Boston Bruins IV-Rumors, Trade Proposals, Speculation, etc.. (rumors must have recognized source/link)

[DominicT]

Smith and coyle both have 3 even strength goals and to ritchies 1 even strength goal. Ritchies production has been very dependent of playing with bergeron and Marchand on the power play.

Is it really secondary scoring if you are scoring on the top power play unit?

All goals count equally.

Where would they be if they were at the league average in 5 on 5 goals and powerplay goals?

It doesn't matter how the goals come, it matters that the goals come. Ritchie wasn't brought in to be a 5 on 5 dynamo, he was brought in to be the net front presence he has become, both on the PP and 5 on 5. He's doing in in spades. Cause shit in front of the net and let your linemates take advantage of that. That speaks more to his linemates than his own 5 on 5 production doesn't it?

 

[MattFromFranklin]

Smith and coyle both have 3 even strength goals and to ritchies 1 even strength goal. Ritchies production has been very dependent of playing with bergeron and Marchand on the power play.

Is it really secondary scoring if you are scoring on the top power play unit?

I completely understand that concern, and I share it too. We're on the 5th or 6th straight season of an incomplete 2nd line, so we need all the goals we can get. And yes, Ritchie is killing it on the powerplay, but at least he's actually putting the puck in the net when he's on the PP. Krejci has ZERO goals and he has received PP time.

 

[UncleRico]

All goals count equally.

Where would they be if they were at the league average in 5 on 5 goals and powerplay goals?

It doesn't matter how the goals come, it matters that the goals come. Ritchie wasn't brought in to be a 5 on 5 dynamo, he was brought in to be the net front presence he has become, both on the PP and 5 on 5. He's doing in in spades. Cause shit in front of the net and let your linemates take advantage of that. That speaks more to his linemates than his own 5 on 5 production doesn't it?

Im not saying all goals don’t count equally. You are missing the context of what I’m saying. Ritchies production has been a result of the power play. He’s been on the power play due to injuries of pastrnak and now krejci.

When krejci is healthy if he resumes his position on the first power play unit, Ritchies production will without a doubt take a hit. Since he has only one even strength goal this year. If he gets taken off the power play, his numbers are sustainable when 70% of his point production to this point in the season is on the power play.

 

[BruinDust]

He was basically PJ axelsson with better point production for us, but for some reason he was hated.

But he's not PJ Axelsson, not even close. He may look like he's playing the same style as Axelsson with his stick and positioning, but he's never played the role Axelsson had in the NHL. Never.

PJ was in his time a top PK winger, and a top defensive winger tasked often with shutting down opposing players. Like Heinen, he could step-up in the event of injuries to play with two strong offensive players and not look awful because he was so smart.

And that is the issue with Heinen in the NHL. He can't carve out a role or niche on a team. These "jack-of-all-trades" types are useful players to have on a roster, but no one should be surprised when they go from a scoring line straight to the press box and back again.

What is Danton Heinen in the NHL?

Goal scorer? Nope

Playmaker? A little bit.

Grinder? No

Physical player? Not him.

PKer? Doesn't appear to be.

PP specialist? Yeah um no.

Defensive specialist? Not the way he's been used thus far.

Line Driver? Not a chance

Complimentary player on a scoring line? To a degree yes.

Part of a checking line? I don't think so.

So basically Heinen's best usage thus far IMO has been as a interim stop-gap complimentary winger with two stronger offensive players. So if you have a dynamic duo and you need a good complimentary winger for them, Heinen should be an option.

But if your top 2 lines are solidified, and your bottom lines consist of pluggers and grinders, I don't see a place for Heinen, because he's not going to be successful playing with lesser players than him IMO. His role on the 2019 cup finalist team was good for him. Kept him off the top 2 scoring lines, but played with two better offensive players in Coyle and MoJo. On a deep contending team he's a #9 NHL forward. As in I want my other 8 forwards on lines 1/2/3 to be better than him.

As a #9 Forward with two better linemates, give him some PK duty and sprinkle in a little bit of PP time, and he'd be in a position to succeed IMO.

 

[SPLBRUIN]

Never understood the hate for Heinen. Since 2018 among LW's he's 58th in points while also being a steady defensive forward. In fact among LW's with at least 80GP since 2018 he has the 3rd lowest GA/60 among LW's and 6th in xGA/60 among LW's. Sure he doesn't throw bone crushing hits and isn't flashy, but the guy is a better than people make him out to be.

