Value of: Ivan Provorov

phil162888

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Jul 28, 2012
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Sanheim has been better than Provorov( unless you value pure defensive stats like "shots blocked") for a long time. Like.. 4 years running, basically.

Check on on the Flyers board- you know, where the users mostly watch the games and can gauge performance- and well happily dissect our players performance for you.

This narrative isn't even close when You consider who either player has really played with in that time frame
Give me a break.... this was the first season Sanheim was better (he had a solid season defensively for the first time and really played well when AV got fired) and that's a good thing btw.... Sanheim being a top 2 type dman is great for the Flyers..... These pseudo Flyer fans that feel they have to slam Provorov in the name of Sanheim are pathetic.... There's a few like you on the Flyer board doesn't mean the entire fan base thinks the same way..... If your a true Flyer fan you should hope and want both to excel....
 

phil162888

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Jul 28, 2012
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Unless its for another top 2 young dman it would be a huge mistake for the Flyers to trade Provy....We have no one that can replace him so why the hell would you trade him lol..... then again Fletcher did feel signing Risto was a priority so who the hell knows... now if Ellis does come back and is healthy and somehow York looks like he could play in the top 4 than Provy may be expendable but trading him this off season would be a huge f*** up imo... Trading dmen when their just entering their prime never works out for the team doing the trading......
 

JUSTGIROUXIT

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Apr 16, 2020
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Sanheim has performed better statistical results without a 'top D man' as his partner, while the organization continues to search for Provorovs unicorn partner.

Provorov is a perfectly fine D man... In a 2nd pairing role, or if you're going to put him on a leash and let him be carried around as has been in thrle case in the past with Ghost, Niskanen, and Sanehim.

This whole narrative that Provorov has been carried by a "top dman" is hilarious. Acting as though Niskanen and Ghost were top dmen is insane to me. 2 posts directly following mine are talking about Matt Niksanen... Like I said, all he needs is a capable partner and the guy will flourish. Carried around on a leash with Niskanen and Ghost, okay. Not sure there's even a sense in a conversation here.

I've followed both Sanheim and Provorov since jr. and their days in the W. Stating Sanheim is a far better player is complete nonsense. When we look at metrics do we consider usage or competition? Evidently not. Both are solid dmen in their own right, and make a solid 2/3 on majority of teams. I don't believe either is suited for a true #1 role, nor do I think there's a massive gap in terms of ability between the two players. For me, I take Provorov 100/100 over Sanheim any day of the week.

Nice that Sanheim has finally found some stability with a partner after years of a revolving door as we've seen on the Flyers top pairing since the departure of Niskanen. There's something to be said about having a capable partner on the back-end. If we look into what's actually been happening within the organizational structure for years now it's plain to see that it's been a glaring issue across all pairings, the d structure on this team has been mediocre at best. I believe with a healthy Ellis in the lineup it would allow Flyers dmen 1-6 to carve out definitive spots/pairings on a nighty basis.
 

phil162888

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Jul 28, 2012
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Is there some other Provorov on the Flyers I don't know about?

Provorov was gifted chance after chance of being a #1 defender on the Flyers and flopped. He's a decent defender but he relies on his partner to push the offense. He's also not a power play quarter back or even worthy of being on a power play.
Gifted lol....more like we had no one else.... Niskanan retired....Sanheim and Myers were terrible in 2020-2021. Provorov was the #1 on the Flyers because he was their best D on a team with shitty D..... He is not a #1 PP guy I agree but he definitely could be a great #2PP player. He's the only D man on the current roster that has a good shot from the point.... people forget how good Provorov was the year with Niskanan and how good he was with Ellis in those 4 games...... he's proven he can't carry a shitty D partner is true but playing with someone capable he's proven to be as good as we'd hoped for... I wouldn't move him even if he asked for a trade.... Hope Ellis is healthy and see if they perform well together (the reason you traded for Ellis anyway)....its a no brainer but with Fletcher nothing is a no brainer lol

This whole narrative that Provorov has been carried by a "top dman" is hilarious. Acting as though Niskanen and Ghost were top dmen is insane to me. 2 posts directly following mine are talking about Matt Niksanen... Like I said, all he needs is a capable partner and the guy will flourish. Carried around on a leash with Niskanen and Ghost, okay. Not sure there's even a sense in a conversation here.

I've followed both Sanheim and Provorov since jr. and their days in the W. Stating Sanheim is a far better player is complete nonsense. When we look at metrics do we consider usage or competition? Evidently not. Both are solid dmen in their own right, and make a solid 2/3 on majority of teams. I don't believe either is suited for a true #1 role, nor do I think there's a massive gap in terms of ability between the two players. For me, I take Provorov 100/100 over Sanheim any day of the week.

Nice that Sanheim has finally found some stability with a partner after years of a revolving door as we've seen on the Flyers top pairing since the departure of Niskanen. There's something to be said about having a capable partner on the back-end. If we look into what's actually been happening within the organizational structure for years now it's plain to see that it's been a glaring issue across all pairings, the d structure on this team has been mediocre at best. I believe with a healthy Ellis in the lineup it would allow Flyers dmen 1-6 to carve out definitive spots/pairings on a nighty basis.
Great post and bang on assessment from another fan that has watched both since they were in junior...
 

thedjpd

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Dec 12, 2002
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This whole narrative that Provorov has been carried by a "top dman" is hilarious. Acting as though Niskanen and Ghost were top dmen is insane to me. 2 posts directly following mine are talking about Matt Niksanen... Like I said, all he needs is a capable partner and the guy will flourish. Carried around on a leash with Niskanen and Ghost, okay. Not sure there's even a sense in a conversation here.

