Sanderson for as long as Hamonic is playing with him.

Sanderson is carrying an elephant and still doing a great job--all things considered.

 

[Sting]

The difference between Sanderson alongside Zub and Hamonic is almost like watching two different players. It's wild.

He may have played himself out of a spot on the USA roster with this last stretch too. Completely unfair - but the USA brass have a tough decision to make and a lot of people to fill that spot.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Do all teams have 6 strong/good defenders in their lineup? Or, is it more typical to have a weaker, not so good defender on the 3rd pair on most teams?

I get the appeal of finding a whipping post, but I think we have more than one issue with just one player.

 

[TheNewEra]

Do all teams have 6 strong/good defenders in their lineup? Or, is it more typical to have a weaker, not so good defender on the 3rd pair on most teams?

I get the appeal of finding a whipping post, but I think we have more than one issue with just one player.

most teams usually dont have their best defender play with their worst defender. Even if you consider the hate he is getting to be unreasonable

also the hate he is getting isnt unreasonable. https://www.reddit.com/r/BottomLeftHamonic/

unless the belief is that sanderson suddenly got really bad there is a common factor

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Alledged superstar d man and prime PP we had…38 points last year

And he was playing with zub lol.

He is what he is. Hopefully yakemchuk is an offensive juggernaut

 

[bicboi64]

Only way the Sanderson-Hamonic pairing will work going forwad is if Sandy developed McDavid/MacKinnon level acceleration and can skate from one end of the ice to the other.

Green is killing Sandy here. Put JBD with Sandy.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Again, I will never judge Sanderson for as long as Hamonic is playing with him.

Sanderson is carrying an elephant and still doing a great job--all things considered.

He had zub last year…. And PP1 ….. 38 points

 

[TheNewEra]

Alledged superstar d man and prime PP we had…38 points last year

And he was playing with zub lol.

He is what he is. Hopefully yakemchuk is an offensive juggernaut

i cant tell if your being serious here, second year in the league and he got 38 points

hes on pace for 54 points now

He was never going to be a karlsson type point producer, but 50 point production isnt out of the question for him. For reference only 20 dmen got 50 points last year.

An offensive juggernaut that could play defense is the dream. But as a team we need defense more.

 

[coladin]

Again, I will never judge Sanderson for as long as Hamonic is playing with him.

Sanderson is carrying an elephant and still doing a great job--all things considered.

There were many plays that originated on his side, or in his complete control. or on his own volition, and he was dogshit

 

[HoweHullOrr]

most teams usually dont have their best defender play with their worst defender. Even if you consider the hate he is getting to be unreasonable

also the hate he is getting isnt unreasonable. https://www.reddit.com/r/BottomLeftHamonic/

unless the belief is that sanderson suddenly got really bad there is a common factor

There is an injury that has led to Hamonic being moved up to 1st pair. I was talking about where Hamonic would play in normal circumstances. And, even then, maybe JBD (?) gets more ice time in the future and Hamonic becomes a 7D. This last sentence in this paragraph is a complete “aside” & can be removed without changing the overall point.

I am making the point that most fans don’t like at least one of their defenders and that’s usually/often a 3rd pair defender. So, there is a tendency to key or focus on that one whipping post versus taking a broader overall look at the roster and being more analytical. Using last night as just one example, we scored just one goal. That’s not going to result in many Ws, so there’s lots of other things to talk about.

You seem to have largely (or entirely perhaps) missed the points that I was making. There is much more nuance in what I posted and a very important point was in the 2nd sentence. I am quite aware of Hamonic’s stats, so not sure why there was a need to point out the obvious. Your link didn’t work btw.

Its a sticky wicket with Hamonic. He has a NMC so can’t be waived and sent to the AHL and can’t be traded without his consent. In this injury situation, they could move JBD up, and Hamonic would be 3rd pair, but there’d still be plenty of complaints.

 

[TheNewEra]

There is an injury that has led to Hamonic being moved up to 1st pair. I was talking about where Hamonic would play in normal circumstances. And, even then, maybe JBD (?) gets more ice time in the future and Hamonic becomes a 7D.

