Prospect Info: Ivan Demidov (2024 5th OA): SKA St. Petersburg (KHL)

[WeThreeKings]

You missed the point! And I didn’t say Ovi was or wasn’t generational?

You inferred he wasn't because of the GP. But era adjustment shows that if Ovechkin played in Gretzky's era, he would have blown out Gretzky's goal totals a long time ago.

 

[BJCOLLINS]

You inferred he wasn't because of the GP. But era adjustment shows that if Ovechkin played in Gretzky's era, he would have blown out Gretzky's goal totals a long time ago.

I inferred nothing. I stated Gretz, Mario & Orr’s numbers would be untouchable if they played 1700+ gms like players are doing now.

You don’t understand that?

Gordie Howe was the greatest of the 40+ players….todays game would be a dance for some of the legends.

 

[1909]

I think Bedard would had loved if Hawks would had taken Demidov at #2 last draft. Not only Habs make errors at the draft table.

 

[Kennerback]

To that i will answer, look at Crosby

Has he ever produced more than 120 pts in his career? And he had a stacked team, playing with Malkin and was more powerful and overall a better player than Bedard is or will ever be.

Crosby went through concussions. 100%, Bedard imo is more prone into getting seriously injured and its also something im taking into the equation.

The guys who are producing 100 pts+ are playing a different game, they're so much stronger, quicker, faster, efficient. I dont think one bit he'll ever reach that level of hockey. Regardless of possible future injuries, he's not that type of player and he'll never be... i mean he's slow, if only he had speed in his game i would say maybe.

I think there’s some adjustments going on where Bedard can and can’t take his shot from in the NHL. He should become more and more dangerous… Maybe because Celebrini played in College instead of Juniors he had a head up in the pro transition over Bedard. To me, Bedard’s speed is more than enough and just as good as Celebrini’s and there’s nothing that indicates he’ll stop progressing. But who knows?

 

[LaP]

A lot people these days are influenced by the #’s players are putting up not recognizing the # of games played. Very few of the top twenty five pts leaders can compare to Mario or Bobby and they’ve played 800 more gms. Orr, Mario & Gretz didn’t play 1700+ gms but if they had their all time goal record would not be close to anything Ovi is doing. I like Ovi but we have to reasonable. Generational talent, IMHO, is a shorter list than most.

Still there should be at least one generational player by generation minimum. That's the definition of the word. If not then we should use another word to describe the concept.

 

[Colezuki]

Top line winger, generational or whatever argument is going on in here isn't relevant, have a kaprizov like impact on the team and we're rolling. that's what im hoping for

 

[ahmedou]

Hi HFHabs family,

Is there HFHabs member living in Russia (Saint Petersburg, etc). If yes let me know please.

I'd like to order Demidov's jersey from SKA Store.

Cheers,



Ahmedou

 

[Kennerback]

Top line winger, generational or whatever argument is going on in here isn't relevant, have a kaprizov like impact on the team and we're rolling. that's what im hoping for

The only player that’s really been called generational outside of fans of the player’s NHL team was Bedard. Not Celebrini. Not Demidov or others.

But unlike the other generational players like Crosby or McDavid who were also anointed pre-draft with the moniker, Bedard’s stumbled a bit. That’s despite being the top scorer on his team and being not far off PPG. But it might just be a blip in the big picture.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I inferred nothing. I stated Gretz, Mario & Orr’s numbers would be untouchable if they played 1700+ gms like players are doing now.
ays game
You don’t understand that?

Gordie Howe was the greatest of the 40+ players….todays game would be a dance for some of the legends.

That just is not true. Gordie's generation featured NHLers who would struggle to be AHLers in today's game. This is why, to a man they all say that today's players are much better than their generation.....just watch the video lol. Players who were atrocious skaters and handled the puck like a grenade made up the majority of the league. Goalies were all terrible as the trade had yet to escape from the prison of idiot coaches who dictated like most dinosaurs do the way in which to play despite not having the knowledge to support their dumb truisms.

McDavid hits 200 points if he played when Mario and Wayne were playing.

I am old enough to have watched Wayne and Mario's entire career and I have love for that generation as that is where my fondest hockey memories lie, but......if we are being honest, there were 50 goal scorers who would be lucky to hit 30 goals nowadays and some like Maruk might not even be NHLers in today's game.