I'll tell you why, it's because he regressed offensively, in his last year here he was getting a ton of time on our 1st PP unit and the guy still couldn't score to save his life, I have never seen a guy miss as many grade A chances that he did. Besides his scoring woes, his total passivity in the corners, lack of passion and seemingly nonchalant attitude about things, well these traits don't endear you to Bruins fans.

 

[DominicT]

Im not saying all goals don’t count equally. You are missing the context of what I’m saying. Ritchies production has been a result of the power play. He’s been on the power play due to injuries of pastrnak and now krejci.

When krejci is healthy if he resumes his position on the first power play unit, Ritchies production will without a doubt take a hit. Since he has only one even strength goal this year. If he gets taken off the power play, his numbers are sustainable when 70% of his point production to this point in the season is on the power play.

Krejci was on PP1 because of injuries or when Cassidy decided to go with 5 forwards. It was never his position on PP1 and hasn't been for years. When everyone is healthy, Krejci anchors PP2 not PP1. They want a net front presence on PP1 and that is Ritchie. Krejci is not taking that spot.

An I am understanding what you are saying. I don't care where his points come from, only that they come. He is doing what is asked of him, cause shit in front of the net, both 5 on 5 and the PP. If the puck isn't going in, that has as much to do with his linemates as him.

 

[RoccoF14]

I'll tell you why, it's because he regressed offensively, in his last year here he was getting a ton of time on our 1st PP unit and the guy still couldn't score to save his life, I have never seen a guy miss as many grade A chances that he did. Besides his scoring woes, his total passivity in the corners, lack of passion and seemingly nonchalant attitude about things, well these traits don't endear you to Bruins fans.

I can't understand why people get so worked up over Danton Heinen (pro or against) to begin with.

The guy was a fourth round draft pick, who turned into a solid but unspectacular NHL player. The amount of time and energy people put into slamming or defending him, is mind boggling.

 

[UncleRico]

But he's not PJ Axelsson, not even close. He may look like he's playing the same style as Axelsson with his stick and positioning, but he's never played the role Axelsson had in the NHL. Never.

PJ was in his time a top PK winger, and a top defensive winger tasked often with shutting down opposing players. Like Heinen, he could step-up in the event of injuries to play with two strong offensive players and not look awful because he was so smart.

And that is the issue with Heinen in the NHL. He can't carve out a role or niche on a team. These "jack-of-all-trades" types are useful players to have on a roster, but no one should be surprised when they go from a scoring line straight to the press box and back again.

What is Danton Heinen in the NHL?

Goal scorer? Nope

Playmaker? A little bit.

Grinder? No

Physical player? Not him.

PKer? Doesn't appear to be.

PP specialist? Yeah um no.

Defensive specialist? Not the way he's been used thus far.

Line Driver? Not a chance

Complimentary player on a scoring line? To a degree yes.

Part of a checking line? I don't think so.

So basically Heinen's best usage thus far IMO has been as a interim stop-gap complimentary winger with two stronger offensive players. So if you have a dynamic duo and you need a good complimentary winger for them, Heinen should be an option.

But if your top 2 lines are solidified, and your bottom lines consist of pluggers and grinders, I don't see a place for Heinen, because he's not going to be successful playing with lesser players than him IMO. His role on the 2019 cup finalist team was good for him. Kept him off the top 2 scoring lines, but played with two better offensive players in Coyle and MoJo. On a deep contending team he's a #9 NHL forward. As in I want my other 8 forwards on lines 1/2/3 to be better than him.

As a #9 Forward with two better linemates, give him some PK duty and sprinkle in a little bit of PP time, and he'd be in a position to succeed IMO.

Heinen is an elite level defensive forward. During his career with the bruins only Andre cogliano had a lower goals against average among forwards in that three year span.

 

[sarge88]

Never understood the hate for Heinen. Since 2018 among LW's he's 58th in points while also being a steady defensive forward. In fact among LW's with at least 80GP since 2018 he has the 3rd lowest GA/60 among LW's and 6th in xGA/60 among LW's. Sure he doesn't throw bone crushing hits and isn't flashy, but the guy is a better than people make him out to be.

Maybe those numbers aren’t as important as you think.

I mean he was scratched a few times here...ended up being traded for a guy, who, at the time was potentially a bust and has now been scratched 2 games in a row in Anaheim.

I understand that we’re never allowed to question a players compete level, intensity or presentation on the ice (for lack of a better word) but maybe there is something to those things?

