Proposal: J.T. Miller to TOR

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Haven't read the entire thread but I would just like to add that Kerfoot has:
6-24-30 points not counting the PP which he doesn't play much of while Miller has:
10-14-24 points not counting the PP. Miller has 20 PP points and Kerfoot has 1.

Kerfoot plays on the 4th highest scoring team in the NHL.

Miller plays on the 21st highest scoring team in the NHL.

Wow leafs fans is context this damn hard?

 

[Ziggdiezan]

You're really missing the point I cant help you

If you had a point you didn't make it well

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Kerfoot plays on the 4th highest scoring team in the NHL.

Miller plays on the 21st highest scoring team in the NHL.

Wow leafs fans is context this damn hard?

That wasn't the original statement, the OP even said that he likely wouldn't put those numbers up on Vancouver. However that doesn't change the fact he has scored more points than any Vancouver forward not named JT Miller.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Kerfoot plays on the 4th highest scoring team in the NHL.

Miller plays on the 21st highest scoring team in the NHL.

Wow leafs fans is context this damn hard?

I am not sure if you are asking me specifically or you want replies from all Leaf fans. Any way, no it is not hard to understand that the Leafs have a high scoring team. In fact, one way the the Canucks can improve on their 21st place is to get players from higher scoring teams. It doesn't have to be Kerfoot, nor does it have to be from the Leafs teams in the top ten might suffice. I hope that helps you understand.

 

[Yackiberg8]

Who cares if its factually true given context.

He's throw in on this team and would be completely redundant. We have more than enough middle six guys, which is exactly what Kerfoot is.

Not really sure what you’re getting at here. I said something that you admit is true and somehow this equates to me not knowing about other teams?

I didn’t say it was a good deal for either team and certainly wouldn’t do it from Leafs perspective.

Only thing I said was Kerfoot was more than a nothing piece as the poster I responded to stated. This was proven by the fact that Kerfoot would have the most points on the Canucks (forwards) if the trade was made.

 

[Morgs]

For the Canucks, yah, it is an easy pass.

It would be hilarious if the Canucks passed on a guy who has destroyed a 3rd pairing role to some of the best metrics in the league at 21 (and looks very good in a top-4 role), a guy who put up a ~0.8 PPG in the AHL at 19, a 1st round pick, and a middle-6 F AS A THROW IN that has more points than any player on the Canucks besides Miller and Hughes, for less than two years of Miller. I mean, to each their own, but it's such an overpayment I'm failing to understand how any Canucks fan could be saying no regardless of fit

 

[settinguptheplay]

I have 1 thousand dollars worth of Beans. I want to trade it for $1000 worth of Wheat so I can help complete my recipe. I am offered 1000 dollars worth of Oats. I say thank you but no thanks. I already have all the Oats that I need at this time. I really just need Wheat. I am sure there are plenty of others that will value your Oats. I am not saying they do not have value. I just need Wheat.

Really is as simple as that. All this talk of value is pointless. The trade fails on its structure. Not the sum of its parts.

 

[sens13]

lol kerfoot has 3o good games and now he's pretty close to miller. never change leaf fans.

good thing gm's aren't' idiots that just look at 30 games to evaluate a player instead of their track record.

 

[sens13]

It is factually true that he would instantly become their leading scorer this season amongst forwards. Nobody said he would be their best forward. Point is he isn’t a nothing piece when he would have the most forward points on your team.

he had 30 good games. 30 good games does not make him a great player. you are ignoring the fact that before this season he was a #3c

Teams look at more than 30 games to evaluate players. How is that so hard for your to understand? No one I mean no one is taking kerfoot over players like horvat/boeser/pettersson. Yes he had 30 good games but why are you ignoring the context?

 

[Morgs]

I have 1 thousand dollars worth of Beans. I want to trade it for $1000 worth of Wheat so I can help complete my recipe. I am offered 1000 dollars worth of Oats. I say thank you but no thanks. I already have all the Oats that I need at this time. I really just need Wheat. I am sure there are plenty of others that will value your Oats. I am not saying they do not have value. I just need Wheat.

Really is as simple as that. All this talk of value is pointless. The trade fails on its structure. Not the sum of its parts.

And this would make sense if the value wasn't so lopsided. You would trade your $1000 worth of beans for $2500 worth of oats even if you didn't want oats. If the Oats weren't what you wanted, you could trade the $1000 of damn oats for the $1000 of wheat you needed later.

A typical player like Miller is usually traded for a 1st + good prospect + cap dump/low-end NHL player. In this scenario we're giving up essentially the value of 3 first round picks (I'd argue Sandin is worth more than that at the moment) AND a middle-6 F that would absolutely be worth assets on the open market. Fit doesn't make logical sense when a trade is so insanely lopsided.

