Confirmed with Link: Ivan Provorov Signs Extension - 6 Years/$40.5M ($6.75AAV)

Ginger Papa

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I can't wait to leave work, pick up Borderlands 3 and the new Toasted Cheddar Chalupa from taco bell, go home and put my Provorov jersey (and nothing else) on, and live my best life.

Congratulations all Philly fans on the signing. I really like seeing these young talents get locked in for 5+ years. I love watching this guy make the stretch pass like Pronger used to.

Full disclosure: I primarily cheer for all the Canadian teams, but ultimately I cheer for good hockey players.

Hoping the rest of the RFA’s sign before puck drop!
 

MacDonald4MVP

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But all of their numbers are still better with Couturier, which was my only point.

I'm not complexly sure what you're trying to argue here, but all I was saying was of course numbers look better with Couturier, since he's so damn good. Hard to imagine someone doing better without him than with him, regardless of who they're playing against.
This whole thing started with me asking if we should be worried if provys advanced stats don't take an uptick.
 

Striiker

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This whole thing started with me asking if we should be worried if provys advanced stats don't take an uptick.
Oh, well I just made a general response to someone mentioning that everyone is better with Couturier. I wasn't really following along with the conversation before that.
 

Curufinwe

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For what my opinion is worth, Sam Morin looked pretty bad in drills on Saturday. A small sample size I know, but he stood out as making a few terrible passes, tripping over himself once, and not knowing where he was supposed to be. I was really hoping he would look like he belongs.
That being said, Hagg looked great in drills, so maybe drills aren’t everything.

Meltzer said the same thing about Morin on Saturday.
 

MacDonald4MVP

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Oh, well I just made a general response to someone mentioning that everyone is better with Couturier. I wasn't really following along with the conversation before that.
Crazy how we are going yet to another season chokeful of question marks.
Hart's sophomore year
Elliotts breaking body
Provy, Ghost and Hayes coming of some wild years not being sure which version we will get to see
Two new declining shutdown d away from their stacked teams
New coaching
Hurt Patrick
 

Striiker

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Crazy how we are going yet to another season chokeful of question marks.
Hart's sophomore year
Elliotts breaking body
Provy, Ghost and Hayes coming of some wild years not being sure which version we will get to see
Two new declining shutdown d away from their stacked teams
New coaching
Hurt Patrick
I'm extremely optimistic about the team overall, even if some I have doubts about specific individuals.
 

MacDonald4MVP

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I'm extremely optimistic about the team overall, even if some I have doubts about specific individuals.
For sure, but there's no way we will get to watch best case scenario on all of these and it kinda is interesting as how things will shake up and if our coaches adjust at all or go full Jeff.
 
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Rebels57

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Crazy how we are going yet to another season chokeful of question marks.
Hart's sophomore year
Elliotts breaking body
Provy, Ghost and Hayes coming of some wild years not being sure which version we will get to see
Two new declining shutdown d away from their stacked teams
New coaching
Hurt Patrick

Every single team has question marks. Many have a lot more than we do.
 

Striiker

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Every single team has question marks. Many have a lot more than we do.
Really every player is a question mark in pro sports...

There's very few sure things and any season can be derailed if unpredictable things happen, like key players getting injured. If we lose a guy like Giroux or Couturier our playoff chances drop dramatically.
 

dragonoffrost

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For what my opinion is worth, Sam Morin looked pretty bad in drills on Saturday. A small sample size I know, but he stood out as making a few terrible passes, tripping over himself once, and not knowing where he was supposed to be. I was really hoping he would look like he belongs.
That being said, Hagg looked great in drills, so maybe drills aren’t everything.

Morin didn't impress me Sunday except for one battle with Ratcliffe. That thud was down right amazing when those two goliaths crashed into the boards in front of the bleachers.

Braun on the other hand had a huge day in my eyes. His work at the blue line with his body and stick denying entries was very impressive.
 

Beef Invictus

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I've noticed that he will start rough and then noticeable errors dry up. He's improved as games have gone on.

I didn't have a problem with him getting the nod over Sanheim in 6v5, for instance, because though he'd started with some gaffes, by the end of the game he was looking competent and effective.
 

Magua

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Ivan has been rock solid so far -- along with much of the team in the underlying #s -- but per usual, he sees most of his time with Couturier. He's getting individual results too. But his leash is so long, his usage never goes down no matter the process or results. At a certain point, results are inevitable. Because he's a very good player. No one is surprised at his peaks, although regression will hit (not a dirty word, just reality -- if anything, he's too fortunate with the metrics and not fortunate enough with the results).

I know he has 3 PP points, which is already more than last season, but it's the evaluative hill I'll die on saying he's our 3rd best PP defenseman, and that he's already seeing PP1 minutes in crunch time worries me long-term, when Sanheim hasn't seen a lick of PP action (how many great passes has he made in the o-zone so far?), and Ghost is always 1 mistake away from punitive action.

