Confirmed with Link: It's Started! (Management firings)

[HandshakeLine]

It's been that way for as long as I can remember. The Pittsburgh sports media is always late with shit, and then when somebody like Seravalli or Bobby Mac says it, some dummy like Kingerski will be like "Yeah, I've been sitting on this intel for weeks, waiting to see how it played out" like they're some kinda f***ing spy or something.

Sure, bud. Sure you have.

Burn Notice except for portly sports shoe call in guys

 

[eXile3]

I just don’t see Sully surviving 3 different GMs. He won’t make it past the mid way point if we’re losing.

 

[3ladesof5teel]

So as a Liverpool fan, Chayka is probably the most literal parallel to the guy FSG brought in to make player personnel decisions when they first bought Liverpool. Damien Comolli.

Damien Comolli was a guy who generally had the right philosophy about the direction the game was going in particularly around Analytics, but was absolutely terrible at his job in the practical sense. I got the same vibes from Chayka when he was the Coyotes GM. In the Liverpool case, the owners got it right eventually.

This sounds most logical. I deal with some big businesses that have many different ways of thinking.

But these analytics businesses, you start talking their language and they drop thier panties. They love it

 

[3ladesof5teel]

I am no Sullivan fan, but it's become painfully clear that in the late stages of GMJR and the entirety of GMRH Sullivan and the GM were not on the same page, starting with the Reaves mess. The final fiasco was trading for Granlund and then Sullivan proceeding to use him as if he's Teddy Blueger.

So if we can at least get a GM and a coach who, you know, have a similar philosophy, then that might work out a little better.

This is the one thing I give Sullivan credit for. He wants to win now with the core and GMRH tiptoed around with the greenlight.

Even though he went after some big names he didn't land any and came up with the constellation prize of Granlund.

Sullivan and GMRH definitely weren't on the same page.

My issues with Sullivan are his ego, it seems more and more apparent that if he doesn't get his way, he's not doing anyone any favors and putting them in position to succeed. He has his ideas and he's sticking to them. I guess you kind of get that with many coaches at all levels they have their philosophies and that's they stick to it (sticktoitiveness) hate that word.

I think the most successful coaches are the ones that put their players in the best positions to succeed and adapt to their strengths to cover the weaknesses.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I think the most successful coaches are the ones that put their players in the best positions to succeed and adapt to their strengths to cover the weaknesses.

Ding ding ding- we have a winner. It's an immutable rule of managing people.

Do you want your accountant going in and talking to people? Do you want your unfocused sales guy crunching numbers?

I mean that's exactly what Sully is doing with Granlund and others he's had here; this is not a 1 off shortcoming.

Once people have been in a position for a certain time they get lazy and they have this heuristic that they never deviate from. Guess what? Players age and aren't the same as they were 5 years ago. Hell, I'm not the same person I was 5 years ago. Yet Sully appears to not understand this concept.

 

[Andy99]

Ranking the prominent names mentioned in the Penguins general manager search

There are some encouraging names on the list of potential candidates and some names that the Pittsburgh Penguins should avoid.

www.pensburgh.com

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Ranking the prominent names mentioned in the Penguins general manager search

There are some encouraging names on the list of potential candidates and some names that the Pittsburgh Penguins should avoid.

www.pensburgh.com

Tulsky, MacKinnon, Darche and my 4th choice would be Botterill

The others I don't really want to see here

 

[Josey Wales]

Ranking the prominent names mentioned in the Penguins general manager search

There are some encouraging names on the list of potential candidates and some names that the Pittsburgh Penguins should avoid.

www.pensburgh.com

Really Pensburgh

 

[pistolpete11]

Ranking the prominent names mentioned in the Penguins general manager search

There are some encouraging names on the list of potential candidates and some names that the Pittsburgh Penguins should avoid.

www.pensburgh.com

Scratch Dubas off the list (because he doesn't want to be here), scratch off Bowman and Chia (for obvious reasons), and bump Botts below MacKinnon....that would be my list.

I don't know why exactly, but I'd OK with Chayka as POHO, but less so with him as GM. I think breaking out of the ole boys club is a good idea, but you've still got to work with the guys in the club. I just feel like the other GMs would resent him. "Who's this young, skinny nerd who came out of nowhere to be gifted a GM job at 26 when I had to pay my dues?" Tulsky and maybe a few of the other guys are also nerds, but they at least had to work their way up through an organization before getting a GM job. Maybe irrational, but just my feeling on it.

 

[Solution]

Scratch Dubas off the list (because he doesn't want to be here), scratch off Bowman and Chia (for obvious reasons), and bump Botts below MacKinnon....that would be my list.

I don't know why exactly, but I'd OK with Chayka as POHO, but less so with him as GM. I think breaking out of the ole boys club is a good idea, but you've still got to work with the guys in the club. I just feel like the other GMs would resent him. "Who's this young, skinny nerd who came out of nowhere to be gifted a GM job at 26 when I had to pay my dues?" Tulsky and maybe a few of the other guys are also nerds, but they at least had to work their way up through an organization before getting a GM job. Maybe irrational, but just my feeling on it.

Actually, I am coming around more to the thought that Botterill would be a good choice for POHO and Tulsky for the GM. From everything I am reading Botterill is more of a tweener. He uses the eye test and the analytics both. He would be somebody the old boys would still respect and still be looking at the data. And the possibly hire Ventura in as an assistant gm. No more prof than anybody else. Just an idea.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Scratch Dubas off the list (because he doesn't want to be here), scratch off Bowman and Chia (for obvious reasons), and bump Botts below MacKinnon....that would be my list.

