Proposal: Jack Eichel to Anaheim 4 Fair Value

[BlueSeal]

Buffalo should find a way to void his contract and be done with this. There’s no value there and he’s rocking a 10m price tag.

 

[bsu]

d
Uh what?

Perreault is lookin really good
Comtois already showing he can be a top 6 winger, with upside from there
our 1st will be lottery at least next year, if not 2023 too
and dostal is a top 10 goalie prospect in the league

Even without the conditional 1st.... thats 4 1st round assets lol

Best id do now is
Lacombe
Tracey
2022 1st(top 10 protected)
conditional 2023 1st(becomes 2nd if eichel doesnt play at least 75% of games)

That is a really bad offer. Like not even realistic at all.

 

[dracom]

That is a really bad offer. Like not even realistic at all.

i bet it's a better offer than whatever Eichel ends up being traded for.

 

[Ducks in a row]

The Ducks are rebuilding so they need to continue to build through the draft and not trade for a player who is currently unhealthy to play requiring surgery (the kind the play wants is different from what his team wants) and is not happy playing for teams that aren't a playoff team.

I don't want Eichel on the Ducks.

 

[haseoke39]

Can someone explain exactly why Buffalo prefers the fusion? What are the actual risks for Eichel with the Disc replacement?

That the disc breaks and he ends up paralyzed. That most NHL team doctors agree and won't medically clear him to play with it.

 

[bsu]

i bet it's a better offer than whatever Eichel ends up being traded for.

The Sabres are not going to trade Eichel for a package that includes not a single player that has even proven to be NHL quality.

 

[DavidBL]

That the disc breaks and he ends up paralyzed. That most NHL team doctors agree and won't medically clear him to play with it.

thank you.

 

[kinghock]

That the disc breaks and he ends up paralyzed. That most NHL team doctors agree and won't medically clear him to play with it.

And fusion has 100 % success rate?

 

[haseoke39]

And fusion has 100 % success rate?

Nope, but it's the established standard treatment for pro athletes. Only two athletes in the world, AFAIK, have gotten disc replacement, and neither of those guys had to get cleared by a team doctor. No one in any of the major pro sports has gotten it. No one who had to convince a sports doctor who would be responsible for the treatment's failure. Even the one guy who champions this treatment for Jack said he wouldn't let a football player get it. It's a way less proven treatment, and the sabres have doctors who actually helped develop this technology, so when they say it's not safe, it's a pretty important opinion.

Personally, i wouldn't be shocked if getting this surgery ended Jack's career, just because we don't know for sure if there's an NHL medical staff that would clear him for contact with this in his spine. I don't think Jack knows either.

So yeah, he's worth way less than nothing, imho, until he can agree on a treatment with an NHL medical staff. All he is right now is a $50m problem.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Well, no team is going to trade for an injured Eichel. That’s why a deal is not done.

Teams would be far more likely to trade for him if the price went down, you know to the price of what an injured Eichel would go for. There’s a lot less risk in trading for an injured asset when you’re paying a greatly reduced price. Other teams might even be open to letting him have the artificial disk replacement surgery that he wants, as reported by Friedman.

The point remains that it’s well documented that Adams’ asking price is that of a healthy Eichel and if that doesn’t drop, then a deal won’t get done. Adams is negotiating in bad faith and tanking Eichel’s value day by day. Teams know this and aren’t going to pay what he wants for Eichel. Eichel is more than likely going to sit the season out, then his NMC kicks in next July, which takes away even more leverage from Adams.

The best thing for Adams to do would be to take a lesser package and get what he can get, or let him have the surgery and hope he comes back healthy and plays well.

With that said, I highly doubted Eichel would play another game for the Sabres before all of this happened. After? It has a snowball’s chance in hell of happening.

 

[LeHab]

Nope, but it's the established standard treatment for pro athletes. Only two athletes in the world, AFAIK, have gotten disc replacement, and neither of those guys had to get cleared by a team doctor. No one in any of the major pro sports has gotten it. No one who had to convince a sports doctor who would be responsible for the treatment's failure. Even the one guy who champions this treatment for Jack said he wouldn't let a football player get it. It's a way less proven treatment, and the sabres have doctors who actually helped develop this technology, so when they say it's not safe, it's a pretty important opinion.

Personally, i wouldn't be shocked if getting this surgery ended Jack's career, just because we don't know for sure if there's an NHL medical staff that would clear him for contact with this in his spine. I don't think Jack knows either.

So yeah, he's worth way less than nothing, imho, until he can agree on a treatment with an NHL medical staff. All he is right now is a $50m problem.

There is a great 40 min interview with the specialist who recommended Eichel this procedure.

Why Eichel Wants a Disc Replacement | Podcasts - Sportsnet.ca

A summary is also here: Insight on Eichel's side of neck surgery debate with Sabres

Talks about a few other pro athletes who underwent this procedure. No Pro hockey players, only HS and College hockey level.

 

[duckpuck]

Can someone explain exactly why Buffalo prefers the fusion? What are the actual risks for Eichel with the Disc replacement?

Buffalo should find a way to void his contract and be done with this. There’s no value there and he’s rocking a 10m price tag.

