Confirmed with Link: It's Started! (Management firings)

[xlm34]

A lot of the complaints around Dubas seem to revolve around his handling of the negotiations for his core which he wouldn’t even have to deal with here, and probably wouldn’t have even been that big of a deal had the cap not unexpectedly flattened.

You can probably chalk up a lot of his mistakes to inexperience too. He’s likely learned his lesson.

 

[eXile3]

I don’t understand hiring two execs who don’t align on how to build a team. Like not arguments but just outright different philosophies toward the game.

Dubas and Shanahan seem like two people who approach the game from different perspectives.

 

[Gurglesons]

A lot of the complaints around Dubas seem to revolve around his handling of the negotiations for his core which he wouldn’t even have to deal with here, and probably wouldn’t have even been that big of a deal had the cap not unexpectedly flattened.

You can probably chalk up a lot of his mistakes to inexperience too. He’s likely learned his lesson.

He also failed to make good trades nearly every deadline outside of this one.

 

[SomeDude]

I’m all aboard the fire Sullsma train, but we can do better than Keefe.

I’d honestly keep Sully over Keefe. That’s how little I think of Keefe.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

He also failed to make good trades nearly every deadline outside of this one.

Yep.

1st for injured Foligno was tragic.

And let’s not forget his problems with goaltender assessment. If @Pens x thought Jarry/DeSmith was bad, let me introduce you to the Dubas specials of Matt Murray and Peter Mrazek…

 

[Malkinstheman]

Shame that CGY didn't go with Nonis lol

 

[SEALBound]

I don’t understand hiring two execs who don’t align on how to build a team. Like not arguments but just outright different philosophies toward the game.

Dubas and Shanahan seem like two people who approach the game from different perspectives.

Indeed. You need balance though. More importantly, you need each of those perspectives to have a willingness to learn and listen and be cooperative. Seems like Shanny wasn't as willing to learn as some.

Yep.

1st for injured Foligno was tragic.

And let’s not forget his problems with goaltender assessment. If @Pens x thought Jarry/DeSmith was bad, let me introduce you to the Dubas specials of Matt Murray and Peter Mrazek…

He signed Samsonov though too so, he did try to address the goalie problem. The problem is, there's a lack of quality goalies out there. It may be the most difficult position to staff at the moment.

Re: Dubas to Pittsburgh, I would really, REALLY want to learn more about the trades than Shanny overruled. I imagine they will discuss it during any interview but if these trades are in the mold of Sergachev for Drouin or Grandlund for 2nd (from the MTL and PIT perspective), it's extremely clear that Shanny was right to prevent them, then that's a major red flag for future employment. If the moves were more like Ghost for a 3rd or like a Sprong for Pettersson type of move, then there are a lot of positives to someone like that.

The years for Sid and Geno are quickly depleting. You need someone who can wheel and deal and fix the roster. Not "be patient and draft well".

 

[Factorial]

What a dumbass. Do Pittsburgher's actually care if somebody calls the team Pitt instead of typing out the entire damn name? Lmao.

Well, that abbreviation is wrong and anyone who has ever lived in the area would see it as wrong not that it's a big deal to me personally . I just assume they know very little about city when I see it being used. PIT is wrong too. The abbreviation for Pittsburgh is PGH.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

He signed Samsonov though too so, he did try to address the goalie problem.

The guy with the 3.13 playoff GAA and .898 SV%? I’m not sure that helps his case tbh.

The problem is, there's a lack of quality goalies out there.

Agreed, but still tough to justify throwing that kind of cash (and term) at awful goalies.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm not a Dubas/Keefe fan but I can't hang a team by the goaltender rope.

Goaltenders are a massive risk. They could have thrown money at what a ton of people considered "great options" at the time every single season and every one could have busted as bad or worse than whatever they were rolling with.

 

[pistolpete11]

Dubas is the GM, the buck stops with him. He has said as much himself. Any POHO has the capacity to call a halt if their GM is making questionable moves. And after 4 straight 1st round exits in Dubas’ first 4 years as GM, is it a surprise that some of his decisions were questioned (or overruled) by his superiors, and why the MLSE board sent him into his final year without a contract renewal?

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. The buck doesn't stop with him if his decisions are being overruled by the POHO.

I mean, Matthews, Nylander and Marner are 25/26 years old.

Tavares was already looking slow out there in the postseason, and he will be 33 and 34 years old for the next two seasons, posting an 11M cap hit while on the decline. This hampers the Leafs significantly now (their fans are already calling him an anchor), and was Dubas’ big idea. A secondary effect of the Tavares signing was that it came shortly before they had to sign their young core players, and blew up any chance of a team-controlled lower cap dynamic for their core.

So what 21 year olds do you think he should have signed instead of Tavares in 2018?

Go look at the Leafs board when they signed Tavares. It's nothing but page after page after page of Leafs fans rejoicing, praising Dubas (and Shanahan BTW), claiming they are Cup favorites, and how he actually signed for a discount. Now that it's a half decade later and it didn't work out, of course, it's all Dubas' and Tavares' fault. Just like it was all Kessel's fault before them.



Dubas isn't even my first choice for GM. I want Tulsky. I just think it's hilarious how after 5 years of calling him a boy genius, now that he's gone, the media is circling the wagons around Shanahan and the Leafs. It was Dubas who's the only one at fault! It's very Pittsburgh sports media TBH. I wouldn't be surprised to hear Dubas was spending too much time at the casinos, too!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I’d honestly keep Sully over Keefe. That’s how little I think of Keefe.