 

[UncleRico]

Krejci was on PP1 because of injuries or when Cassidy decided to go with 5 forwards. It was never his position on PP1 and hasn't been for years. When everyone is healthy, Krejci anchors PP2 not PP1. They want a net front presence on PP1 and that is Ritchie. Krejci is not taking that spot.

An I am understanding what you are saying. I don't care where his points come from, only that they come. He is doing what is asked of him, cause shit in front of the net, both 5 on 5 and the PP. If the puck isn't going in, that has as much to do with his linemates as him.

You say you understand what I’m saying, but by your response it is clear you don’t. I’m saying 70% of your points as power play points is not a sustainable percentage and something has to give. That’s regardless if he stays on the first power play unit or not.

 

[BruinDust]

Heinen is an elite level defensive forward. During his career with the bruins only Andre cogliano had a lower goals against average among forwards in that three year span.

Is he? Than why don't his coaches ever seem to use his "elite defensive abilities" to their advantage. He doesn't even kill penalties (even though I think he can and should).

Maybe, just maybe, some of this low GAA when Heinen is on the ice has to do with playing most of his career with the best defensive team in the NHL?

Just more fodder for the analytics crowd to cry about. They'll say "look look at his CF% or xGF or whatever" and claim it proves he's a top defensive winger. Meanwhile, here is multiple NHL coaches, who have access to the same data, who supposedly have an "elite defensive player" at their disposal but yet never use him as such. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because he's not an elite defensive forward despite what the analytics are trying to say.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Im not saying all goals don’t count equally. You are missing the context of what I’m saying. Ritchies production has been a result of the power play. He’s been on the power play due to injuries of pastrnak and now krejci.

When krejci is healthy if he resumes his position on the first power play unit, Ritchies production will without a doubt take a hit. Since he has only one even strength goal this year. If he gets taken off the power play, his numbers are sustainable when 70% of his point production to this point in the season is on the power play.

Ritchie has been on PP1 all season, regardless of Krejci's or Pasta's availability. Ritchie isn't competing for a spot with those guys because he plays the net front/down low assignment. Pasta and Krejci of course play some variation of the half-wall/point assignment. With everyone healthy they were even rolling 5 forwards for a stretch so that they didn't have to bump Ritchie off that unit and could get Krejci into the mix.

The person Ritchie has bumped off of PP1 is Debrusk and that has been the case since opening night and doesn't seem likely to change unless Ritchie's performance suddenly drops off.

 

[ON3M4N]

I'll tell you why, it's because he regressed offensively, in his last year here he was getting a ton of time on our 1st PP unit and the guy still couldn't score to save his life, I have never seen a guy miss as many grade A chances that he did. Besides his scoring woes, his total passivity in the corners, lack of passion and seemingly nonchalant attitude about things, well these traits don't endear you to Bruins fans.

He played 49 minutes with the top PP unit. Every guy on the first unit had well over 200 minutes of PP TOI. I'd hardly call roughly 25% as "a ton of time" as you say.

 

[UncleRico]

Ritchie has been on PP1 all season, regardless of Krejci's or Pasta's availability. Ritchie isn't competing for a spot with those guys because he plays the net front/down low assignment. Pasta and Krejci of course play some variation of the half-wall/point assignment. With everyone healthy they were even rolling 5 forwards for a stretch so that they didn't have to bump Ritchie off that unit and could get Krejci into the mix.

The person Ritchie has bumped off of PP1 is Debrusk and that has been the case since opening night and doesn't seem likely to change unless Ritchie's performance suddenly drops off.

guys I’m not saying whether or not he’s going to continue being on the first power play unit. I’m saying his production of having 70% of your points being on the power play isn’t sustainable unless you are producing nothing outside of the power play.

 

[ON3M4N]

Maybe those numbers aren’t as important as you think.

I mean he was scratched a few times here...ended up being traded for a guy, who, at the time was potentially a bust and has now been scratched 2 games in a row in Anaheim.

I understand that we’re never allowed to question a players compete level, intensity or presentation on the ice (for lack of a better word) but maybe there is something to those things?

Points aren't important? Weird because that seems to be the default measuring stick

As for the rest, players get scratched when the under perform and Heinen is no different. Compete, intensity, whatever you want to call it is in the eyes of the beholder. Two people can have different opinions and honestly neither of them could be wrong. People question Krejci's compete level all the time because of a facial expression lol.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Is he? Than why don't his coaches ever seem to use his "elite defensive abilities" to their advantage. He doesn't even kill penalties (even though I think he can and should).

Maybe, just maybe, some of this low GAA when Heinen is on the ice has to do with playing most of his career with the best defensive team in the NHL?

