News: Jack Eichel not happy in Buffalo [JACK EICHEL MEGATHREAD] Part II

[is the answer jesus]

For a guy who wants out of his current situation, has a long list of ailments and most teams can't afford?

Yeah.

When I say prime piece, I mean the pie in the sky Lafreiere/Byfield/Zegras shit Buffalo fans are throwing around in here like its a given.

They won't sniff that.

There are some valid concerns with Eichel's health and his spat with the organization that are working against the Sabres trying to sell him right now. Which leads me to believe Buffalo keeps him. At least for now. The salary is really a non-issue. If Buffalo is trading Eichel they're bottoming out and they can take cap dumps as needed or even just useful vets to make the money work.
I don't think asking for a Zegras/Byfield/Lafreniere type is outlandish either if a team feels comfortable about Jack's health going forward. Just to play devil's advocate Mike Richards got traded for a guy who was a recent 5th overall pick in Brayden Schenn (one of the best prospects in hockey), a good young player fresh off his ELC in Simmonds and a 2nd round pick. No issues picking up his contract, no issues trading a top prospect in the game. I'd add that as good a player as Richards was I'll take Jack Eichel over him all day everyday.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

There are some valid concerns with Eichel's health and his spat with the organization that are working against the Sabres trying to sell him right now. Which leads me to believe Buffalo keeps him. At least for now. The salary is really a non-issue. If Buffalo is trading Eichel they're bottoming out and they can take cap dumps as needed or even just useful vets to make the money work.
I don't think asking for a Zegras/Byfield/Lafreniere type is outlandish either if a team feels comfortable about Jack's health going forward. Just to play devil's advocate Mike Richards got traded for a guy who was a recent 5th overall pick in Brayden Schenn (one of the best prospects in hockey), a good young player fresh off his ELC in Simmonds and a 2nd round pick. No issues picking up his contract, no issues trading a top prospect in the game. I'd add that as good a player as Richards was I'll take Jack Eichel over him all day everyday.

It's very outlandish when you take the entire situation into consideration.

Richards neither asked out of his situation, had a f***ing truck load of health concerns nor played in a time where there was a flat cap where most of the teams in the league can't afford the player with out unrealistic maneuvering. We can't just ignore these things, they exist.

Schenn may have been a top prospect, but he wasn't on a Lafreniere/Byfield level and I'd toss Zegras over him as well.

I think the Richards template is a pretty good one to follow though. A young roster player, a top prospect (but not one on the level of a Lafreniere/Byfield level) and a pick. Change the 2nd to a 1st and add another piece and we're delving into the realm of reality and what the final deal looks like.

- This is all assuming that they move him between now and the beginning of the season.

 

[57special]

If BUF does a complete and successful makeover like FLA did then they can keep Eichel, among others, and the present issue will be forgotten. I think that there is about a 25% chance that this happens. If they keep going as they are, and get another "outside the box' coach, then this situation will fester, and Eichel will be all but gone, likely for less than he is worth.

 

[Guttersniped]

It's very outlandish when you take the entire situation into consideration.

Richards neither asked out of his situation, had a f***ing truck load of health concerns nor played in a time where there was a flat cap where most of the teams in the league can't afford the player with out unrealistic maneuvering. We can't just ignore these things, they exist.

Schenn may have been a top prospect, but he wasn't on a Lafreniere/Byfield level and I'd toss Zegras over him as well.

I think the Richards template is a pretty good one to follow though. A young roster player, a top prospect (but not one on the level of a Lafreniere/Byfield level) and a pick. Change the 2nd to a 1st and add another piece and we're delving into the realm of reality and what the final deal looks like.

- This is all assuming that they move him between now and the beginning of the season.

I disagree that Richards was a completely different situation. Richards had shoulder surgery on both shoulders after the 2008-09, he only missed 3 games because he’s was a “warrior” and all that.

Richards only missed one game in his last two seasons in Philly but he needed wrist surgery after his last one. It was obvious Richards very physical style and his infamous willingness to play hurt wasn’t going do him any favors in the long term. He wasn’t a PPG player in his last two seasons, he was already hindered by injuries at 25.