I am making the point that most fans don’t like at least one of their defenders and that’s usually/often a 3rd pair defender. So, there is a tendency to key or focus on that one whipping post versus taking a broader overall look at the roster and being more analytical.

You seem to have largely (or entirely perhaps) missed the points that I was making. There is much more nuance in what I posted and a very important point was in the 2nd sentence. I am quite aware of Hamonic’s stats, so not sure why there was a need to point out the obvious. Your link didn’t work btw.

Its a sticky wicket with Hamonic. He has a NMC so can’t be waived and sent to the AHL and can’t be traded without his consent.

The mistakes were happening in normal circumstances and obviously have been amplified with him being on the top pairing and getting more minutes

but it is worth noting that Kleven's play has improved substantially and statistically without Hamonic and Sanderson has gone on the opposite end.

You are calling him a third pairing guy, i am saying he isnt even that. The difference between him and JBD is insane.

There are other issues the team needs to look at but having a consistent negative on the ice for 12 to 20 minutes per game isnt helping anyone.

I agree its a sticky situation with Hamonic (shout out dorion smh) but the right decision is for him to be the 7th/8th dman. The issue i have is this team after training camp said oh he deserves a regular spot. I truly believe the first real test for green is if he actually sits him. At the same time with the age and style that hamonic plays i do think that if he got more rest he might actually do better

*not sure why the link didnt work. Its a reddit forum thats titled bottom left hamonic which was started a week or so into the season which just shows him consistently at the negative end of the impact on game spectrum

 

[HoweHullOrr]

The mistakes were happening in normal circumstances and obviously have been amplified with him being on the top pairing and getting more minutes

but it is worth noting that Kleven's play has improved substantially and statistically without Hamonic and Sanderson has gone on the opposite end.

You are calling him a third pairing guy, i am saying he isnt even that. The difference between him and JBD is insane.

There are other issues the team needs to look at but having a consistent negative on the ice for 12 to 20 minutes per game isnt helping anyone.

I agree its a sticky situation with Hamonic (shout out dorion smh) but the right decision is for him to be the 7th/8th dman. The issue i have is this team after training camp said oh he deserves a regular spot. I truly believe the first real test for green is if he actually sits him. At the same time with the age and style that hamonic plays i do think that if he got more rest he might actually do better

*not sure why the link didnt work. Its a reddit forum thats titled bottom left hamonic which was started a week or so into the season which just shows him consistently at the negative end of the impact on game spectrum

I think you are reading parts of what I wrote, and ignoring other parts. It may not be your intent, but that’s what seems to be happening.

I said: "And, even then, maybe JBD (?) gets more ice time in the future and Hamonic becomes a 7D.” Its in the 1st paragraph. I just used the word “maybe” because I have no idea or control over what Green will do.

I think the whole team stunk last night and it was far more than just one or two players. And, this was a game against a division rival so it should be not hard for the team to get motivated. And, for some reason, we lose a lot when we are on the road.

When Zub gets healthy and returns, I’d be happy if they put JBD with Kleven and Hamonic sits in the pressbox (bench or where ever). Hopefully you can see that my point isn’t really to defend Hamonic. The point is there’s other things we need to improve if we want to make the playoffs. I’m hoping the goal is a divisional seed actually this year, so just barely squeaking into the playoffs as a wildcard I think is still a rather low bar.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

i cant tell if your being serious here, second year in the league and he got 38 points

hes on pace for 54 points now

He was never going to be a karlsson type point producer, but 50 point production isnt out of the question for him. For reference only 20 dmen got 50 points last year.

An offensive juggernaut that could play defense is the dream. But as a team we need defense more.

If he gets 50 points great. But let’s not have him in top 5 d men convos.

He’s a great defensive d man. Who can rack up some assists. Especially if given all the pp1 time.

This team needs more talent on the backend.

You need both. You need good defensive d men but you also need someone who can drive some play game in game out.

Not just drive. Someone who can create consistently.

