Warhead77
Jets4Life
Even if Trouba has a ton of potential and makes the big team this season, Noel no doubt will find a way to give Enstrom more ice time than Trouba.
Jacob Trouba
- Thread starter Hank Chinaski
- Start date
Even if Trouba has a ton of potential and makes the big team this season, Noel no doubt will find a way to give Enstrom more ice time than Trouba.
truck
Registered User
Noel would be stupid not to, baring some sort of ridiculous - darn near unprecidented - breakout from JT.
Warhead77
Jets4Life
A top prospect like Trouba, IMO, needs the icetime to move up the ladder.
Giving that to an injury prone "over passer" like Enstrom would not be beneficial to this team.
truck
Registered User
Giving that to a top pairing LHD and former Allstar like Enstrom would be beneficial to this team.
They aren't competing for the same ice time. Not this year anyways if they ever do.
Joe Hallenback
Moderator
- Mar 4, 2005
- 15,616
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I would say the Jets are in trouble if Trouba plays top minutes and I like Trouba a lot. He needs sheltered bottom 6 minutes with some 2nd unit PP time.
No need to rush him into something he isn't ready for.
No need to rush him into something he isn't ready for.
DEANYOUNGBLOOD17
Registered User
- May 10, 2011
- 3,520
- 1,533
Enstrom plays the Left side ......Trouba the Right........
The right side Depth is Big Buff ......then Bogo.....
Trouba will have to beat out ..... The Postman and Redmond for the 3rd pairing D-man spot oppositte Stuart.
Not an easy task as both of them have been scrapping for that position for the past 2 years.....and both of them have proven themselves as AHL all stars.
If the Postman loses out to either.......... he will be kept around as our 7 th d-man........either Redmond or Trouba will be sent to the AHL.......
If Trouba plays less than 10 NHL games this year ......his ELC slides and his 3 year ELC contract does not begin until next year......
Redmond still has one year left until he is exposed to waivers.....so it is easy to send him to the Rock this year.......
AS of now .....I see it as Trouba vs Redmond for the 3 rd pairing right D-man with STuart.... the loser spending time on the Rock......... the Postman all but guaranteed the 7 th spot..........
It's more than just Burmistrov (whom, I thought, by the way, Noel managed poorly) I haven't been able to make sense of Noel giving #55 a look as a 4th line player either, and never letting him play where he, as a playmaking center, is meant to actually play. So I worry that with players who are young, and talented, but not so talented as to be head and shoulders better than all the veterans, that Noel will repeat this pattern.
Kane and Bogo were already well established players with star/superstar potential when they arrived. They were too good for Noel not to play. You can't really defend Noel on that note. Kane scored 30 goals in Noels first year, if a coach isn't playing a guy with talent like that, he doesn't GET a second year. It's hardly a defense of Noel that he played Bogo and Kane that year. It really just means he has a pulse.
Though it may look appealing to have his ELC slide for 1 yr (as a 19 yr old playing less than 10 gms), I truly believe he'll be better defensively than either Postma or Redmond. That should elevate JT into the top 6, bottom pairing. Redmond, imo, is the guy that starts the year in the AHL. Let him recover fully from his injury, by playing several games in the AHL, without trouble. If JT struggles, he's an obvious call-up if playing well in the A.
Agree, Joe.
He's likely a year or two (maybe more) away from top minutes. No need to put him in that position right now.
If he can play top minutes effectively by the end of year 2, that is a HUGE bonus for this franchise, imo.
King Woodballs
Captain Awesome
If enstrom is playing better then Trouba why not?
Your play should be the dictator in how much ice time you get.
The NHL isnt a developmental league. That is what the CHL, AHL ECHL etc etc are.
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
King Woodballs
Captain Awesome
what?
Bogo was nearly run out of Atlanta before the team left for his poor play.
Ask any of the Thrasher fans that still hang out around here.
He has had a great turn around under this coaching staff. Granted allot has to do with Charlie Huddy, but still.
I don't understand these attempts to make up a defensive depth chart by either rushing Trouba or putting right handed shots on the left side. The logical thing to do is let Trouba play max minutes in the AHL, see if Buff really is in shape, and if Redmond or Postma can emerge as regular NHL'ers.
IF most of the above happens, someone gets traded for a left handed defenceman. That's if Kulda has not grabbed a spot.