Richards’ press got pretty bad, to the point of there was talk about him losing his Captaincy. It was more shocking that both he and Carter were shipped out rather than his trade itself being shocking. And then it mostly jokes about one party boy getting to go LA and the other one being shipped to Columbus.

There was no flat cap or potential herniated disk surgery, so yeah, it was definitely different. Philly was arguably concerned Richards wasn’t going to make it to the other side of his mammoth contract that ended in 2019-20 in one, fully functional piece though. Which is why it’s important, and similar to Eichel, that Richards was going to get a full NMC in 2012-13. That was another reason his trade wasn’t a surprise. (I don’t believe that was true about Carter’s deal which was another reason why his trade was surprising.)

 

[TehDoak]

It's very outlandish when you take the entire situation into consideration.

Richards neither asked out of his situation, had a f***ing truck load of health concerns

A herniated disk, while serious, is not a truck load of health concerns. It's a single concern. And it may still be fixed by rest without any surgery needed. And given that its May, he'll likely be ready for the start of the regular season.

The issue here isn't the injury itself, it's that the team and him disagree on the treatment.

nor played in a time where there was a flat cap where most of the teams in the league can't afford the player with out unrealistic maneuvering. We can't just ignore these things, they exist.

There is 81.5M in new cap space being added to the NHL economy this summer via the expansion team. Moving salaries and making room for players will be MUCH easier this summer than last year.

Schenn may have been a top prospect, but he wasn't on a Lafreniere/Byfield level and I'd toss Zegras over him as well.

I think the Richards template is a pretty good one to follow though. A young roster player, a top prospect (but not one on the level of a Lafreniere/Byfield level) and a pick. Change the 2nd to a 1st and add another piece and we're delving into the realm of reality and what the final deal looks like.

- This is all assuming that they move him between now and the beginning of the season.

You are missing the key piece here: Richards deal had NINE years remaining on it. So, while his cap hit was lower, the term remaining on the deal was much worse. The end of Eichel's contract should still be near peak production.

He also had a reputation for heavy partying/drinking, which was one of the reasons Philly even considered trading him one removed from a finals appearance.

I mean, a young NHLer (Simmonds), an elite prospect (schenn) and a draft pick was a good return for Richards considering.

But Eichel is clearly a different tier of player.

The mental gymnastics people are doing to claim that their team might get Eichel for 2 late 1st rounders, a 3rd liner, and a salary dump is fun.

He's an elite top line center who wants to be traded. He isn't overpaid, he isn't a pending UFA, and he doesn't have off ice issues other than being sick of losing. There is 1 health concern to deal with, but given his age and physical condition, it's something that should be treatable.

The only real timing issue is that he has a NMC that starts in 13 months.

Buffalo can set their price and wait for someone to meet it.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

A herniated disk, while serious, is not a truck load of health concerns. It's a single concern. And it may still be fixed by rest without any surgery needed. And given that its May, he'll likely be ready for the start of the regular season.

The issue here isn't the injury itself, it's that the team and him disagree on the treatment.



There is 81.5M in new cap space being added to the NHL economy this summer via the expansion team. Moving salaries and making room for players will be MUCH easier this summer than last year.



You are missing the key piece here: Richards deal had NINE years remaining on it. So, while his cap hit was lower, the term remaining on the deal was much worse. The end of Eichel's contract should still be near peak production.

He also had a reputation for heavy partying/drinking, which was one of the reasons Philly even considered trading him one removed from a finals appearance.

I mean, a young NHLer (Simmonds), an elite prospect (schenn) and a draft pick was a good return for Richards considering.

But Eichel is clearly a different tier of player.

The mental gymnastics people are doing to claim that their team might get Eichel for 2 late 1st rounders, a 3rd liner, and a salary dump is fun.

He's an elite top line center who wants to be traded. He isn't overpaid, he isn't a pending UFA, and he doesn't have off ice issues other than being sick of losing. There is 1 health concern to deal with, but given his age and physical condition, it's something that should be treatable.

The only real timing issue is that he has a NMC that starts in 13 months.

Buffalo can set their price and wait for someone to meet it.