Hockey has a much larger pool to draw from today, as in multiple orders of magnitude as well as infinitely better developmental systems, training and nutrition. There is a solid argument to be made that players from these generations would be even better but the problem is that the kids with the most ability may never have played hockey back then. In Howe's generation there were far more families who relied on their kids to carry on the family business, especially farming and were never encouraged to try and play pro as well as the one's who did play and were never discovered.

 

[Frankenheimer]

You inferred he wasn't because of the GP. But era adjustment shows that if Ovechkin played in Gretzky's era, he would have blown out Gretzky's goal totals a long time ago.

Yes but if goalies and defensemen from Gretzky's era trained in our era, and then returned back to their era to face a future Ovi who travelled too far into the past and had to eat borscht everyday and stand in line in below 30 temperature for toilet paper, then I think Gretzky would have emerged victorious as that Ovi would only have been 165lbs.

 

[the valiant effort]

Send The Nuge back to 1987 and I bet he racks up 600 pts (by Christmas)

 

[DAChampion]

Demidov - Suzuki - Laine
Caufield - Dach - Slafkovsky

I do wonder if that would be a better top six than what people normally assume.

 

[LV426]

I thought this was a Demidov thread. I'm sorry, I'll see myself out.

 

[CHwest]

That just is not true. Gordie's generation featured NHLers who would struggle to be AHLers in today's game. This is why, to a man they all say that today's players are much better than their generation.....just watch the video lol. Players who were atrocious skaters and handled the puck like a grenade made up the majority of the league. Goalies were all terrible as the trade had yet to escape from the prison of idiot coaches who dictated like most dinosaurs do the way in which to play despite not having the knowledge to support their dumb truisms.

McDavid hits 200 points if he played when Mario and Wayne were playing.

I am old enough to have watched Wayne and Mario's entire career and I have love for that generation as that is where my fondest hockey memories lie, but......if we are being honest, there were 50 goal scorers who would be lucky to hit 30 goals nowadays and some like Maruk might not even be NHLers in today's game.

Hockey has a much larger pool to draw from today, as in multiple orders of magnitude as well as infinitely better developmental systems, training and nutrition. There is a solid argument to be made that players from these generations would be even better but the problem is that the kids with the most ability may never have played hockey back then. In Howe's generation there were far more families who relied on their kids to carry on the family business, especially farming and were never encouraged to try and play pro as well as the one's who did play and were never discovered.

Skating, skating and skating. Very few in that era could skate like the average skater does now, conditioning as well, todays athletes are other worldly. Some in that era could adapt to todays game but I'd bet it's less than half.

 

[rahad]

Still there should be at least one generational player by generation minimum. That's the definition of the word. If not then we should use another word to describe the concept.

Is a team sport. It should be more like Generational Center, Winger, Defenseman and Goalie. You can also add GM and Coach. I find it hard to not to consider player like Ovechkin, Jagr, Orr, Nicklas Lidstrom or Patrick Roy not be considered generational.

Is kinda funny that all the ''generational'' player are center from the Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby and McDavid.

 

[DAChampion]

Is a team sport. It should be more like Generational Center, Winger, Defenseman and Goalie. You can also add GM and Coach. I find it hard to not to consider player like Ovechkin, Jagr, Orr, Nicklas Lidstrom or Patrick Roy not be considered generational.

Is kinda funny that all the ''generational'' player are center from the Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby and McDavid.

Since you're largely quoting my list, I didn't include Orr since he was from long before my time.

 

[the valiant effort]

”Orr spins away looking for space but Pezzetta’s got him by the balls.”

 

[DAChampion]

Hockey has a much larger pool to draw from today, as in multiple orders of magnitude as well as infinitely better developmental systems, training and nutrition. There is a solid argument to be made that players from these generations would be even better but the problem is that the kids with the most ability may never have played hockey back then. In Howe's generation there were far more families who relied on their kids to carry on the family business, especially farming and were never encouraged to try and play pro as well as the one's who did play and were never discovered.

The sport clearly draws from more countries, but within Canada I'm not sure if it's actually probqing more of the talent. Sports are less accessible to the working and middle classes today.

I think Gretzky knew how to skate at age 2 or 3, or something like that, that's exceedingly rare today.

 

[akratique]

Hi HFHabs family,

Is there HFHabs member living in Russia (Saint Petersburg, etc). If yes let me know please.

I'd like to order Demidov's jersey from SKA Store.