I'd rather have Keefe because:
1-He might actually try something different in how this team plays, as opposed to Sullivan insisting they keep playing like 2017 never left.
2-The chances the organization fires him if the team struggles is greater than the chances Sullivan is ever let go.

I probably should have listed #2 first, because that's a really big issue for me. With any other new coach, the rope is going to be a lot shorter. With Sullivan, for some inexplicable reason, this organization seems to view him as part of the untouchable core.

 

[pistolpete11]

Sullivan has sucked all enjoyment out of watching the Pens for me, so I'd settle for just about anybody else, Keefe included. It would probably take at least a few years for me to get sick of a new coach...unless it's like Johnston level bad.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Shame that CGY didn't go with Nonis lol

Calgary, seduced by the cheap pleasures of alliteration.

Sullivan has sucked all enjoyment out of watching the Pens for me, so I'd settle for just about anybody else, Keefe included. It would probably take at least a few years for me to get sick of a new coach...unless it's like Johnston level bad.

This is where I'm at. I don't really care about the playoff streak or deluding myself into thinking that this team is a contender (although hope springeth eternal and it would be awesome to happen).

Instead, I'd just like to watch interesting (not even "good") Penguins hockey again. Sullivan's system is boring, ineffectual, and I will think less of people who watched this team this year and said "wow, great on-ice product, thanks, that's just what I wanted!" You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[Ulf5]

Well, that abbreviation is wrong and anyone who has ever lived in the area would see it as wrong not that it's a big deal to me personally . I just assume they know very little about city when I see it being used. PIT is wrong too. The abbreviation for Pittsburgh is PGH.

Someone needs to tell the University asap.

 

[Factorial]

Someone needs to tell the University asap.

Pitt is the abbreviation for University of Pittsburgh.

 

[Ulf5]

Pitt is the abbreviation for University of Pittsburgh.

Exactly

 

[Freeptop]

Eh, as someone born and raised in Pittsburgh (lived in the city limits for the first 22 years of my life), I'm not that worked up about how people abbreviate the city's name.

I prefer Pgh, but PIT (in all caps), is the airports three-letter code, so seems reasonable to me. If people say "Pitt", and don't mean the University, it's generally obvious what they're talking about.

Just don't ever call it "Pittsburg" without the 'h' at the end!

Wait, is getting worked up over "Pitt" some sort of college sports thing?
I went to CMU, so I just generally don't have any of those associations!

 

[WickedWrister]

Jagr for GM

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Jagr for GM

Really hope there’s some discussion as to when he’s coming back for his jersey retirement.

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

Instead, I'd just like to watch interesting (not even "good") Penguins hockey again. Sullivan's system is boring, ineffectual, and I will think less of people who watched this team this year and said "wow, great on-ice product, thanks, that's just what I wanted!" You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

Come on man... have you seen our PowerPlay....

Sullivan won 2 cups, gotta be a genius with a forever contract.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too.

But I Iike cake.

The buck doesn't stop with him if his decisions are being overruled by the POHO.

It does, since every GM in the league is accountable to their POHO (unless they hold both positions simultaneously). They are all technically on a leash. And after 4 years of failure, that leash is going to get shorter (lame duck status in contract year, bad trade ideas axed, etc). That’s the nature of the gig, and is the same around the NHL. Buck still stops with the GM.

So what 21 year olds do you think he should have signed instead of Tavares in 2018?

Kind of a strawman to ask it that way, I’d say given Dubas burning through Toronto’s 2019-2022 1st round picks in a series of awful trades (after signing Tavares to a bloated contract), a better approach would’ve been to address the team’s real weakness, RHD, by using the Tavares capspace and all that draft capital (the above 4 first round picks + trading down this year) on trading for a top pairing RHD. There was no urgency either, Dubas could’ve bided his time over the months/years until the right opportunity came along.

Go look at the Leafs board when they signed Tavares. It's nothing but page after page after page of Leafs fans rejoicing, praising Dubas (and Shanahan BTW), claiming they are Cup favorites, and how he actually signed for a discount. Now that it's a half decade later and it didn't work out, of course, it's all Dubas' and Tavares' fault.

It is Dubas’ fault, he is the GM. Of course the fans get excited about a big name UFA. So did Dubas, and that’s the problem, he behaves like a fanboy instead of a GM. What other GMs are out there dropping F bombs at fans inside the arena?

Dubas is the one who was being paid handsomely to know better than the average Joe, and have the foresight to avoid, well…this *gestures* mess he’s made.

Dubas isn't even my first choice for GM. I want Tulsky.

We agree on that!

 

[Factorial]

Eh, as someone born and raised in Pittsburgh (lived in the city limits for the first 22 years of my life), I'm not that worked up about how people abbreviate the city's name.

I prefer Pgh, but PIT (in all caps), is the airports three-letter code, so seems reasonable to me. If people say "Pitt", and don't mean the University, it's generally obvious what they're talking about.

Just don't ever call it "Pittsburg" without the 'h' at the end!

Wait, is getting worked up over "Pitt" some sort of college sports thing?
I went to CMU, so I just generally don't have any of those associations!

PIT has become the de facto abbreviation in box scores on television.

As a PSU grad, I can only imagine the heartburn it would cause the faithful alumni if people started referring to them as The Lions.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Really hope there’s some discussion as to when he’s coming back for his jersey retirement.

Same day as Hextall’s statue hopefully.

 

[Andy99]

Jagr for GM

We’re really going to sign him and become the oldest team ever in league history…..