Value of: Jake Evans

[HuGort]

Habs should be negotiating now with Evans. Get a feel if they can sign him before March 7th. If they can't sign him need to trade Evans. Can't afford to let him walk. He'd bring a good asset

 

[Habs Halifax]

Habs should be negotiating now with Evans. Get a feel if they can sign him before March 7th. If they can't sign him need to trade Evans. Can't afford to let him walk. He'd bring a good asset

They probably are talking to him or have plans to talk very shortly.

Lets say Evans and his agent say 5x $5M or he test free agency? And at the same time, teams don't offer the late 1st? We are probably looking at 2nd and B+ prospect (trending well) as the return. Something like that.

I'd easily give him 3-5 years at $4M. Ideally 3 years but I'm sure he pushes for 5 and I'd be OK with that. He's great to have around while Beck, Kapanen, and Hage will be maturing/developing at center. Having someone like Kapanen or Beck on his wing for the first few seasons is a good plan.

Or for all we know, both Evans and Gorton/Hughes agree that he should go to a contender to chase a cup and then they talk when he reaches UFA?

 

[HuGort]

They probably are talking to him or have plans to talk very shortly.

Lets say Evans and his agent say 5x $5M or he test free agency? And at the same time, teams don't offer the late 1st? We are probably looking at 2nd and B+ prospect (trending well) as the return. Something like that.

I'd easily give him 3-5 years at $4M. Ideally 3 years but I'm sure he pushes for 5 and I'd be OK with that. He's great to have around while Beck, Kapanen, and Hage will be maturing/developing at center. Having someone like Kapanen or Beck on his wing for the first few seasons is a good plan.

Or for all we know, both Evans and Gorton/Hughes agree that he should go to a contender to chase a cup and then they talk when he reaches UFA?

I think they sign him. But 5m sounds high. Dvorak gets 4.5m so Evans maybe asking for it.

Evans should return a first.

 

[Chose]

Will he be the first Hab to accept differed money to lower his AAV ?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Will he be the first Hab to accept differed money to lower his AAV ?

The deferred money "loophole" is a gimmick and has no real world utility.

 

[Chose]

The deferred money "loophole" is a gimmick and has no real world utility.

It has the utility to
1) Team: It can lower AAV
2) Player: Can evade high tax locations while declaring revenues under other juridictions later.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It has the utility to
1) Team: It can lower AAV
2) Player: Can evade high tax locations while declaring revenues under other juridictions later.

Interesting way around the cap and I believe Bettman is warning against it like he did for those cap circumventing contracts with $1M added at the end for several years (Weber's contract for example).

I don't think the Habs need to do it with Evans but maybe they will. We will see

I think they sign him. But 5m sounds high. Dvorak gets 4.5m so Evans maybe asking for it.

Evans should return a first.

I wonder if any team offers Evans $5M AAV this summer under any term? He's playing very well and is a very effective 3C but I think $4M is the right AAV for him (3-5 years).

It's his chance to cash in and he's playing very hard to earn it. I would not blame him if he wants to explore his UFA options

 

[Chose]

Interesting way around the cap and I believe Bettman is warning against it like he did for those cap circumventing contracts with $1M added at the end for several years (Weber's contract for example).

I don't think the Habs need to do it with Evans but maybe they will. We will see



I wonder if any team offers Evans $5M AAV this summer under any term? He's playing very well and is a very effective 3C but I think $4M is the right AAV for him (3-5 years).

It's his chance to cash in and he's playing very hard to earn it. I would not blame him if he wants to explore his UFA options

I read somewhere this morning, I think it was Spector, that the league won't do anything about it. They approved it. And it kinda shuts down the long lasting idea that some teams have an edge because of taxes on player's revenues. At least it provides players & teams a way around it.

I think Montreal should really look into this...

 

[Habs Halifax]

I read somewhere this morning, I think it was Spector, that the league won't do anything about it. They approved it. And it kinda shuts down the long lasting idea that some teams have an edge because of taxes on player's revenues.

I think Montreal should really look into this...

Seems like some fans who said taxes don't matter were always wrong?

Here is where I am confused about this... How much money are NHL players spending yearly? Can't be more than $500k in most cases so can't you just invest the money and offset the taxes while you are playing anyways? I have some knowledge but I'm not an accountant.

Lets say the player is making $5M but his family spends $500k per year while they are playing. Are they not sending $4.5M to retirement investing that end up offsetting taxes? Therefore being taxed on $500k vs the whole $5M?

 

[pth2]

Seems like some fans who said taxes don't matter were always wrong?

Here is where I am confused about this... How much money are NHL players spending yearly? Can't be more than $500k in most cases so can't you just invest the money and offset the taxes while you are playing anyways? I have some knowledge but I'm not an accountant.

Lets say the player is making $5M but his family spends $500k per year while they are playing. Are they not sending $4.5M to retirement investing that end up offsetting taxes? Therefore being taxed on $500k vs the whole $5M?