How is this better than trading him for "something"?

That the disc breaks and he ends up paralyzed. That most NHL team doctors agree and won't medically clear him to play with it.

Nope, but it's the established standard treatment for pro athletes. Only two athletes in the world, AFAIK, have gotten disc replacement, and neither of those guys had to get cleared by a team doctor. No one in any of the major pro sports has gotten it. No one who had to convince a sports doctor who would be responsible for the treatment's failure. Even the one guy who champions this treatment for Jack said he wouldn't let a football player get it. It's a way less proven treatment, and the sabres have doctors who actually helped develop this technology, so when they say it's not safe, it's a pretty important opinion.

Personally, i wouldn't be shocked if getting this surgery ended Jack's career, just because we don't know for sure if there's an NHL medical staff that would clear him for contact with this in his spine. I don't think Jack knows either.

So yeah, he's worth way less than nothing, imho, until he can agree on a treatment with an NHL medical staff. All he is right now is a $50m problem.

Lots to unpack in here. But I'm most curious about your claim that "most NHL team doctors agree and won't medically clear him to play with it." You know this how? Also, what is the basis for your claim that Eichel might be paralyzed if he plays with the disk replacement? I've never seen that reported as a likely occurrence (but I could be wrong).

I also think you're conflating the uncertainty of a new procedure ("we don't know if it's safe") with the claim that doctors actually say "it is not safe." Doctors - particularly those hired by a team - are going to recommend the treatment that is most conservative and provides the highest chance he can return to play. They are horribly conflicted and have a strong incentive to CYA.

Based on what I've read, it seems like the Sabres (and their doctors) are wanting Eichel to have the procedure that presents the highest chance of Eichel playing BUT that procedure also presents a certainty that Eichel will have reduced range of motion and a substantial likelihood that Eichel will have further back surgeries (and problems) for the rest of his life. I have not heard anyone dispute that the long term quality of life issues for people having fusion surgery are a major concern/issue.

At the same time, Eichel wants a procedure that: (i) preserves range of motion; (ii) substantially reduces the likelihood of additional surgeries/long term problems; and (iii) allows him to recover much faster than fusion. The downside is that Eichel might (I repeat MIGHT) have a higher chance of being reinjured. If he's not cleared (which I think is speculative but possible), then he's essentially trading his career for his long term health.

Honestly, I don't blame Eichel one bit. The fusion procedure has real long term consequences that the team and its doctors are not inclined to consider. If my doctors were telling me it is safe (which apparently his are), then I would have the disk replacement surgery and take my chances. Much more upside with this option IMO.

 

[BlueSeal]

How is this better than trading him for "something"?

You’re not trading a player that needs surgery with a 10m x FIVE year contract unless you give up assets. And Buffalo shouldn’t be doing that.

Teams won’t give you value on that at all given all the circumstances around him.

The most value in this situation IS what you’re paying him.

Voiding his contract puts 10m back in the coffer and allows Buffalo more money to grow their build. Eichel is becoming a distraction, including in the locker room.

So cut your losses.




Lots to unpack in here. But I'm most curious about your claim that "most NHL team doctors agree and won't medically clear him to play with it." You know this how? Also, what is the basis for your claim that Eichel might be paralyzed if he plays with the disk replacement? I've never seen that reported as a likely occurrence (but I could be wrong).

I also think you're conflating the uncertainty of a new procedure ("we don't know if it's safe") with the claim that doctors actually say "it is not safe." Doctors - particularly those hired by a team - are going to recommend the treatment that is most conservative and provides the highest chance he can return to play. They are horribly conflicted and have a strong incentive to CYA.

Based on what I've read, it seems like the Sabres (and their doctors) are wanting Eichel to have the procedure that presents the highest chance of Eichel playing BUT that procedure also presents a certainty that Eichel will have reduced range of motion and a substantial likelihood that Eichel will have further back surgeries (and problems) for the rest of his life. I have not heard anyone dispute that the long term quality of life issues for people having fusion surgery are a major concern/issue.

At the same time, Eichel wants a procedure that: (i) preserves range of motion; (ii) substantially reduces the likelihood of additional surgeries/long term problems; and (iii) allows him to recover much faster than fusion. The downside is that Eichel might (I repeat MIGHT) have a higher chance of being reinjured. If he's not cleared (which I think is speculative but possible), then he's essentially trading his career for his long term health.

Honestly, I don't blame Eichel one bit. The fusion procedure has real long term consequences that the team and its doctors are not inclined to consider. If my doctors were telling me it is safe (which apparently his are), then I would have the disk replacement surgery and take my chances. Much more upside with this option IMO.

 

[Seras]

Eichel doesn't want to have issues for the rest of his life, and you can't win him over by throwing money at him or threatening him, good for him.

 

[pbgoalie]

So I really have no idea on this ?
But Ive been told quite often that
Fusions create greater stress on the joints above the repairs, often creating the need for more treatment and possibly surgery. So it certainly seems reasonable to question that.

 

[Kublakhan]

Since so many Duck fans don't even want Eichel anymore can we just lock this one up please mods.

 

[supsens]

How is this better than trading him for "something"?