 

[sens13]

Not really sure what you’re getting at here. I said something that you admit is true and somehow this equates to me not knowing about other teams?

I didn’t say it was a good deal for either team and certainly wouldn’t do it from Leafs perspective.

Only thing I said was Kerfoot was more than a nothing piece as the poster I responded to stated. This was proven by the fact that Kerfoot would have the most points on the Canucks (forwards) if the trade was made.

not sure if you know how to read but miller has more point that kerfoot.

Regardless of that only leaf fans value kerfoot this high because other teams actually use context which you don't seem to understand

 

[Morgs]

lol kerfoot has 3o good games and now he's pretty close to miller. never change leaf fans.

good thing gm's aren't' idiots that just look at 30 games to evaluate a player instead of their track record.

Nobody in their right mind thinks this?

We're saying he's not a cap dump like it was claimed, and we're saying that he's a good middle-6 player, because he is.

not sure if you know how to read but miller has more point that kerfoot.

Regardless of that only leaf fans value kerfoot this high because other teams actually use context which you don't seem to understand

He pretty clearly says "if the trade was made" which means Miller would no longer be a Canuck. Dude just stop.

 

[sens13]

And this would make sense if the value wasn't so lopsided. You would trade your $1000 worth of beans for $2500 worth of oats even if you didn't want oats. If the Oats weren't what you wanted, you could trade the $1000 of damn oats for the $1000 of wheat you needed later.

A typical player like Miller is usually traded for a 1st + good prospect + cap dump/low-end NHL player. In this scenario we're giving up essentially the value of 3 first round picks (I'd argue Sandin is worth more than that at the moment) AND a middle-6 F that would absolutely be worth assets on the open market. Fit doesn't make logical sense when a trade is so insanely lopsided.

lol no one is giving a 1st for kerfoot

 

[sens13]

Nobody in their right mind thinks this?

We're saying he's not a cap dump like it was claimed, and we're saying that he's a good middle-6 player, because he is.

The poster I replied too thinks kerfoot has massive value.

Good middle 6 players are worth like a 2nd especially ones with inflated stats

 

[Morgs]

lol no one is giving a 1st for kerfoot

When did I say he was worth a 1st round pick? I'm legitimately wondering if you can read at this point.

 

[sens13]

When did I say he was worth a 1st round pick? I'm legitimately wondering if you can read at this point.

Maybe you should check if you can read since you can't see that leaf fans think kerfoot has massive value.

Yes you didn't say he was a worth a 1st but your acting like he's such a big piece in the trade so obviously your implying he must be worth so much.

Did you miss how wrote AND in all caps to emphasize that you are also adding a middle 6 forward like that must be so much value your adding.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

That wasn't the original statement, the OP even said that he likely wouldn't put those numbers up on Vancouver. However that doesn't change the fact he has scored more points than any Vancouver forward not named JT Miller.

Who the f*** cares if he wouldn't put up the same numbers here?

And he wouldn't, not even close

Using that as a reason that we should trade for him is ludicrous.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

I am not sure if you are asking me specifically or you want replies from all Leaf fans. Any way, no it is not hard to understand that the Leafs have a high scoring team. In fact, one way the the Canucks can improve on their 21st place is to get players from higher scoring teams. It doesn't have to be Kerfoot, nor does it have to be from the Leafs teams in the top ten might suffice. I hope that helps you understand.

Are you being purposely obtuse here? Or are you really that arrogant?

 

[Morgs]

Maybe you should check if you can read since you can't see that leaf fans think kerfoot has massive value.

Yes you didn't say he was a worth a 1st but your acting like he's such a big piece in the trade so obviously your implying he must be worth so much.

Did you miss how wrote AND in all caps to emphasize that you are also adding a middle 6 forward like that must be so much value your adding.

You quite literally just said "Good middle 6 players are worth like a 2nd especially ones with inflated stats", which is a lot more than you're leading on in trade terms. You don't even have a dog in this fight, and you're arguing about nothing based on the fact you can't read. Just log off man.

 

[sens13]

Are you being purposely obtuse here? Or are you really that arrogant?

there arrogant. leaf fans think they have the best team in the league until they'll get bounced again in the first round and then start crying

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Not really sure what you’re getting at here. I said something that you admit is true and somehow this equates to me not knowing about other teams?

I didn’t say it was a good deal for either team and certainly wouldn’t do it from Leafs perspective.

Only thing I said was Kerfoot was more than a nothing piece as the poster I responded to stated. This was proven by the fact that Kerfoot would have the most points on the Canucks (forwards) if the trade was made.

