Player Discussion Jake "Big Tuna" Virtanen | XVII Nikolaj Who...?

[PRNuck]

Damnit Jake, please skip the cheat day and replace it with another leg day, or a first leg day by the looks of it.

 

[DL44]

Strange, you weren't concerned about his health back then. Now, when he unarguably is underwhelming do we start banging the injury drum to make excuses.

I was targeted by you with this^.
I stated the fact you were lying cuz of your implication that I was simply making some sort of post-season excuse...

Then you post:

This is the first instance I can find of you talking about his shoulder being an issue in relation to being a pro:

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=131235785&highlight=virtanen+shoulder#post131235785

This was 4 months ago. Y'know, after the season was over and Virtanen had a dog's breakfast of a season.

So you make me search my own posts.... and I find one in Jan, one in Feb, I think one March where i address my concern about Jake's playing style needing change in order for him survive in the NHL... and I simply respond with "You continue to lie".

My implication IN A JANUARY POST was clear - His shoulder may not hold up if he continues blast people - he needs to change his game or face issues - 'ask his shoulder'..

In the meanwhile sheep jump on board thinking that your word is gold and you 'got me' or have somehow made me 'look bad' when in fact you're cherry picking and exclusion of previous posts are as disingenuous as one can possibly be.

You claim the first post i made on it was April 21, 2017..
I said "you continue to lie" because:

Jan 20th, 2017
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=127103545&postcount=354

Feb 2nd, 2017
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=127648813&postcount=49


Jan... Feb.. April.. (don't know where my march post went)... pretty consistent.

I've been consistent and honest. Unlike your posting in this thread.
The rest of your BS is just that.. BS..


Back to your regularly scheduled summer sh--show..

 

[F A N]

Has this guy got a personal trainer or group that he trains with or does he do the training on his own?

Last season he was reportedly working out of Rogers Arena like 5 times a week. That's why it was such a head scratcher that he wasn't in ideal shape. I guess the Canucks training staff took the summer off? As for players, most come and go and I think Etem was one of the guys who spent most of the summer training in Vancouver.

 

[MissionCanucksFan]

Last season he was reportedly working out of Rogers Arena like 5 times a week. That's why it was such a head scratcher that he wasn't in ideal shape. I guess the Canucks training staff took the summer off? As for players, most come and go and I think Etem was one of the guys who spent most of the summer training in Vancouver.

I could be wrong but according to CBA, players aren't to be training with the team during the summer or cant use team trainers, or something along that line.

what trainers CAN or should do is write out a set routine, along with diet plan and cross their fingers that the players stick to it.

https://puckitupblog.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/img_7101.jpg

Looking at this photo(please disregard the pride part) Jakes arms are a little bigger than Eriks.

 

[DL44]

Last season he was reportedly working out of Rogers Arena like 5 times a week. That's why it was such a head scratcher that he wasn't in ideal shape. I guess the Canucks training staff took the summer off? As for players, most come and go and I think Etem was one of the guys who spent most of the summer training in Vancouver.

This is the first I've heard about '5 times a week at Rogers Arena'.. I don't think that's plausible.
Sure as hell didn't seem like it at camp.

 

[NoShowWilly]

This is the first I've heard about '5 times a week at Rogers Arena'.. I don't think that's plausible.
Sure as hell didn't seem like it at camp.

of course you don't because it doesn't fit your narrative.

http://vancouversun.com/sports/hock...-surprise-canucks-top-10-well-what-do-ya-know

2. Jake Virtanen’s fitness wasn’t up to expectations at training camp

Amidst all the Virtanen noise this week was the revelation Virtanen wasn’t where the team needed him to be when training camp started.

Wait, what?

This is the guy who lived in Vancouver all summer and spent five days a week showing up to Rogers Arena for training.

Maybe it’s too much to expect him to be at the same level as the Sedins. But given how closely Virtanen was working with the Canucks’ training staff and how committed he was in giving his time, you’d expect some good results here.

But no, and that’s not a good look for anyone involved.

 

[DL44]

of course you don't because it doesn't fit your narrative.

http://vancouversun.com/sports/hock...-surprise-canucks-top-10-well-what-do-ya-know

IF i had a narrative and knew about him training at Rogers Arena 5 times a week and coming in the way he did... then it would be in the best interests of that hypothetical narrative to ignore his post.

I wouldn't be inquiring into it... ****.

 

[sting101]

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/canucks-prospect-jake-virtanen-focused-game-changer/

 

[DL44]

 

[VanJack]

Also saw that report on Global about Virtanen......apparently his off-season training regimen has revolved around running, cycling and scrimmaging....currently listed at 214 and aiming to come to camp at 210.

