TSN: Jake Gardiner or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Advanced Stats
- Thread starter HarrisonFord
- Start date
Wheeler is angled to the dot by Gardiner, he doesn't randomly beer off that way.
Gardiner forces him to the outside and goes down to block the pass. Pretty common way to play a 2on1
Are you guys all stats guys? Is there any other hockey people on here? Maybe I need to split this scene. How can you all say there was nothing anyone could do?
On any 2 on 1 you have to eliminate one guy period. You absolutely can't have a 2 on 0 result from a 2 on 1. This is what is mind boggling to me with your collective thinking. Maybe this is the new computer generation and stats people talk. I dunno know.
On any 2 on 1 you have to eliminate one guy period. You absolutely can't have a 2 on 0 result from a 2 on 1. This is what is mind boggling to me with your collective thinking. Maybe this is the new computer generation and stats people talk. I dunno know.
Easy there easy what you said it not true. Gardiner stays in middle the entire time. He does not force anybody. He then falls down. Wheeler skates to dot on his own momentum after the crossover. Please do not start making things up as you go to defend someone. Gardiner TOOK no one out of that play.
Wheeler is effectively eliminated. He has a pass option and not much else.
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Nithoniniel
Registered User
It was a terrific play by Winnipeg. Whatever decision Gardiner takes, they played him into a position where he is slowed down and have to handle a puck-carrier coming with speed. He chose to try a slide to prevent the pass. Any other choice would likely be just as futile considering the execution of the offensive play. It should be a non-issue. Interestingly, that was how it was treated in media.
If there are any issues at all in that sequence, it's that he was left alone for quite some time.
If there are any issues at all in that sequence, it's that he was left alone for quite some time.
I wouldn't say it is garbage, it is only one piece of a huge puzzle though. Typically one stat(variable) affects another. Personally, stats interest me, but I have always preferred to watch the game and evaluate that way. Stats can help shed some light on some area's hard to see with just the eye.
I look at it this way. In math, 2+2 is always 4. It is an absolute. In ADV stats, 2+2 may mostly be 4, or should be 4, but sometimes it is 3.5 or 4.2. Like teams with good possession that don't win. Statistically they should, but they don't always...too many variables that can affect an outcome. That is why I see it as interesting and not absolute fact/proof, because there are no absolutes.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Purity*
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- Jan 29, 2010
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He got ****ing beat on the play. So what.
Every defensemen gets beat. Drew Doughty and Duncan Keith get beat. Clinging to one play to discredit a player is stupid anyway.
I was liking the statistical debate up until this got brought up. I'm a person who values statistical evidence over personal anecdotes.
He angles Wheeler off, it's pretty obvious especially in the behind the net replay.
If by staying in the middle you mean he doesn't outright chase Wheeler then you're right, but that would be an awful decision as it isn't an attack situation and a group of fans like you described (ex junior and pro) would clearly know that.
He doesn't "fall" either, he goes down to block the passing lane, but is short on his slide.
haha. You know what I mean though. Sometimes the stats suggest success, but it isn't there and vice versa...so there is no absolute. Absolute would eliminate outliers/exceptions to the rule.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
At least Gardiner got back to defend that 2 on 1. I'm still pondering how none of the Leafs' other 4 skaters had the anticipation/hustle to get back defensively on a rush that hardly unfolded at lightning speed. You could feel it developing with about 5 seconds remaining in the penalty seeing the Leafs still pressing 4 players forward. It's the details that are destroying the Leafs right now. Maybe some of these guys are never going to concern themselves with the details.
Oh for the love of...
He has the second best GA60RelTM. His relative numbers benefit from playing on a poor team with poor players; they also suffer from playing in a poor system- or did, at least; his relative numbers look better this year playing in a much better system.
That doesn't mean he's the second best shutdown guy in the league (he's not), but considering (in conjunction with his GA60RelTM) he's top-25 in every relative even-strength category (GFRel, CFRel, FFRel, SFRel, SCFRel, and HSCFRel) since he entered the league (among defensemen with 3000+ minutes since 2011-2012; 147 defensemen total), it does help to illustrate how good Gardiner is, and how good he has been since he entered the league.
He's a great even-strength hockey player; I'm sorry if that angers you.
Nithoniniel
Registered User
Man, some people really need some serious help with their reading comprehension and deductive skills.
Well it stands to argue that if the goal of an offensive player is to generate goals, then the goal of a defensive player is to prevent them (which Gardiner does).
Boyes is the worst on it, he's got a shot to come back, but looks to change then coasts from the blue line in