Other than Trouba and Bogo, one of those right handed defenceman will be moved at the deadline or close to it.
IF most of the above happens, someone gets traded for a left handed defenceman. That's if Kulda has not grabbed a spot.
Other than Trouba and Bogo, one of those right handed defenceman will be moved at the deadline or close to it.
I'm not against Trouba starting the year out in the AHL if he can't beat out Redmond and Postma. But I think that's highly unlikely. The guy is being heralded as a potential franchise defenseman. At the end of the day, Redmond and Postma are in the JAG category, and Trouba isn't.
My feeling is that Trouba is already a better player than either of them. He just hasn't had the chance to prove it yet.
My feeling is that Trouba is already a better player than either of them. He just hasn't had the chance to prove it yet.
- Mar 10, 2010
- 35,556
- 33,899
Just wanted to repost the OP
There are some amazing D men that played 3rd pairing and even shielded 3rd pairing......Pietrangelo played 1 year of juniors then they tried him in the NHL and AHL before he finished up his 2nd year sfter his draft in Barrie of the OHL....that seemed to work out swimmingly.
I don't want them to hold back Jacob but I don't think we need to rush things this season either.......long year and over 82 games I believe he will get to test his skills in the NHL at some point. if he kicks the door down great but at this point it is away more about his development than it is about how much he can help us today.
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Jetsman
Registered User
This guy is going to be special but right now he needs the shielded 3rd pairing minutes to start.
I look back at Dave Ellett cracking the Jets 1.0 squad and playing with a telented veteran (Babych) who shepherded him through the transition from US college to NHL start the season and I see the exact same thing happening here. I don't see the Jets trading Buff or Enstrom until Morrissey makes the team in a few years and that will be when big Jake takes over on the top pairing. Trouba has at least the same 10-15 goals a year offensive upside as Ellett did but with more of a bloodthirst for the big hit than Ellett ever did.
Also, didn't Trouba play the left point paired with Seth Jones last WJHC and outplay him while playing the off point?
Good times await with this kid my friends...
I look back at Dave Ellett cracking the Jets 1.0 squad and playing with a telented veteran (Babych) who shepherded him through the transition from US college to NHL start the season and I see the exact same thing happening here. I don't see the Jets trading Buff or Enstrom until Morrissey makes the team in a few years and that will be when big Jake takes over on the top pairing. Trouba has at least the same 10-15 goals a year offensive upside as Ellett did but with more of a bloodthirst for the big hit than Ellett ever did.
Also, didn't Trouba play the left point paired with Seth Jones last WJHC and outplay him while playing the off point?
Good times await with this kid my friends...
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
Trouba and Jones weren't ever intentionally paired together in WJ.
Sometimes with awkward line changes they were on the ice together, but:
Jones was almost always paired with McCabe
Trouba was almost always paired with Sieloff (in playoff rounds) or Gotsibehere (in preliminary rounds)
Positive
Enjoy your flight
Oh yeah, coming off a -27 year. And then the arbitration. Hard to say he came into the organization as a favorite son.
Burmistrov and a single incident of Noel yelling at Scheifele, are the sole pieces of evidence that Noel somehow has a thing against young players. To me that's not enough.
He spent 17 or so years coaching in the ECHL and AHL, where the players are younger than the average NHL player, seeing a lot of developmental players go through the system. Given his hate for the youngun's, that must have been torture for him...
Positive
Enjoy your flight
It's easy to make sense of. He had to be demonstrably better than most of our other centers. Including young, talented former #12 pick Bryan Little. And young, talented, former #8 pick Burmistrov. And veteran, 50-60 pt man, #10 overall pick Antropov. And Wellwood. And Slater.
He either has to be demonstrably better, or his upside has to be perceived to be so high (like a generational talent, or a top 3 pick) in order to supplant them on the upper lines. He wasn't, and he isn't. Unless we somehow lucked out, and every other GM overlooked Scheifele, and he should have been a top 2 guy or something?
We are a little too high on Scheifele, IMHO...automatically assuming that he'll be better than the players we already ice. There is a distinct possibility that he may never even reach the levels that Little or Antropov already have. That is, 50-60 pts.