Just more fodder for the analytics crowd to cry about. They'll say "look look at his CF% or xGF or whatever" and claim it proves he's a top defensive winger. Meanwhile, here is multiple NHL coaches, who have access to the same data, who supposedly have an "elite defensive player" at their disposal but yet never use him as such. I wonder why that is? Maybe it's because he's not an elite defensive forward despite what the analytics are trying to say.

maybe stop shitting on analytics every time you see some random HFBoards poster misuse it. It's really frustrating and I think you're smarter than that.

Analytics can tell us how a guy like Heinen performs in whatever sample size of data is available. It can tell us that in certain situations (and maybe limited ice time) how he has performed. In Heinen's case he has put up strong defensive numbers in the situations he has been used in. That suggests that maybe that defensive performance might translate to other situations (like PK) or increased usage. It's not a guarantee, just a positive sign or an indicator. Analytics in this way can be used to help identify trends and see if players are being underused or might be suited to certain assignments. It's then up to a coach to do whatever they want with that data. Again, it's not a guarantee and it's up to the player to maintain that performance when given more minutes or new assignements. Anyone who uses this data to call a player an "elite defensive forward" based on limited data or narrow usage is just misusing the data. You should blame that person and not the entire field of statistics.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

guys I’m not saying whether or not he’s going to continue being on the first power play unit. I’m saying his production of having 70% of your points being on the power play isn’t sustainable unless you are producing nothing outside of the power play.

You absolutely implied that. And what a strange hill to die on - Ritchie has exceeded all expectations. Especially from the chicken littles in the offseason.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

guys I’m not saying whether or not he’s going to continue being on the first power play unit. I’m saying his production of having 70% of your points being on the power play isn’t sustainable unless you are producing nothing outside of the power play.

you literally said his PP production would dip when Krejci returns (implying Krejci would replace him on the PP). That's just not how the PP minutes have been doled out this year. Ritchie has been a fixture on PP1 all season. He's 4th on the team in PP TOI per game. He's ahead of Krejci. Krejci is really competing with Gryz & McAvoy for PP1 minutes. Those guys have no impact on Ritchie's usage. He's gonna keep getting PP1 minutes.

So yes, if he was only getting ES minutes then his production would almost certainly take a hit, but there is zero reason to believe his PP minutes are going to decrease any time soon.

 

[DominicT]

You say you understand what I’m saying, but by your response it is clear you don’t. I’m saying 70% of your points as power play points is not a sustainable percentage and something has to give. That’s regardless if he stays on the first power play unit or not.

Now you're moving the goalposts.

Serious question: Are you just looking at stats/analytics? Because 1) Krejci hasn't been on PP! for years unless the situation calls for it, and 2) Ritchie is doing exactly what he is asked to do and cause shit in front of the net.

A guy who is suppose to cause those problems for the netminder, isn't suppose to be the goal scorer, he's there so that others can score.

Example: How much better would their offense be if their defensemen could hit the damn net once in a while? You know, actually score or create second chance opportunities? They have just 2 out of 9 that have played this season hit the net on more than 50% of their attempted shots - Grzelcyk and Lauzon - and they're both injured. The blue line has scored just 4 goals this season - 32 last season, and I don't even want to get into how few second chance opportunities they've created- it's laughable. Those are the opportunities Ritchie should be banging home, or getting a stick on to deflect, or having one hit him on the way in.

Analytics is a great tool. When combined with all the analytics. But they also have to be used in combination with the eye test and a general understanding of what the player's role is.

I will leave it at that.

 

[UncleRico]

you literally said his PP production would dip when Krejci returns (implying Krejci would replace him on the PP). That's just not how the PP minutes have been doled out this year. Ritchie has been a fixture on PP1 all season. He's 4th on the team in PP TOI per game. He's ahead of Krejci. Krejci is really competing with Gryz & McAvoy for PP1 minutes. Those guys have no impact on Ritchie's usage. He's gonna keep getting PP1 minutes.

So yes, if he was only getting ES minutes then his production would almost certainly take a hit, but there is zero reason to believe his PP minutes are going to decrease any time soon.

I did not literally say when krejci returns to the first unit power play. Look at the post you quoted. It clearly says IF krejci returns to the first power play unit ritchie production will take a hit.

then I said it again in the next paragraph that IF Ritchie gets taken off the power play his numbers are not sustainable since 70% of his production is tied to power play points.