 

[Beech]

i cant tell if your being serious here, second year in the league and he got 38 points

hes on pace for 54 points now

He was never going to be a karlsson type point producer, but 50 point production isnt out of the question for him. For reference only 20 dmen got 50 points last year.

An offensive juggernaut that could play defense is the dream. But as a team we need defense more.

If he gets 50 points great. But let’s not have him in top 5 d men convos.

He’s a great defensive d man. Who can rack up some assists. Especially if given all the pp1 time.

This team needs more talent on the backend.

You need both. You need good defensive d men but you also need someone who can drive some play game in game out.

Not just drive. Someone who can create consistently.

Ottawa Dmen as of now
1) Sanderson, Somewhat of a tweener. Good offensively, good defensively. Not great at either or both. Mid level physical
2) ZUB..good defense, physical, no offense.
3) Chabot..tweener, is soft and injury prone
4) Jansen..old, can not be judged
5) Klevin.. is finding his way
6) JBD.. a #6, 7, limited in all areas
7) Hamonic.. he is done

these are his team-mates!!!!!! Not easy.

Burrow.. be fair, clean up the Dcor and see.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Ottawa Dmen as of now
1) Sanderson, Somewhat of a tweener. Good offensively, good defensively. Not great at either or both. Mid level physical
2) ZUB..good defense, physical, no offense.
3) Chabot..tweener, is soft and injury prone
4) Jansen..old, can not be judged
5) Klevin.. is finding his way
6) JBD.. a #6, 7, limited in all areas
7) Hamonic.. he is done

these are his team-mates!!!!!! Not easy.

Burrow.. be fair, clean up the Dcor and see.

What do the other pairs have to do with Sanderson?

I actually am being more kind to Sanderson than you haha. I think he’s GREAT defensively.

 

[TheNewEra]

If he gets 50 points great. But let’s not have him in top 5 d men convos.

He’s a great defensive d man. Who can rack up some assists. Especially if given all the pp1 time.

This team needs more talent on the backend.

You need both. You need good defensive d men but you also need someone who can drive some play game in game out.

Not just drive. Someone who can create consistently.

if i mentioned him as a top 5 dman then thats definitely my fault

i do agree we need to hold off on that. He is probably going to end up being a defense first guy so he wont get as much hype but he still has work to do to show he is a top 20 dman in the league

 

[Micklebot]

What do the other pairs have to do with Sanderson?

I actually am being more kind to Sanderson than you haha. I think he’s GREAT defensively.

If the other pairings aren't good defensively you give more difficult deployment to Sanderson. Not sure how they've been deploying him this year, but last year he was a matchup d

 

[Beech]

What do the other pairs have to do with Sanderson?

I actually am being more kind to Sanderson than you haha. I think he’s GREAT defensively.

I just noticed the Micks answer. Pretty much as I believe.

plus add, his partner is not exactly Norris caliber. No Mark Methot to clear the track, be physical, do much of the dirty work. Yet still have enough skill to play.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

If the other pairings aren't good defensively you give more difficult deployment to Sanderson. Not sure how they've been deploying him this year, but last year he was a matchup d

That’s where he probably belongs. If him
And zub are pure matchup that’s fine.

But then we need someone somewhere on the other pairings to be offense.
Or sandy needs the offensive partner. Maybe it’s yakemchuk

I just noticed the Micks answer. Pretty much as I believe.

plus add, his partner is not exactly Norris caliber. No Mark Methot to clear the track, be physical, do much of the dirty work. Yet still have enough skill to play.

Yeah he should be shutdown.

Bigger point is we don’t go anywhere with not much coming from our back end

 

[Beech]

That’s where he probably belongs. If him
And zub are pure matchup that’s fine.

But then we need someone somewhere on the other pairings to be offense.
Or sandy needs the offensive partner. Maybe it’s yakemchuk


Yeah he should be shutdown.

Bigger point is we don’t go anywhere with not much coming from our back end

in the early 1990's, I was playing soccer in Cornwall. A guy there was an Irish ex-Pro who played DII in England in the 1970/80s. Two other players had played Select soccer in Cornwall in that time frame.