Lots to unpack in here. But I'm most curious about your claim that "most NHL team doctors agree and won't medically clear him to play with it." You know this how? Also, what is the basis for your claim that Eichel might be paralyzed if he plays with the disk replacement? I've never seen that reported as a likely occurrence (but I could be wrong).

I also think you're conflating the uncertainty of a new procedure ("we don't know if it's safe") with the claim that doctors actually say "it is not safe." Doctors - particularly those hired by a team - are going to recommend the treatment that is most conservative and provides the highest chance he can return to play. They are horribly conflicted and have a strong incentive to CYA.

Based on what I've read, it seems like the Sabres (and their doctors) are wanting Eichel to have the procedure that presents the highest chance of Eichel playing BUT that procedure also presents a certainty that Eichel will have reduced range of motion and a substantial likelihood that Eichel will have further back surgeries (and problems) for the rest of his life. I have not heard anyone dispute that the long term quality of life issues for people having fusion surgery are a major concern/issue.

At the same time, Eichel wants a procedure that: (i) preserves range of motion; (ii) substantially reduces the likelihood of additional surgeries/long term problems; and (iii) allows him to recover much faster than fusion. The downside is that Eichel might (I repeat MIGHT) have a higher chance of being reinjured. If he's not cleared (which I think is speculative but possible), then he's essentially trading his career for his long term health.

Honestly, I don't blame Eichel one bit. The fusion procedure has real long term consequences that the team and its doctors are not inclined to consider. If my doctors were telling me it is safe (which apparently his are), then I would have the disk replacement surgery and take my chances. Much more upside with this option IMO.

The report I read said secondary surgury after the procedure was 10% vrs 16% but the difference did not meet statistical significance, it also said the study from Europe showed there was no difference

 

[Zach716]

I don’t want him , was just doing Buffalo a solid

You sure you don’t want Eichel? I’ve seen you post in basically every page of every thread about him for the past 3 months.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

You sure you don’t want Eichel? I’ve seen you post in basically every page of every thread about him for the past 3 months.

Team was interested, I don’t mind talking values as there was sources claiming it as a possibility…. But now he’s officially damaged goods and a head case and buffalos problem

 

[bert]

Most teams can beat the OP. Buffalo will get better. Honestly feel bad for Sabre fans. This saga needs to end.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Jack Eichel will be traded to the Ottawa Senators. You heard it here first.
Eugene will allow him to get his surgery and have him on LTIR for as long as required.

 

[Team Cozens]

Since so many Duck fans don't even want Eichel anymore can we just lock this one up please mods.

Agreed. no need for any Eichel thread till he has had surgery, played some games and traded at healthy Eichel value /////

 

[haseoke39]

How is this better than trading him for "something"?





Lots to unpack in here. But I'm most curious about your claim that "most NHL team doctors agree and won't medically clear him to play with it." You know this how? Also, what is the basis for your claim that Eichel might be paralyzed if he plays with the disk replacement? I've never seen that reported as a likely occurrence (but I could be wrong).

I also think you're conflating the uncertainty of a new procedure ("we don't know if it's safe") with the claim that doctors actually say "it is not safe." Doctors - particularly those hired by a team - are going to recommend the treatment that is most conservative and provides the highest chance he can return to play. They are horribly conflicted and have a strong incentive to CYA.

Based on what I've read, it seems like the Sabres (and their doctors) are wanting Eichel to have the procedure that presents the highest chance of Eichel playing BUT that procedure also presents a certainty that Eichel will have reduced range of motion and a substantial likelihood that Eichel will have further back surgeries (and problems) for the rest of his life. I have not heard anyone dispute that the long term quality of life issues for people having fusion surgery are a major concern/issue.

At the same time, Eichel wants a procedure that: (i) preserves range of motion; (ii) substantially reduces the likelihood of additional surgeries/long term problems; and (iii) allows him to recover much faster than fusion. The downside is that Eichel might (I repeat MIGHT) have a higher chance of being reinjured. If he's not cleared (which I think is speculative but possible), then he's essentially trading his career for his long term health.

Honestly, I don't blame Eichel one bit. The fusion procedure has real long term consequences that the team and its doctors are not inclined to consider. If my doctors were telling me it is safe (which apparently his are), then I would have the disk replacement surgery and take my chances. Much more upside with this option IMO.

Somebody asked me what the risk was. I answered. I don't know what NHL doctors will decide any more than I know whether or when the disc would break. But their opinions are themselves a serious risk to his trade value, because they can shut down his career.

The sabres can't go public with a serious condemnation of this procedure, because it's a sensitive situation and trade value would be shot. But I'm willing to infer that by this point, the fact that they're refusing him this treatment nine months after he asked for it and three months after they concluded he needed a surgery, they're tipping their hands that this is not an acceptable option to them.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Jack Eichel will be traded to the Ottawa Senators. You heard it here first.
Eugene will allow him to get his surgery and have him on LTIR for as long as required.

what's the offer?

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Agreed. no need for any Eichel thread till he has had surgery, played some games and traded at healthy Eichel value /////

Nope we had to listen to zegras +++ for last couple months now you get to deal with it