They are still paying 50% income tax on that 5M, and most tax-sheltered accounts (RRSP, RESP, and TFSA, in Canada) have limited contribution room. Evans' 7k TFSA contribution is a drop in the bucket, overall. (I'd take that drop anytime, though)

You're right that capital gains from investments should be pushed back, allowing them to realize those gains from another tax jurisdiction.

 

[Chose]

How much % can you get from investing ? 10%/y maybe ?
But if you differ 9M$ (Vatrano as an example) to be paid in 10 years, that's 900 000$/y that you declare, being taxed, according to the revenue bracket it falls into. If you had taken those 9M$ over 3y, you would be declaring +3M$/y, bumping the bracket % to be paid (On the whole 6M$/y mind you). Now if you moved in a tax haven for those 10y, and saved 25%/y mixing juridsiction % and tax bracket, you would be effectively getting 15% more return on your money than you would have by investing it.

Those are rough numbers, but they do have accountants to figure it out, with the $ value in time taken into account as well.

 

[FerrisRox]

Valuing trades based on the value of the pick when the pick doesn't work out (Mesar), but based on the outcome of the pick when it does (Hutson), is a terrible way (and dishonest) way to evaluate a GMs trading ability.

If we want to talk about his drafting, that is a different story

Filip Mesar, who turned 21 last week and is 14-games into his professional career is a pick that didn't work out?

What are you talking about? Where do you get this nonsense?

Maybe you should go back to your spreadsheets. I think you might have missed something.

Let me ask you a question: Have you ever seen Filip Mesar play?

 

[LaP]

Along with another 1st and another pick in a completely seperate trade.

Trying to include that in with the Lehkonen deal is weird at best. If he wanted to move up for Hage, he could have still done so with any other number of picks even if he kept Lehkonen.

Are you arguing that the value of a 3rd round picks or later is the same as a 2nd round pick and LA would have agreed to move down for a 3rd round pick and 4th round pick? I'm confused ....

 

[LaP]

Since when did players like Jake Evans become worthy of 1st round picks as a rental? He's a solid bottom 6 center that is benefitting from unsustainable shooting percentages, not some big needle mover for a contender.

Since pretty much ever?

Ben Chiarot was traded for a 1st (unprotected).
Paul Gaustad was traded for a 1st.
Bret Kulak who was significantly worse than Evans is at the time the trade was made was traded for a 2nd.
Tanner Jeannot was traded for a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th (and Foote).

Do you watch hockey? Have you watch Evans play this year? The guy is one of the best middle six in the league. Win 50% of his faceoffs. Great PKer. Can play wing if needed. Is a hard worker. Did well in playoffs last time before being injured against Winnipeg. He's not going anywhere unless a 1st is the return.

 

[Fist of Fury]

Since pretty much ever?

Ben Chiarot was traded for a 1st (unprotected).
Paul Gaustad was traded for a 1st.
Bret Kulak who was significantly worse than Evans is at the time the trade was made was traded for a 2nd.
Tanner Jeannot was traded for a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th (and Foote).

Do you watch hockey? Have you watch Evans play this year? The guy is one of the best middle six in the league. Win 50% of his faceoffs. Great PKer. Can play wing if needed. Is a hard worker. Did well in playoffs last time before being injured against Winnipeg. He's not going anywhere unless a 1st is the return.

Gm's are crazy or stupid, but he will get paid.

 

[LaP]

Gm's are crazy or stupid, but he will get paid.

They are. The Jeannot trade was something. I remember Matt Beleskey's contract too as a WTF moment.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Since pretty much ever?

Ben Chiarot was traded for a 1st (unprotected).
Paul Gaustad was traded for a 1st.
Bret Kulak who was significantly worse than Evans is at the time the trade was made was traded for a 2nd.
Tanner Jeannot was traded for a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th (and Foote).

Do you watch hockey? Have you watch Evans play this year? The guy is one of the best middle six in the league. Win 50% of his faceoffs. Great PKer. Can play wing if needed. Is a hard worker. Did well in playoffs last time before being injured against Winnipeg. He's not going anywhere unless a 1st is the return.

So your examples are Ben Chiarot, a big physical defenseman that averaged over 23 minutes TOI on Montreal that season and who had played over 25 minutes a night on their playoff run the previous year to the Stanley Cup final.

Paul Gaustaud who played over 15 minutes a night the past 4 seasons with Buffalo and who had higher point totals than Jake Evans by a significant amount in a much lower scoring era.

Brett Kulak who didn’t even bring back a 1st round pick.

And Tanner Jeannot who was 25 years old, coming off a season where he finished 7th in Calder voting and was an RFA after the season (so not a rental).

None of these players are examples of career bottom 6 players that went for a 1st round pick as a rental.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Gm's are crazy or stupid, but he will get paid.

Got to fill roster spots somehow and when your pool is thin or guys are not ready, that's when the desperation comes with going after short term gains. Especially for teams who are expected to win or go on long runs.