Value of: Jacob Markstrom and/or Tyler Toffoli to the Leafs.

[seanlinden]

Wait. The Flames eat salary and go forward with Murray as part of their tandem? Are you serious here?

If they're going to rebuild... for 1 year... absolutely.

 

[Sparky93]

Agreed. It's pretty clear to me Kadri and Huberdeau are full out cap dumps. We'd need to add assets to them or retain to move them. Just saying Markstrom isn't as clear in terms of value. I know he's not getting a 1st or top notch prospect back, but I don't know if we could get a 2nd and 4th for him or would need to add a 2nd and 4th to move him.

Kadri contract was bad the moment they started talking about it, didn't expect much. Huberdeau was misused for the bulk of the year, new team and a huge payday. Fully expect him to bounce back to a PPG player. Markstrom was, for me, the most disappointing of the bunch. No real changes or excuses, just plain bad.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

yeah we have enough swiss cheese in Toronto

 

[Some Other Flame]

I cynically would have agreed on this a year or two ago. But with the Sutter firing and the annoyingly detailed interviews for GM and coach, I'm willing to sit back and give CSEC and ownership some props and be optimistic on this.

Biggest props would be seeing Conroy doing some trades with salary retention though. I think it's been like 20+ years since salary retention was a thing for trades? Prior to Treliving, decade+ for buyouts (but no idea why they'd greenlight buyouts over salary retention).

10 years since salary retention was instituted. Flames actually did it once though - they retained 50% of Rittich's salary in the trade deadline deal that sent him to the Leafs in 2021.

Can't say I'm as optimistic about the CSEC as you though. They seem like slow learners. But in this case, I hope they do institute a ban on trading with the Leafs regardless since the Flames never seem to win those anyway.

 

[Figgy44]

10 years since salary retention was instituted. Flames actually did it once though - they retained 50% of Rittich's salary in the trade deadline deal that sent him to the Leafs in 2021.

Can't say I'm as optimistic about the CSEC as you though. They seem like slow learners. But in this case, I hope they do institute a ban on trading with the Leafs regardless since the Flames never seem to win those anyway.

How did I miss that Rittich's deal was retained? Good catch.

Fair enough on your opinion on CSEC. But I guess this info is some additional props to them from my POV (and it kinda annoys me a little that this is the case).

We're sitting on glass at half, I'll be optimistic and with the track record, fair you're cautiously optimistic/pessimistic against them.

 

[Haatley]

If they're going to rebuild... for 1 year... absolutely.

That makes no sense.

If the Flames rebuild, they aren't taking on Matt Murray, retaining salary, and getting nothing back in return.

If the Leafs are moving Murray to ANYONE, they are retaining and adding picks.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Markstrom sucks, he crumbles under pressure and having him on the Leafs would kill his career.

 

[seanlinden]

That makes no sense.

If the Flames rebuild, they aren't taking on Matt Murray, retaining salary, and getting nothing back in return.

If the Leafs are moving Murray to ANYONE, they are retaining and adding picks.

Not when the Leafs are taking on a more expensive goalie with more term.

 

[Bond]

That makes no sense.

If the Flames rebuild, they aren't taking on Matt Murray, retaining salary, and getting nothing back in return.

If the Leafs are moving Murray to ANYONE, they are retaining and adding picks.

I think if they rebuild then they'd have to dump Markstrom. No one is paying for him

 

[Haatley]

I think if they rebuild then they'd have to dump Markstrom. No one is paying for him

Markstrom is not a cap dump.

He is one of the best goalies in the league coming off a Vezina runner up.

They aren't rebuilding. They don't rebuild.

Not when the Leafs are taking on a more expensive goalie with more term.

They are getting the legit starter they wanted for the last 10 years. They are trading someone who can't stay healthy who they regret signing.

The Leafs retain and add. It's not smart to think otherwise.

 

[Bond]

Markstrom is not a cap dump.

He is one of the best goalies in the league coming off a Vezina runner up.

They aren't rebuilding. They don't rebuild.


They are getting the legit starter they wanted for the last 10 years. They are trading someone who can't stay healthy who they regret signing.

The Leafs retain and add. It's not smart to think otherwise.