Cheers,



Ahmedou

Lutch USA

Order Custom Hockey Jersey, Hockey Equipment and Any Sports Uniforms

lutchusa.com

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Send The Nuge back to 1987 and I bet he racks up 600 pts (by Christmas)

Considering you could hook and hold and if you looked at someone slightly off you got jumped by a dude who could beat the living f*** out of every NHL player without taking a break I'd say nah.

 

[LaP]

Is a team sport. It should be more like Generational Center, Winger, Defenseman and Goalie. You can also add GM and Coach. I find it hard to not to consider player like Ovechkin, Jagr, Orr, Nicklas Lidstrom or Patrick Roy not be considered generational.

Is kinda funny that all the ''generational'' player are center from the Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby and McDavid.

I think anyone who doesn'T consider Ovy as generational is out of his mind. The guy will soon be the player with most goals in NHL history.

 

[the valiant effort]

Considering you could hook and hold and if you looked at someone slightly off you got jumped by a dude who could beat the living f*** out of every NHL player without taking a break I'd say nah.

The Nuge’s nutritional advantage would help him zig and zag to success as opposing dmen succumb to scurvy and anemia.

 

[Toene]

That just is not true. Gordie's generation featured NHLers who would struggle to be AHLers in today's game. This is why, to a man they all say that today's players are much better than their generation.....just watch the video lol. Players who were atrocious skaters and handled the puck like a grenade made up the majority of the league. Goalies were all terrible as the trade had yet to escape from the prison of idiot coaches who dictated like most dinosaurs do the way in which to play despite not having the knowledge to support their dumb truisms.

McDavid hits 200 points if he played when Mario and Wayne were playing.

I am old enough to have watched Wayne and Mario's entire career and I have love for that generation as that is where my fondest hockey memories lie, but......if we are being honest, there were 50 goal scorers who would be lucky to hit 30 goals nowadays and some like Maruk might not even be NHLers in today's game.

Hockey has a much larger pool to draw from today, as in multiple orders of magnitude as well as infinitely better developmental systems, training and nutrition. There is a solid argument to be made that players from these generations would be even better but the problem is that the kids with the most ability may never have played hockey back then. In Howe's generation there were far more families who relied on their kids to carry on the family business, especially farming and were never encouraged to try and play pro as well as the one's who did play and were never discovered.

I agree with the spirit of your post, as I think the depth of teams has increased greatly. I have no difficulty imagining the 2025 Blackhawks destroying the Gilbert Perreault Sabres (random example of a good team from the past) something like 15-2. Any fourth liner of today is a top-notch athlete in a remarkable shape, with fine tuned fundamentals, discipline and a solid knowledge of hockey systems and strategy. A fourth line of today could eat alive any line from the vintage era.

That said, the top talent will always compare. My argument for that is based on the most reliable measuring standard known to man : the Jagr-o-meter. Jaromir Jagr is the superstar player who played in both the early 90s and the late 2010s. He's been a clear bridge between that old generation and the present one. Would a prime Jagr dominate in today's game? I'd argue he'd contend for an Art Ross year in, year out. Maybe you don't agree. Imo he was always a beast. Well, as good as Jagr was in the 90s, there were still some 80s veterans playing during that time who directly faced Jagr on a rink and looked amazing too.

And those vets, they played against a still dominant 80s Larry Robinson, for example, who himself played his prime in the 70s with and against the stars of that time, and some looked as good or better than him. Emphasis on the word look. I know you said that some high-producing players of back then would suck today, that much is true, that's why I'm talking in terms of eye-test. Have you ever seen tapes of Bobby Orr? Train this guy from birth with the methods of today and heal his knees with the medical prowess of our time and he's a perennial Norris contender like Makar.

Back to Big Bird, it's not a stretch to say that a physical specimen with skill like him couldve been a great player if he had his prime in the 90s in an alternate universe. If he could do that, then a slightly older player could probably do it, and so on.

So, yes, today's players are just much better trained, prepared and fed than the pornstache era players, but the cream will always rise to the top, no matter the era. There's a limit at some point too. A player wouldnt score 10 a game. Well, maybe Ovie against the 1975 Caps. Lol.

 

[windycity]

I think anyone who doesn'T consider Ovy as generational is out of his mind. The guy will soon be the player with most goals in NHL history.

Him and Crosby from that generation though Crosby is still the better overall player

 

[Jurivan Demidovsky]

Caufield - Suzuki - Demidov
Slafkovsky - Dach - Laine