It's not just the neck.

It was the neck, the core injury, the rib, the ankle. He basically rapid fired everything that was ailing him THIS season. He hasn't been a beacon of health prior to the neck issue. Theres no reason for anyone to believe that is going to change, regardless of his physical condition. Some guys are just injury prone - Everything indicates that he is one of these guys.

Also if he gets the discectomy done instead of the replacement, he will NOT be ready for the start of next season. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter all that much, but it's not something to just be glossed over. The Sabres can hold him and it may even be best for them to do that and see if he can come back, crush it next year and move him at the deadline but he has to be agreeable to that. If he sits out next season, that doesn't help his value and with the looming NMC, they don't exactly have all the time in the world. Mike Richards' reputation doesn't really matter much - It may be why he was shipped out, but there are a ton of NHL players who party. It didn't hurt his value as much as Eichel basically taking a dump on the Buffalo front office did, thats for sure.

He'll get more than a few late firsts, a 3rd liner and a salary dump, but he's not returning a Recent 1 or 2OA either. In fact, I'd be a ton of money on the eventual package being closer to the former. I've said it before, I think they'll get strong value for him, but Buffalo fans expectations for his return are absurd.

Also I wouldn't bet on Seattle eating a f*** load of salary to bail other teams out. After what Vegas did, they're going to want to try and compete ASAP even if it is a fruitless endeavor.

 

[BigKing]

RE: Richards comparisons:

- The cap is more of an issue now since the cap-circumventing contracts have been eliminated.

- Eichel is a more talented player, no doubt, but Richards carried the "warrior" and "winner" mystique. Eichel is the furthest thing from that. Lombardi wanted him so bad because of the intangibles to go along with the talent and was a GM thinking he was pretty much a player away from being a contender. Harder to be one player away nowadays and have the necessary cap space.

- Schenn was considered the best prospect in the world at the time so that was a big deal. He just dominated the WJC and was 11 points in 12 AHL games prior to the trade. It's a bit of being caught in the current moment to say he wasn't on Laff/Byfield/Zegras levels: he was a real big deal at the time. That said, he was expendable for LA since they already had a young Kopitar: Lombardi was trading who he hoped would be Mike Richards for Mike Richards. The Kings and Ducks at present would need to add Eichel to Byfield/Zegras so they are rightfully off limits, although a healthy Eichel is definitely worth them since they are unproven and Eichel is still young. He isn't healthy though.

 

[Fitzy]

There is 81.5M in new cap space being added to the NHL economy this summer via the expansion team. Moving salaries and making room for players will be MUCH easier this summer than last year.

Hadn't thought of this but it's a very valid point. Seattle could acquire some very good assets to take on some bad contracts, all while adding some veteran leadership core to their team.

 

[bleedgreen]

I think Eichel could bring back an elite prospect like Laf/Zegras/Byfield, but that might be the only big piece in the deal if that happens. One of those guys and a lower pick/prospect or maybe even a mild cap dump to help the finances. Or maybe one of those guys straight up.

 

[TehDoak]

It's not just the neck.

It was the neck, the core injury, the rib, the ankle. He basically rapid fired everything that was ailing him THIS season. He hasn't been a beacon of health prior to the neck issue. Theres no reason for anyone to believe that is going to change, regardless of his physical condition. Some guys are just injury prone - Everything indicates that he is one of these guys.

He's missed 21 games over 3 seasons prior to this year. You act like he's missing 30 games a year. Every thing other than the neck injury are common things players work through every year. Go to any playoff teams end of year pressers after a playoff series or two, and nearly half the players will rattle off 3-4 injuries they've been dealing with.

Also if he gets the discectomy done instead of the replacement, he will NOT be ready for the start of next season.

7-12 week recovery time. If he gets the procedure done in June, he'll be working out before camp starts.

In the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter all that much, but it's not something to just be glossed over. The Sabres can hold him and it may even be best for them to do that and see if he can come back, crush it next year and move him at the deadline but he has to be agreeable to that. If he sits out next season, that doesn't help his value and with the looming NMC, they don't exactly have all the time in the world. Mike Richards' reputation doesn't really matter much - It may be why he was shipped out, but there are a ton of NHL players who party. It didn't hurt his value as much as Eichel basically taking a dump on the Buffalo front office did, thats for sure.