 

[ON3M4N]

maybe stop shitting on analytics every time you see some random HFBoards poster misuse it. It's really frustrating and I think you're smarter than that.

Analytics can tell us how a guy like Heinen performs in whatever sample size of data is available. It can tell us that in certain situations (and maybe limited ice time) how he has performed. In Heinen's case he has put up strong defensive numbers in the situations he has been used in. That suggests that maybe that defensive performance might translate to other situations (like PK) or increased usage. It's not a guarantee, just a positive sign or an indicator. Analytics in this way can be used to help identify trends and see if players are being underused or might be suited to certain assignments. It's then up to a coach to do whatever they want with that data. Again, it's not a guarantee and it's up to the player to maintain that performance when given more minutes or new assignements. Anyone who uses this data to call a player an "elite defensive forward" based on limited data or narrow usage is just misusing the data. You should blame that person and not the entire field of statistics.

Funny thing is no one even called Heinen an "elite defensive forward" outside of the person you're replying to lol.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

I did not literally say when krejci returns to the first unit power play. Look at the post you quoted. It clearly says IF krejci returns to the first power play unit ritchie production will take a hit.

then I said it again in the next paragraph that IF Ritchie gets taken off the power play his numbers are not sustainable since 70% of his production is tied to power play points.

"When krejci is healthy if he resumes his position on the first power play unit, Ritchies production will without a doubt take a hit"

Cool, now you're arguing semantics. The point is that you implied that Krejci returning to PP1 somehow impacts Ritchie's production. It doesn't. Krejci and Ritchie don't play the same position. There is zero correlation between Krejci returning to PP1 and Ritchie losing minutes. At this point the only person who might challenge him for his spot would be Debrusk (the guy he replaced in that spot this season). Ritchie is only gonna lose PP minutes if he starts to suck on the PP or if he gets injured.

In the meantime Ritchie is getting lots of PP time and producing. So, what are we even arguing about here?

 

[bbfan419]

No thanks even though I like Brown. Sweeney has to go for a permanent solution at 2nd RW even if the cost is fairly steep, enough of the rentals, or gambling on players like Kase to fill this gaping hole.

Agree

 

[RoccoF14]

No thanks even though I like Brown. Sweeney has to go for a permanent solution at 2nd RW even if the cost is fairly steep, enough of the rentals, or gambling on players like Kase to fill this gaping hole.

Viktor Arvidsson.......problem solved.

Gonna cost a #1 and at least 2 players, but he’s got 3 years left at $4.25mil.

 

[UncleRico]

Now you're moving the goalposts.

Serious question: Are you just looking at stats/analytics? Because 1) Krejci hasn't been on PP! for years unless the situation calls for it, and 2) Ritchie is doing exactly what he is asked to do and cause shit in front of the net.

A guy who is suppose to cause those problems for the netminder, isn't suppose to be the goal scorer, he's there so that others can score.

Example: How much better would their offense be if their defensemen could hit the damn net once in a while? You know, actually score or create second chance opportunities? They have just 2 out of 9 that have played this season hit the net on more than 50% of their attempted shots - Grzelcyk and Lauzon - and they're both injured. The blue line has scored just 4 goals this season - 32 last season, and I don't even want to get into how few second chance opportunities they've created- it's laughable. Those are the opportunities Ritchie should be banging home, or getting a stick on to deflect, or having one hit him on the way in.

Analytics is a great tool. When combined with all the analytics. But they also have to be used in combination with the eye test and a general understanding of what the player's role is.

I will leave it at that.

No im not moving the goal post at all. This was my first post in the topic today at 7:36 AM.

"With Ritchie it looks like his production will depend on how much power play time he gets. He’s benefited from Pasta and now krejci missing time. He has 5 goals and 4 assists on the power play, but only one goal and three assists even strength.

While 9 points on the power play in 16 games is very welcomed, I’m not sure it’s sustainable or a very accurate representation of overall play when 70% of your production has been a result of the man advantage.

A lot is going to depend on if he stays on the first power play unit when krejci comes back. If the Bruins take him off it then he will almost certainly see a drop in production."

Then you just came in and said I'm moving the goal post off a comment that literally said the exact same thing

"You say you understand what I’m saying, but by your response it is clear you don’t. I’m saying 70% of your points as power play points is not a sustainable percentage and something has to give. That’s regardless if he stays on the first power play unit or not."

How is that moving the goal post if im saying the same thing as I did from the start of the conversation at 7:36AM? Pretty consistently saying 70% of your power play points coming from the power play isnt sustainable IF he is on it or not going forward.