I've followed both Sanheim and Provorov since jr. and their days in the W. Stating Sanheim is a far better player is complete nonsense. When we look at metrics do we consider usage or competition? Evidently not. Both are solid dmen in their own right, and make a solid 2/3 on majority of teams. I don't believe either is suited for a true #1 role, nor do I think there's a massive gap in terms of ability between the two players. For me, I take Provorov 100/100 over Sanheim any day of the week.

Nice that Sanheim has finally found some stability with a partner after years of a revolving door as we've seen on the Flyers top pairing since the departure of Niskanen. There's something to be said about having a capable partner on the back-end. If we look into what's actually been happening within the organizational structure for years now it's plain to see that it's been a glaring issue across all pairings, the d structure on this team has been mediocre at best. I believe with a healthy Ellis in the lineup it would allow Flyers dmen 1-6 to carve out definitive spots/pairings on a nighty basis.
This is bang on. The whole narrative that Provorov was carried to be a #1D - and who are these awesome players that elevated somebody to 1D status? Matt Niskanen and Shayne Ghostisbehere. Who aren’t even close to 1D themselves. I’ve never heard of middle pairing Dmen so good to raise others to 1Ds but not be those themselves.

Here’s what Provorov is:

He’s a minute munching, 2 way dman who can absolutely be a 1D on a contender. When can he be this 1D? When he at least has a mediocre partner. He is not a Hedman or Makar where he can carry a slug and still be dominant. He won’t fight for a Norris. But he can absolutely lead a top pair. Just not with a bottom pair guy. If you give him just a middle pair guy, he’ll be great. If we give him an actual top pair guy? He’ll be dominant. We saw it, briefly, this year.
 

Starat327

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May 8, 2011
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Is there some other Provorov on the Flyers I don't know about?

Provorov was gifted chance after chance of being a #1 defender on the Flyers and flopped. He's a decent defender but he relies on his partner to push the offense. He's also not a power play quarter back or even worthy of being on a power play.

You're like, just a hater, dude.

Hey, @Striiker you want a good laugh?
 
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Lindberg

Bennyflyers16 get a life
Oct 5, 2013
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Gifted lol....more like we had no one else.... Niskanan retired....Sanheim and Myers were terrible in 2020-2021. Provorov was the #1 on the Flyers because he was their best D on a team with shitty D..... He is not a #1 PP guy I agree but he definitely could be a great #2PP player. He's the only D man on the current roster that has a good shot from the point.... people forget how good Provorov was the year with Niskanan and how good he was with Ellis in those 4 games...... he's proven he can't carry a shitty D partner is true but playing with someone capable he's proven to be as good as we'd hoped for... I wouldn't move him even if he asked for a trade.... Hope Ellis is healthy and see if they perform well together (the reason you traded for Ellis anyway)....its a no brainer but with Fletcher nothing is a no brainer lol

He's is not good at the top of the umbrella. He's got a decently deceptive shot that is best utilized in transition and on the rush. I think you're forgetting how many chances he got on the #1 PP and didn't produce time and time again.

Sanhiem should have been stapled to the power play after Ghost but that never materialized.
 
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phil162888

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Jul 28, 2012
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He's is not good at the top of the umbrella. He's got a decently deceptive shot that is best utilized in transition and on the rush. I think you're forgetting how many chances he got on the #1 PP and didn't produce time and time again.

Sanhiem should have been stapled to the power play after Ghost but that never materialized.
You wrote gifted the #1 D...... that is not true....gifted the #1PPQB you could definitely argue....Travis did have opportunities and never produced.... his decision making isn't any quicker than Provorov and he doesn't have a big shot which is why they picked Provy... York likely will get first crack next year. He doesn't have a big shot either but he is much quicker than Provy and Travis on moving the puck....I'm not arguing that Provorov is a true #1 PPQB because he's not but I think the PP set up was an even larger issue than Provorov or Sanheim.... Hell Ghost who is a solid PPQB was struggling in our PP
 

Adtar02

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Apr 8, 2012
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I think provy has been coached away from what he is good at. He was a beast at open ice hits and rubbing players out on the boards. Which he doesn’t do anymore.

He was very good at challenging entries. Usually when he had a partner who could cover. Ghost was one. They were fire together. Provy would separate the player from puck and ghost would go get it.

Provy looks way worse because we’ve had coaching that doesn’t allow players to play to their strengths. Square peg round hole coaching.
 

Tripod

I hate this team
Aug 12, 2008
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I think provy has been coached away from what he is good at. He was a beast at open ice hits and rubbing players out on the boards. Which he doesn’t do anymore.

He was very good at challenging entries. Usually when he had a partner who could cover. Ghost was one. They were fire together. Provy would separate the player from puck and ghost would go get it.

Provy looks way worse because we’ve had coaching that doesn’t allow players to play to their strengths. Square peg round hole coaching.
The angling of players into the boards happened so many times early on. Now, barely happens.

I do wonder how ALL our defense....and team defense, would look under a guy like Trotz. We lack the high end scorers to go up against most teams, so winning 2-1 might be the only way to win. Yay, more boring hockey!
 

Guitpik

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Jul 8, 2006
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Very curious what the return for Provorov would be around the league if Philly was to deal him this offseason. Would a 1st rounder + a prospect be too much of an ask from a team like LA?
Rather talk Sanheim to LA.
 

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