Almost impossible to overstate how much of a positive influence Travis Green will have on these younger players compared to his dismal predecessor. I expect a big camp from Virtanen.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Also saw that report on Global about Virtanen......apparently his off-season training regimen has revolved around running, cycling and scrimmaging....currently listed at 214 and aiming to come to camp at 210.

Almost impossible to overstate how much of a positive influence Travis Green will have on these younger players compared to his dismal predecessor. I expect a big camp from Virtanen.

But does he have the mentorship of a useless, 30 something year old plug? Or is that why we brought in Ryan White?

I guess Dorsett was a pretty bad mentor considering how Jake went off the rails last year.

 

[DL44]

Also saw that report on Global about Virtanen......apparently his off-season training regimen has revolved around running, cycling and scrimmaging....currently listed at 214 and aiming to come to camp at 210.

Almost impossible to overstate how much of a positive influence Travis Green will have on these younger players compared to his dismal predecessor. I expect a big camp from Virtanen.

What are you going to base that on?

Horvat, Granlund, Hutton, Stecher, and Baertschi seemed to break in well with Willie.


Maybe its more on the individual player than the coach..

 

[me2]

But does he have the mentorship of a useless, 30 something year old plug? Or is that why we brought in Ryan White?

I guess Dorsett was a pretty bad mentor considering how Jake went off the rails last year.

Jake learned a lot from Prust, like how to be an AHLer.

 

[me2]

Also saw that report on Global about Virtanen......apparently his off-season training regimen has revolved around running, cycling and scrimmaging....currently listed at 214 and aiming to come to camp at 210.

Almost impossible to overstate how much of a positive influence Travis Green will have on these younger players compared to his dismal predecessor. I expect a big camp from Virtanen.

19 points in the AHL. Who was his coach?

 

[VanJack]

What are you going to base that on?

Horvat, Granlund, Hutton, Stecher, and Baertschi seemed to break in well with Willie.


Maybe its more on the individual player than the coach..

Not sure I agree with this....Horvat basically tread water, at least defensively, and went goal-less in the last 17 games....Baertshi basically stalled in his development and Hutton took a big step backward.

And although Stecher eventually worked his way up the lineup, you have to remember that Willie Wonka sent him to Utica at the start of season in favor of keeping Philip Larsen.....about the only guy who really stepped up his game was Granlund--and according to a lot of posters on this board, that doesn't mean squat considering his overall game.

 

[DL44]

Not sure I agree with this....Horvat basically tread water, at least defensively, and went goal-less in the last 17 games....Baertshi basically stalled in his development and Hutton took a big step backward.

And although Stecher eventually worked his way up the lineup, you have to remember that Willie Wonka sent him to Utica at the start of season in favor of keeping Philip Larsen.....about the only guy who really stepped up his game was Granlund--and according to a lot of posters on this board, that doesn't mean squat considering his overall game.

(And Stecher's play dove off a cliff to finish the season as well)

They didn't finish well because the team went to **** the last yr...
I said they all broke into the league well (and became NHL regulars) while Willie was their coach.

They still remain a contradiction to your sentiment. Especially when you see the bigger mins he pumped into the final games for players like Gaunce and Goldobin....


"Almost impossible to overstate how much of a positive influence Travis Green will have on these younger players compared to his dismal predecessor"

FWIW, I think you completely nailed it!

 

[bbud]

Also saw that report on Global about Virtanen......apparently his off-season training regimen has revolved around running, cycling and scrimmaging....currently listed at 214 and aiming to come to camp at 210.

Almost impossible to overstate how much of a positive influence Travis Green will have on these younger players compared to his dismal predecessor. I expect a big camp from Virtanen.

The way he trained last year was totally to build mass get bigger it certainly didnt help and i question coaching and training staff on what he was told anď why he went in that direction.
WD had no patience unless you were one his favorite projects kids dont learn and grow that way very few show up in the NHL as perfect players from day 1 and developing them is the key to success hopefully Green does a better job there..

 

[Shareefruck]

The way he trained last year was totally to build mass get bigger it certainly didnt help and i question coaching and training staff on what he was told anÄ why he went in that direction.
WD had no patience unless you were one his favorite projects kids dont learn and grow that way very few show up in the NHL as perfect players from day 1 and developing them is the key to success hopefully Green does a better job there..

I totally disagree with that sentiment-- Virtanen already WAS one of WD's favorites, was given more opportunity than his play ever warranted, but played so poorly that it forced his hand (much like Prust). This idea that under a more fair coach, he would have been given more icetime last year is ludicrous, IMO. Given fair and level-headed treatment, he should have been in the AHL all of last season, not given EVEN MORE opportunity at the NHL level.