JetsHomer
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2011
- 10,941
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You never really know with prospects, but when I watch Scheifele play I see a very smart player with every tool to be a top 6 center in the NHL. He might not make, but I personally really think he will. His playmaking and skill in tight make him on paper an ideal partner for Kane, and I've always noticed Scheifele is really great at feeding his wingers breakaway passes. He could take awhile but I believe there is a solid chance that he could kick the door in this season and post something like .5 ppg, which would probably land him top 6 in team scoring.
Scheifele and Camara were really good in Barrie and Camara plays a similar style to Kane. I think Scheifele will need a big physical winge cause as much as I hate to admit it but for a big center he's quite a soft player.
Duke749
Savannah Ghost Pirates
Are people forgetting Kane was benched in his first game in Winnipeg???
Noel is clearly hard on young players.
Redmond seemed to be one of the only ones who came in and was trusted early on(to be fair he was like 23-24).
Noel is clearly hard on young players.
Redmond seemed to be one of the only ones who came in and was trusted early on(to be fair he was like 23-24).
Positive
Enjoy your flight
Well, I prefer to go with a simpler answer. I'm not going to try to develop some sort of psychological profile of Noel. Not going to make any assumptions about any emotional bias he might have about players of certain ages or whatnot. Rather than make a dramatic, sweeping, generalization of his character, I'll go with the simplest answer:
He benches guys who are playing like dumbasses. Just like any other coach. That's the simplest answer. It's not because he has something against young guys. It's just coincidence that these dumbasses also happened to be the young guys.
And it's not even if you aren't producing; it seems that it's fine if you aren't producing, as long as you are trying to play within the system (Jokinen). But if you're going to be unruly, unrepentant, or a dumbass, you're going to get a yelling at and riding the pine. As long as the effort is perceived, you're fine. As long as you make adjustments (Kane, Bogo) you're fine.
I really don't think it's fair to make this character assumption of him based on interactions with two players, when he's had successful interactions with others of a similar age. But now it seems it has 'stuck' with this community, and it's now 'fact' that Noel has an issue with young players. Fact.
On the Redmond thing...Claude Noel is in his late 50's. Everyone seems young to him. I'm in my 40's, and a 23 year old is not really different from a 21 year old to me. I would think Noel would feel similarly.
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truck
Registered User
Noel has also talked about making young players earn everything and about being hard on them. He has also talked about the pluses of the Nashville model of development.Well, I prefer to go with a simpler answer. I'm not going to try to develop some sort of psychological profile of Noel. Not going to make any assumptions about any emotional bias he might have about players of certain ages or whatnot. Rather than make a dramatic, sweeping, generalization of his character, I'll go with the simplest answer:
He benches guys who are playing like dumbasses. Just like any other coach. That's the simplest answer. It's not because he has something against young guys. It's just coincidence that these dumbasses also happened to be the young guys.
And it's not even if you aren't producing; it seems that it's fine if you aren't producing, as long as you are trying to play within the system (Jokinen). But if you're going to be unruly, unrepentant, or a dumbass, you're going to get a yelling at and riding the pine. As long as the effort is perceived, you're fine. As long as you make adjustments (Kane, Bogo) you're fine.
I really don't think it's fair to make this character assumption of him based on interactions with two players, when he's had successful interactions with others of a similar age. But now it seems it has 'stuck' with this community, and it's now 'fact' that Noel has an issue with young players. Fact.
On the Redmond thing...Claude Noel is in his late 50's. Everyone seems young to him. I'm in my 40's, and a 23 year old is not really different from a 21 year old to me. I would think Noel would feel similarly.
...but he isn't in the AHL anymore and his role in development is different.
Not saying this as a plus or minus to anything, just saying he has said it. Hopefully he looks at things player by player.
Positive
Enjoy your flight
Oh yeah, it's tough to say. And for sure he has potential. But I guess my point is that you don't supplant your top centers, for someone who might be a top center. Granted our top centers aren't exactly Crosby and Malkin. But someone else here said that the NHL shouldn't be a developmental league, and I agree with that person.
Your immediate goal IMHO, should be to win games, one at a time. There are times when you can afford to experiment a little bit, but as a bubble team those opportunities are rare, and generally you only do so when forced. Especially when you're a young bubble team like the Jets are, that is seemingly on the slow rise. Mind you, if we were an 'old' bubble team, I'd be more open to throwing Scheifele up there on the top lines. And given that the delicacies of Scheifele's contract meant that we'd either have to commit to him or send him back down, I think we made the right decision....not to rush.