Markstrom was one of the worst starters in the league last year, this isn't 21/22. The Flames do rebuild when forced like when the Iggy era finally ended. If Lindholm wants out and they can't find a trade that brings in a top 6 center then they might actually be smart about asset management. If they do go for it they will have to go all in next season and pray for a rebound from Huberdeau and Markstrom. The Flames cannot afford to re-sign all of their UFAs over the next two seasons and need to fill a #1 center, two top six forwards, a top pair dman, and a second pair dman with current players or other UFAs.
Lindholm is the key. If he forces his way out then it will be interesting to see how they react.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

10 years since salary retention was instituted. Flames actually did it once though - they retained 50% of Rittich's salary in the trade deadline deal that sent him to the Leafs in 2021.

Can't say I'm as optimistic about the CSEC as you though. They seem like slow learners. But in this case, I hope they do institute a ban on trading with the Leafs regardless since the Flames never seem to win those anyway.

There will be no ban that's ridiculous

 

[shortfuze]

Muzzin on LTIR. Murray isn’t coming back (buyout is 600k)

They will have about 18-20 million depending on retention
For Murray

With

Xxxx. Matthews. Marner
Knies. Tavares. Nylander
Jarnkrok. Xxxxx. Lafferty
Xxxxx. Xxxxxxx. Xxxxxxx

Rielly. Brodie
McCabe lilly
Gio. Timmins

Xxxx
Woll

Plenty of space probably will want to upgrade 1 d (4-5 million) Sammy 3-4 million. 4th line 3 million. And now you have about 8 million for a winter and a 3c

Doesn’t Muzzin’s cap hit have to be on the roster on the first day of the season?

 

[Some Other Flame]

There will be no ban that's ridiculous

Eh, not really. After the Flyers signed Weber to an offersheet, the Preds ownership allegedly blocked a deal or two between the two teams in the years afterwards.

Did Nashville ownership block a trade with Philadelphia?

Throughout the summer of 2014, rumors were swirling about Vincent Lecavalier becoming a Predator. It turns out we weren’t aware just how close those rumors were to coming into fruition…

www.ontheforecheck.com

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Eh, not really. After the Flyers signed Weber to an offersheet, the Preds ownership allegedly blocked a deal or two between the two teams in the years afterwards.

Did Nashville ownership block a trade with Philadelphia?

Throughout the summer of 2014, rumors were swirling about Vincent Lecavalier becoming a Predator. It turns out we weren’t aware just how close those rumors were to coming into fruition…

www.ontheforecheck.com

Blocking 1 trade does not count as a total ban.

 

[Junohockeyfan]

Doesn’t Muzzin’s cap hit have to be on the roster on the first day of the season?

Yes, but the Leafs would be allowed to exceed the cap by his cahphit. And as a result, they are unable to "bank" capspace over the course of the season.

 

[Nanuuk]

Murray Edwards is a remarkably small & petty man with a poor hockey mind. The most recent example of that can be seen in him blocking Treliving from interviewing around the league because the latter refused to re-sign. Yes, that's right; despite Treliving's horrid asset management over the years, Edwards was desperate to have him stay.

So basically, if/when Treliving becomes the Leafs GM, good chance Edwards straight up blocks Conroy from trading with the Leafs. At least for a few years.

"You want our ageing cap dumps? Well, **** you buddy. Go sign your own."

Yeah you're reading too much into that. There could be legitimate reasons why Treliving was initially blocked from having conversations with other teams.

 

[seanlinden]

Markstrom is not a cap dump.

He is one of the best goalies in the league coming off a Vezina runner up.

They aren't rebuilding. They don't rebuild.


They are getting the legit starter they wanted for the last 10 years. They are trading someone who can't stay healthy who they regret signing.

The Leafs retain and add. It's not smart to think otherwise.

Markstrom is a 33 year old goalie coming off an 2.92/ .892 year... there's nothing Vezina about that.

As for the rebuild vs. not... that's of course a much more interesting debate.... they're basically at the cap with an 18-man roster that was not good enough. They've got a substnatial number of impending UFAs, including guys likely looking for raises in Lindholm and Hanifin.

If there's a year for Calgary to use to try and hit "the reset button", this is probably it.

 

[Some Other Flame]

Yeah you're reading too much into that. There could be legitimate reasons why Treliving was initially blocked from having conversations with other teams.

Such as?

They blocked it, got criticized for being petty, probably got denied interviews because of it, the back tracked. It's pretty obvious what happened.