 

[elitepete]

I totally disagree with that sentiment-- Virtanen already WAS one of WD's favorites, was given more opportunity than his play ever warranted, but played so poorly that it forced his hand (much like Prust). This idea that under a more fair coach, he would have earned more icetime last year is ludicrous, IMO. Given fair and level-headed treatment, he should have been in the AHL all of last season, not given EVEN MORE opportunity at the NHL level!

If Virtanen was treated fairly based on his play, he would have yet to make his NHL debut.

 

[Shareefruck]

If Virtanen was treated fairly based on his play, he would have yet to make his NHL debut.

For the record, that's what I was trying to say.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

For the record, that's what I was trying to say.

And you'd still be wrong.

Going into the 15/16 season after training camp, Virtanen was the team's best hitter and had absolutely earned at least his 9 game look. Am I the last person who remembers that 10 point game the Baertschi--Horvat--Virtanen line had against the Oilers that preseason? The decision to break that line up immediately after that game still ranks as one of the most moronic things WD ever did here.

 

[Nick Lang]

I was targeted by you with this^.
I stated the fact you were lying cuz of your implication that I was simply making some sort of post-season excuse...

Then you post:


So you make me search my own posts.... and I find one in Jan, one in Feb, I think one March where i address my concern about Jake's playing style needing change in order for him survive in the NHL... and I simply respond with "You continue to lie".

My implication IN A JANUARY POST was clear - His shoulder may not hold up if he continues blast people - he needs to change his game or face issues - 'ask his shoulder'..

In the meanwhile sheep jump on board thinking that your word is gold and you 'got me' or have somehow made me 'look bad' when in fact you're cherry picking and exclusion of previous posts are as disingenuous as one can possibly be.

You claim the first post i made on it was April 21, 2017..
I said "you continue to lie" because:

Jan 20th, 2017
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=127103545&postcount=354

Feb 2nd, 2017
http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=127648813&postcount=49


Jan... Feb.. April.. (don't know where my march post went)... pretty consistent.

I've been consistent and honest. Unlike your posting in this thread.
The rest of your BS is just that.. BS..


Back to your regularly scheduled summer sh--show..

Not awesome in reality.

 

[AwesomeInTheory]

I was targeted by you with this^.
I stated the fact you were lying cuz of your implication that I was simply making some sort of post-season excuse...

Still wasn't lying. It was a very quick search.

So you make me search my own posts.... and I find one in Jan, one in Feb, I think one March where i address my concern about Jake's playing style needing change in order for him survive in the NHL... and I simply respond with "You continue to lie".

Very different tone and focus then vs what you are arguing now.

That's all. Ta ta.

 

[DL44]

Still wasn't lying. It was a very quick search.



Very different tone and focus then vs what you are arguing now.

That's all. Ta ta.

 

[Shareefruck]

And you'd still be wrong.

Going into the 15/16 season after training camp, Virtanen was the team's best hitter and had absolutely earned at least his 9 game look. Am I the last person who remembers that 10 point game the Baertschi--Horvat--Virtanen line had against the Oilers that preseason? The decision to break that line up immediately after that game still ranks as one of the most moronic things WD ever did here.

My recollection is that throughout that pre-season, Virtanen looked pretty lost out there, except he was at least running around hitting things and getting by on his superior physical tools-- Everyone remembers that hit he had on McDavid that seemed to shift the momentum of that game. And then he had that one amazing game with Baertschi and Horvat. Other than that, he did not look like one of the better bubble guys, IMO. On balance, McCann, Shinkaruk, Gaunce, one of the older 4th line guys (don't remember which one), and arguably even Subban/Carcone looked more impressive shift-to-shift, game-in-game-out that preseason. I suppose one can make the argument that he deserved a 9 game look just based on the promise of the Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen line alone (admittedly that single game performance was one of the best of the preseason), but I had him as the 2nd-4th last cut, personally.

When he got those nine games, he looked lost and in over his head, while at least playing a somewhat physical game. I agree that it was dumb not to put him with Baertschi and Horvat if they were going to keep him up, but off that line, he did not look anything close to NHL ready in those 9 games, IMO. And then after the 9 games, his play plummeted.

At best it was a "promising flash of what we might have but still looks way too raw" type of preseason performance rather than a "put him on the team now, he's ready!" performance.

Admittedly, he temporarily looked like a legitimate NHLer when he returned from Team Canada (easily his best stretch in a Canuck uniform and significantly better than his preseason performance), but it didn't take long before he reverted back to looking like a chicken with its head cut off, IMO.

I would strongly disagree with any notion that he was ready to develop in the NHL at any point in his career so far, barring a hypothetical brief call-up after returning from Team Canada.