Jagr vs Crosby

[Maple Leaf]

Crosby might be best maybe ever

 

[Video Nasty]

There is a reasonable way to project numbers using the butterfly affect to change something that happened in isolation to Crosby getting injured is just ...looking for the technical term here....wacky.

Honestly, using the butterfly effect to suggest anything can happen and we can’t make reasonable projections for what is likely to have happened sounds like listening to someone talking about their healing crystals. Yes complex dynamic systems are unpredictable, and it’s possible Crosby might have completely fallen off like Stamkos. But the likelihood is so minute it’s not worth considering

 

[Nathaniel]

Unless your 66 99 or 4. It's crosby

 

[Despote]

Honestly, using the butterfly effect to suggest anything can happen and we can’t make reasonable projections for what is likely to have happened sounds like listening to someone talking about their healing crystals. Yes complex dynamic systems are unpredictable, and it’s possible Crosby might have completely fallen off like Stamkos. But the likelihood is so minute it’s not worth considering

The problem stems from using the what ifs only in the cases where it benefits the player and adds to their accomplishments. Ultimately what happened is what happened.

Do these what ifs ever take into consideration that Crosby was lucky due to a sh% heaters in 2010 and 2017 and due to Ovechkin missing games to win a Rocket in the first place? Crosby had an unusually high number of secondary PP assists in both his MVP years, the least repeatable form of production. So maybe it evens out where Crosby doesn't get injuries, but also his 07 and 14 MVPs get wiped out too?

I'm not particularly into award counting. Crosby was a better player than his sheer number of awards. But playing the what if game only when it benefits a player is not honest either.

 

[MrazeksVengeance]

Both are hockey gods.

As a Czech my vote is clear. Jágr still has lot of f*** ups to make to loss my vote.

 

[nowhereman]

They are both incredibles talents on nearly the same level of offensive talent. But Crosby is the more well-rounded player and leader that you build a franchise around. If you asked all 32 GMs to draft one of the two at age 18, I would wager that almost every vote would be for Sid.

 

[Caps8112]

Shaq wasnt anchoring anything in 06

That was D-wade/NBA possibly rigging that series to get the heat the win. Shaq was irrelevent in the finals and only a good co-star the rest of the 2006 playoffs

Any player can have a narrative made against them before they win

"Ovechkin was also a coach killer before 2018"

"He got Bruce, Hunter fired, forced Semin out etc."

Jagr delievered 2 cups on the Pens with Lemieux. They couldnt win another, it happens.

Jagr being traded had to do with direction of the team and time to rebuild

It wasn't like Dubois for example who gave up on the ice for the Jackets

Jagr was part of the 2013 Bruins cup finals team too if I'm not mistaken, took a lower role and didnt complain there. Almost got his 3rd cup as a good depth player. He played to help his team win and his teams had success

Where’s this info coming from? Opinion? Hunter took the job, telling gm he wasn’t staying past the playoffs. Boudreau never recovered from the habs loss and tried to change how the team played with the wrong personnel. Semin was his own problem.

 

[JFedol]

Ngl, there are times where I wish that Jagr wasn't a egotistical maniac. So much potential

 

[Fataldogg]

Jagr was more dominant offensively and was the better goal scorer. Crosby had a more complete game than Jagr. But, I will say the best defense is good offense. Jagr consistently had the other team pinned in their zone with his board play.

Its a coin flip. They're both top-10 players of all time and I wouldn't have an issue with one over the other.

 

[Plural]

Sid. For the same reason he's better than OV

 

[Turin]

Jagr was more dominant offensively and was the better goal scorer. Crosby had a more complete game than Jagr. But, I will say the best defense is good offense. Jagr consistently had the other team pinned in their zone with his board play.

Its a coin flip. They're both top-10 players of all time and I wouldn't have an issue with one over the other.

Crosby's board play was even better than Jagrs.

 

[Gerulaitis]

Jagr, of course

 

[Fatass]

Jagr was more dominant offensively and was the better goal scorer. Crosby had a more complete game than Jagr. But, I will say the best defense is good offense. Jagr consistently had the other team pinned in their zone with his board play.

Its a coin flip. They're both top-10 players of all time and I wouldn't have an issue with one over the other.

So many great great players have suited up in the National League. Other than the clear top four: 99, 4, 66, 9 there are arguments to be made for a lot of these great great players to be 5-20.

 

[Nathaniel]

Crosby even with his peak ravaged by injuries has more major awards. Also 13 top 10 scoring finishes is hard to beat

 

[MessierII]

I think it’s pretty close. Probably lean Jagr but it’s close.

 

[frisco]

I've got Jagr #5 all-time and Crosby 6th. Close.

My Best-Carey

 

[daver]

Crosby's offensive ceiling was as high as Jagr's while contributing significantly more than offense. Indisputably the better leader and winner.

 

[TopTenPlayz]

Jagr 1996-2001 > Sid 2009-2014. Rest of career Sid a little more consistent. Sid one team forever. Jagr toured the league. Imma pick Sid.

 

[wetcoast]

Jagr 1996-2001 > Sid 2009-2014. Rest of career Sid a little more consistent. Sid one team forever. Jagr toured the league. Imma pick Sid.

Crosby's Art Ross and some great playoffs and Conn Smythes outside of that time frame makes it pretty hard to rank Jagr higher than Cosby.

 

[RevengeOfTheDrai]

Jagr’s peak is much higher, but it’s Crosby career wise mainly because he’s a better playoff preformer and a better presence in the locker room than Jagr.

 

[landy]

Jagr has the individual. Crosby has the team.

 

[paracord]

Jagr if you want to win scoring titles and make ESPN highlights.

Crosby if you want to win cups.

Crosby captaining Jagr and centering him would have been insane.

 

[psycat]

Jagr, and kinda easy at that, better peak, prime and second most points of all time so longevity is hardly a catchup point for Crosby.

Also won gold in Olympics with a team that's not Canada which in my book is simply worth more, goes both ways since alot of great players who aren't/weren't Canadians didn't manage.

Sure Crosby is likely the better playoff performer(although id argue his game in highstakes matches is abit overrated) but that's also all he got going for him in comparison to Jagr. Now in my mind there is something(extra) to be said for a player commited to one team for their entire career(?) over being a merchant like Jagr post pens so there's that.

Can see im in the minority here, can't help but wonder how many % of the voters were alive to see peak/prime Jagr. And for the ones who were but still vote Crosby I feel like Lemieux and Gretzky directly preceding Jagr might do him a huge disfavor in comparisons like this.

 

[JFedol]

I don't know why, but Jagr putting up his art ross prime seasons in the Dead Puck Era just seems 10x more impressive. All the clutching, grabbing and hooking screams "real" raw talent and I guess overall toughness that was needed for sustained excellence on a season to season basis.

It's the same reason why I find Howe's longevity insane as well.