For now, I trust my 250 games of data and opinion (plus juniors). His offensive strength has always been off the rush as an entry player and shooter below the dots, not set-up or controlling the puck. In a base set-up, he really isn't a playmaker, and he tends to play stationary with little deception. None of his 3 points really change my opinion on that (an entry pass to TK who then threated it to Lindblom; a great slapper albeit from the blue line; a basic umbrella one timer pass to Voracek, who uncharacteristically roofed it, on the RIGHT mind you). If he becomes an elite PP producer, egg on face. And he still has the talent to be a beast at ES. But I don't think his PP time exists in a vacuum, relative to role and contract. To quote a recent post:

  • Travis Sanheim had 5 PP points in 84 minutes last season....Provorov had 2 PP points in 128 minutes, 1 of which was on a goal by Sanheim, who never QB'd the unit alone
  • The season before, Provorov had 5 PP points in 147 minutes. 3 of those PPP Giroux recorded a point on as well, 1 other point was off a Gostisbehere goal
  • 3/5 of Provorov's PP points in 2016-2017 were also scored with the 1st unit. In summary: that's 5 PP points out of 12 PP points scored with the 2nd unit across 3 years of non-stop PP usage. Sanheim had 5 in one season, and little more than half a season of PP usage at that
  • Of all NHL defensemen with at least 200 PP minutes the last 3 seasons -- Ivan is at 414 minutes -- Provorov is dead last with 1.74 points/60, and that includes his 1st unit time. 2nd worst is Vlasic with 2.26 points/60. Changing the parameters to >300 minutes? Next worst is Shea Theodore at 2.86 p/60
 

Alex K

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He looks so calm and confident out there in all three zones, and this confidance spreads out to the rest of the team, that's exactly what you need from your #1 defenceman.
 
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Curufinwe

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Appleyard

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Ivan has been rock solid so far -- along with much of the team in the underlying #s -- but per usual, he sees most of his time with Couturier. He's getting individual results too. But his leash is so long, his usage never goes down no matter the process or results. At a certain point, results are inevitable. Because he's a very good player. No one is surprised at his peaks, although regression will hit (not a dirty word, just reality -- if anything, he's too fortunate with the metrics and not fortunate enough with the results).

What I always think is interesting is a lot of his micro-stats at 5v5 are fantastic.

Shot attempts
Zone entries
Zone exits
Zone denials

Every single area of those he has been first pairing level over his time in the league.

Yet his underlying stats are just "solid" given usage. Maybe something to do with the below, and playing ~40% of career minutes with one or the other...

full


I mean, his pairing with Ghost was elite (though Ghost has also had amazing stats his whole career) and his pairings with Sanheim and Streit were above average.
 
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Appleyard

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So maybe, JUST MAYBE, it would be smart to put Provorov-Ghost back together!??!?!!??!!?!??!!?!?!?!


Nahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :laugh:

I mean, at least they have options now.

I think Braun is an clear upgrade on AMac+Hagg... even if Ghost, Niskanen and Sanheim might likely be better pairings.

Though I do understand spreading the talent as well. Just wish Myers was up and in over Hagg... then they would arguably have no defensemen who were a net negative. (though Myers IS still unproven even if is too good for the AHL.)
 

deadhead

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Problem is who do you pair Myers with while he grows up.
He's a puck dominant player but so are Provorov, Sanheim and Ghost.
Which may be part of his problem, Myers has to learn to play without the puck and defer to more experienced partners.

It's similar in any sport, at lower levels talented players dominate on skill, then when they hit the highest pro level, they find that they're no longer head and shoulders above everyone else (except for a small handful of players like McDavid) and the mental part of the game becomes far more important.
 

Striiker

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I mean, at least they have options now.

I think Braun is an clear upgrade on AMac+Hagg... even if Ghost, Niskanen and Sanheim might likely be better pairings.

Though I do understand spreading the talent as well. Just wish Myers was up and in over Hagg... then they would arguably have no defensemen who were a net negative. (though Myers IS still unproven even if is too good for the AHL.)
I think we easily have enough talent where we can have that potentially elite top pair AND still not have a trash bottom 4. Sanheim, Niskanen, and Myers can be 3/4 of a very very good bottom 4.

Plus, I'd rather have a great top pair and not waste a great defensemen like Ghost, even if it means the bottom 4 is ever so slightly weaker, which I don't believe it would be. Just toss Hagg in the river, bring up Myers, and we're in good shape. That's another reason I didn't like adding Braun, he's just another RD and we don't need that. I'd have MUCH preferred to add a vet LD (if they were dead set on adding someone) and run Provorov-Ghost Sanheim-Niskanen Whoever-Myers. That would've been a sick D core.

This whole "let Ghost play against weaker competition" nonsense is ridiculous because it ignores that 1) he definitely doesn't need to be sheltered, and 2) his weaker quality of teammates makes a far bigger negative impact than playing against weak competition adds a positive one.
 
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