We won everything and I looked good.

In the early 80's at McGill, I played soccer with members of the Varsity team. They has come off of a Canadian Championship. One player went on to coach the Montreal Impact in the late 1990s.

We won and I looked good.


Around those times, I played on less favorable teams.. we lost and I looked bad.


You can sort of see the moral of the story. And in anticipation of your comment; Sanderson should be the Irish ex pro, or the McGill varsity team.. Yea! But it is not as easy as you think.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

in the early 1990's, I was playing soccer in Cornwall. A guy there was an Irish ex-Pro who played DII in England in the 1970/80s. Two other players had played Select soccer in Cornwall in that time frame.

We won everything and I looked good.

In the early 80's at McGill, I played soccer with members of the Varsity team. They has come off of a Canadian Championship. One player went on to coach the Montreal Impact in the late 1990s.

We won and I looked good.


Around those times, I played on less favorable teams.. we lost and I looked bad.


You can sort of see the moral of the story. And in anticipation of your comment; Sanderson should be the Irish ex pro, or the McGill varsity team.. Yea! But it is not as easy as you think.

lol I’m honestly not disparaging Sanderson. He just isn’t great offensively. Don’t think he’s that guy

 

[armani]

Ottawa Dmen as of now
1) Sanderson, Somewhat of a tweener. Good offensively, good defensively. Not great at either or both. Mid level physical
2) ZUB..good defense, physical, no offense.
3) Chabot..tweener, is soft and injury prone
4) Jansen..old, can not be judged
5) Klevin.. is finding his way
6) JBD.. a #6, 7, limited in all areas
7) Hamonic.. he is done

these are his team-mates!!!!!! Not easy.

Burrow.. be fair, clean up the Dcor and see.

Son of a Beech, think you are underrating Sanderson who is on an upward trajectory as an early 20s #1D. Zub is not devoid of offence totally but is a defensive defenceman. I agree with your other player assessments.

Sanderson would benefit from Zub. Chabot and Jensen are playing solid top-4 minutes as a pair. It’s the bottom pairing that lacks experience or sucks when Hammer is added to the equation. Kleven is a rookie and JBD is not a full time number 6.

Jake is Scott Niedermayer type, with a bit of nastiness he is trying to add to his game. Needs to develop a consistent shot from the point to be an even bigger threat during powerplays.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I think 45-60 points will be his range. He's very confident with the puck on his stick, more so than most of the team, and will get tons of opportunity, so I think he'll put up ~50 most years, but I highly doubt he ever reaches that ppg Karlsson level.

 

[BoardsofCanada]

Where Sanderson is great is his escapability. He can either skate the puck out of trouble or make a quick little pass that breaks the puck out. He isn't an elite playmaker like Makar, Quinn Hughes or Erik Karlsson. He's just an excellent two way D.

That said, he's definitely struggled over the last 3 or 4 games. Whether that's Hamonic or other reasons, who knows. Hopefully Zub back tonight restores some stability.

 

[Beech]

Son of a Beech, think you are underrating Sanderson who is on an upward trajectory as an early 20s #1D. Zub is not devoid of offence totally but is a defensive defenceman. I agree with your other player assessments.

Sanderson would benefit from Zub. Chabot and Jensen are playing solid top-4 minutes as a pair. It’s the bottom pairing that lacks experience or sucks when Hammer is added to the equation. Kleven is a rookie and JBD is not a full time number 6.

Jake is Scott Niedermayer type, with a bit of nastiness he is trying to add to his game. Needs to develop a consistent shot from the point to be an even bigger threat during powerplays.

yes, but at the moment, his game is an in-between game where I don't believe, either component is stand out.

One to three more years could see him become that Niedemeyer type (Excellent comparison by the way), but that does not help now.

And I still believe a Mark Methot type partner. He still needs someone who can contribute offensively. You need the forwards to have to chase both guys. And not just buzz by Zub. The Flaming out of Lassi Thomson really hurt.

A potential Sanderson, Yaramchuk combo could become deadly.