He even said "whether that is here or somewhere else". He's not sitting out. He might pout a bit about it, but he's going to play

He'll get more than a few late firsts, a 3rd liner and a salary dump, but he's not returning a Recent 1 or 2OA either. In fact, I'd be a ton of money on the eventual package being closer to the former. I've said it before, I think they'll get strong value for him, but Buffalo fans expectations for his return are absurd.

He IS a recent 2nd OA. Yashin got 2nd OA and a teams best prospect (Chara) after sitting out an entire season. It's a number 1 center in their prime. Plenty of teams will be lining up.

Also I wouldn't bet on Seattle eating a f*** load of salary to bail other teams out. After what Vegas did, they're going to want to try and compete ASAP even if it is a fruitless endeavor.

There is a salary floor of 58.8M. They ARE going to take on boat load of salary because they have to.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Turcotte, 1st in 21 & 22, Kupari

 

[TheNumber4]

Whoops

 

[dkollidas]

I think Buffalo is better adding a multitude of smaller pieces. Valuable but not the crazy 1v1’s of Byfield/Zegras etc.

Vegas could come calling if they get bounced early. Something around Tuch/Krebs and picks for Eichel. I think Tuch would be a perfect fit on the wing here.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I think Buffalo is better adding a multitude of smaller pieces. Valuable but not the crazy 1v1’s of Byfield/Zegras etc.

Vegas could come calling if they get bounced early. Something around Tuch/Krebs and picks for Eichel. I think Tuch would be a perfect fit on the wing here.

Yea I thought Vegas was a good fit too. They aren't winning with their current center group.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

1. Nope, i don’t have a clue where and how you got this idea.

2. How does this make any sense to you? Trading Byfield/Zegras for Eichel would be instant upgrade to their center position, so how does that change their supporting cast? How would Byfield/Zegras have any better supporting cast in the same team?

3. Irrelevant

1. Do you live under a rock? Lafreniere was projected to be a 100 point player

2. You think Buffalo would accept Zegras 1 for 1? No they would ask for 4 other relevant pieces likely including #2 this year and/or their 1st next year. 5 years later Eichel walks after continuing to not play relevant hockey

 

[Fjordy]

Turcotte
Vilardi/Kaliyev
Grans/Faber
2021 1st

FTFY

 

[KingsOfThe805]

FTFY

Eichel and Dahlin

 

[Fjordy]

Eichel and Dahlin

It would have cost a lot more. Dahlin is the most untouchable player in Buffalo right now, and I didn't even ask Byfield.

 

[Mosby]

Using the Yashin trade as a comparable 20 years after the fact hahah.

 

[dkollidas]

Yea I thought Vegas was a good fit too. They aren't winning with their current center group.

Exactly, but they’ve shown how hungry they are to win by the trades they’ve made. This is right up their alley. Tuch is also a perfect fit for what Buffalo is looking for and Krebs can help fill that center depth as well. The picks also help the organization moving forward.

 

[BigKing]

FTFY

Turcotte/Vilardi/Grans/2021 1st (8th as it currently stands) probably works for me. If the Kings move way up in the draft though, things get different.

 

[KingsOfThe805]

Turcotte/Vilardi/Grans/2021 1st (8th as it currently stands) probably works for me. If the Kings move way up in the draft though, things get different.

No way Blake gives up both Turcotte and Vilardi. Has to be one or the other.

 

[SFKingshomer]

No way Blake gives up both Turcotte and Vilardi. Has to be one or the other.

I'd give both, Grans, and our 21 1st. Still leaves us with Eichel, Kopi, Byfield, JAD down the middle with Kempe, and Kupari capable of playing center.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I have no problem with Eichel wanting out. Its not like he's done absolutely nothing for the sabres

 

[KingPuckChoo]

ah man, trading for Eichel only for him to come and cry in LA

such a gamble, don't know how to feel about this if Blake pulls the trigger

it will cost a lot and the contract is pretty significant... what a risk