He isn't much more than a throw in on our team, felt like you were insinuating that he would be a top line forward on this team, or that his value is indicative of his point totals, both of which are ridiculous points, if that's not what you meant than my apologies.

 

[sens13]

You quite literally just said "Good middle 6 players are worth like a 2nd especially ones with inflated stats", which is a lot more than you're leading on in trade terms. You don't even have a dog in this fight, and you're arguing about nothing based on the fact you can't read. Just log off man.

Yes there worth a 2nd. a 2nd is not a major piece in a jt miller trade like leaf fans are acting. Not to mention that the majority of leaf fans are acting like he's worth more than 2nd and has massive value.

that's my point.

Maybe you should log off since you can't comprehend basic facts but it's pretty obvious it's your bias that you cant' see all the posts where leaf fans are acting that kerfoot has massive value.

Just scroll up a bit.

The weird thing is I wasn't even replying to you. I was replying to the guy who thought kerfoot had massive value. Why did you jump in even when it doesn't concern you and you don't understand the context?

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

It would be hilarious if the Canucks passed on a guy who has destroyed a 3rd pairing role to some of the best metrics in the league at 21 (and looks very good in a top-4 role), a guy who put up a ~0.8 PPG in the AHL at 19, a 1st round pick, and a middle-6 F AS A THROW IN that has more points than any player on the Canucks besides Miller and Hughes, for less than two years of Miller. I mean, to each their own, but it's such an overpayment I'm failing to understand how any Canucks fan could be saying no regardless of fit

Look up the word redundant bud, that's what he is to us.

 

[settinguptheplay]

It would be hilarious if the Canucks passed on a guy who has destroyed a 3rd pairing role to some of the best metrics in the league at 21 (and looks very good in a top-4 role), a guy who put up a ~0.8 PPG in the AHL at 19, a 1st round pick, and a middle-6 F AS A THROW IN that has more points than any player on the Canucks besides Miller and Hughes, for less than two years of Miller. I mean, to each their own, but it's such an overpayment I'm failing to understand how any Canucks fan could be saying no regardless of fit

Because there is not a single piece there that would push this team any closer to a playoff spot. With the possible exception of the 1st round pick. So should Vancouver trade what is possibly the best trade chip they have had in over a decade for an assortment of pieces that don't move the needle?

Who is Sandin replacing? Hughes? OEL? If he is playing 3rd pairing there is no value for us. It does not move the needle.

Robertson has some real question marks surrounding his health and durability. As a small forward that is cause for concern. Has proven nothing in the NHL. He might... but again... You are trading away your best trade piece. An unproven small recently injured winger is not the dream piece you imagine it to be. At least to other teams. We need something proven in this deal. Robertson is not that. We are ok with Garland and Hoglander as our small skilled wingers.

I actually like Kerfoot. But, like Sandin, he just does not move the needle as it is not at a position of need. Could he be breaking out late in his career like Miller has and become a 60+ point player? I just don't think so. I could be wrong. Admittingly. But again we need something proven in this deal. Kerfoot is traditionally a 40 point guy. And I suspect he would be that in Vancouver. We have enough of those types. Not saying they are bad players. Please understand that. They are just not the pieces this team needs.

 

[settinguptheplay]

And this would make sense if the value wasn't so lopsided. You would trade your $1000 worth of beans for $2500 worth of oats even if you didn't want oats. If the Oats weren't what you wanted, you could trade the $1000 of damn oats for the $1000 of wheat you needed later.

A typical player like Miller is usually traded for a 1st + good prospect + cap dump/low-end NHL player. In this scenario we're giving up essentially the value of 3 first round picks (I'd argue Sandin is worth more than that at the moment) AND a middle-6 F that would absolutely be worth assets on the open market. Fit doesn't make logical sense when a trade is so insanely lopsided.

Perhaps if Toronto wants Miller they might trade 1000 of their Oats to get some Wheat and then make the trade. Keeping the additional 1500 Oats to themselves. Your example is poor due to the exaggerated costs of your goods. Toronto is not offering 2.5 times value on Miller.

The open market generally refers to soon to be UFA's. Miller still has an additional year on his contract at a very friendly 5.25. That is good for 2 playoff runs. So if 1 playoff run is worth a 1st and a good prospect what is the additional year on a cheap contract and 2nd playoff run worth? I suggest at least another 1st. Hence the often talked about three 1sts in value. But going back to the trade. Value is only 1 aspect of the trade. Fit is another. And has been mentioned repeatedly in this thread the pieces being offered are a poor fit.

Value is fine. Fit is not. Nothing to get defensive over.