I don't know why exactly, but I'd OK with Chayka as POHO, but less so with him as GM. I think breaking out of the ole boys club is a good idea, but you've still got to work with the guys in the club. I just feel like the other GMs would resent him. "Who's this young, skinny nerd who came out of nowhere to be gifted a GM job at 26 when I had to pay my dues?" Tulsky and maybe a few of the other guys are also nerds, but they at least had to work their way up through an organization before getting a GM job. Maybe irrational, but just my feeling on it.

Agree with a lot of this.

My #1 reason for wanting Tulsky is that he has the highest chance of anyone to identify what is making this team lose and to actually act on it. He's a scientist, or at least was. That's how they think.
The man created analytical models the league now uses. He's gonna crunch the numbers, assess patterns, and find the weak links.
He's not gonna let emotions and attachment decide things for him. He will do what is necessary. He lived his adult life as a problem solver, and would continue to do that here.

Perfect type of GM for our situation. An ice cold, realistic assessment on what the f*** is going wrong, and what needs to be done.
A man like this would be the most likely of anyone to fire Sullivan if he decided that he's a liability. Hell, he's the most likely to even acknowledge that fact.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Scientists absolutely do not work like that though, AB. They’re just as emotional and irrational as the rest of us. What you want is Dr. Sheldon Cooper for GM, which isn’t really gonna happen.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Scientists absolutely do not work like that though, AB. They’re just as emotional and irrational as the rest of us. What you want is Dr. Sheldon Cooper for GM, which isn’t really gonna happen.

He's at least a lot smarter than an average guy. He'll spend more time poring over data. Much higher chance of happening upon the truth.
He's not gonna be the type like Hextall who kept believing our process will inevitably lead to success if they just wait long enough.

There's nothing about his work in Carolina to suggest he's irrational at this point. They make high percentage decisions. They get guys with sneaky upside.
Waddell himself has talked about how influential he is in their assessment process before making trades/acquisitions. He's the brain over there.

The best question is what would the other candidates do better than him, and how will those things lead to more success than Tulsky's team would? If there isn't a convincing answer, you hire Tulsky.

 

[Andy99]

Agree with a lot of this.

My #1 reason for wanting Tulsky is that he has the highest chance of anyone to identify what is making this team lose and to actually act on it. He's a scientist, or at least was. That's how they think.
The man created analytical models the league now uses. He's gonna crunch the numbers, assess patterns, and find the weak links.
He's not gonna let emotions and attachment decide things for him. He will do what is necessary. He lived his adult life as a problem solver, and would continue to do that here.

Perfect type of GM for our situation. An ice cold, realistic assessment on what the f*** is going wrong, and what needs to be done.
A man like this would be the most likely of anyone to fire Sullivan if he decided that he's a liability. Hell, he's the most likely to even acknowledge that fact.

Lol…brave of you…many in the media say otherwise, that Sullivan has way more power than new GM and that he’ll be here as long as he wants even though he’s stale and does not put players in positions to succeed…has anyone in the media taken him to task for the horrific loss to Chicago?

“It’s a unique circumstance, though. Sullivan is still under contract for four more years. According to a team source who spoke under the condition of anonymity, FSG views Sullivan as “their Bill Belichick.” Sullivan isn’t going anywhere for the foreseeable future. He has power.”

Yohe: The obvious choice for Penguins general manager

If Jason Botterill wants to become the next general manager in Pittsburgh, the decision for the Penguins should be easy.

theathletic.com

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Lol…brave of you…many in the media say otherwise, that Sullivan has way more power than new GM and that he’ll be here as long as he wants even though he’s stale and does not put players in positions to succeed…has anyone in the media taken him to task for the horrific loss to Chicago?

“It’s a unique circumstance, though. Sullivan is still under contract for four more years. According to a team source who spoke under the condition of anonymity, FSG views Sullivan as “their Bill Belichick.” Sullivan isn’t going anywhere for the foreseeable future. He has power.”

Yohe: The obvious choice for Penguins general manager

If Jason Botterill wants to become the next general manager in Pittsburgh, the decision for the Penguins should be easy.

theathletic.com

FSG said this summer that the new GM will have full control over coaching hires. Until I am given a reason to doubt their promises, I'll believe what they say is the plan.
Nothing about that presser suggested they don't believe in accountability. My sense is that they're gonna let the GM do what he wants.
The problem is more with their lack of experience with hockey and having bad opinions as a result of it. They formulated that opinion on Sullivan very early in their ownership here, before anyone even learned something about the sport. They were just going off conversations with Sullivan, and that aura of past championships.

 

[BillyOcean]

I still can't believe people link out to Yohe and/or Rossi.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

FSG said this summer that the new GM will have full control over coaching hires. Until I am given a reason to doubt their promises, I'll believe what they say is the plan.
Nothing about that presser suggested they don't believe in accountability. My sense is that they're gonna let the GM do what he wants.
The problem is more with their lack of experience with hockey and having bad opinions as a result of it. They formulated that opinion on Sullivan very early in their ownership here, before anyone even learned something about the sport. They were just going off conversations with Sullivan, and that aura of past championships.

Agreed, I just think they're using MS as much as possible here since he is employed. Hopefully the next GM fires him right away!!!

 

[Malkinstheman]

Sullivan is going to be under his third GM now. If the team has another bad season, Id be shocked if he isnt fired by next off season.

Also comparing Sullivan to Belichick is absolutely ludicrous. Show me when Belichick lost in the first round 4 straight years and then didnt make the playoffs.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Sullivan is going to be under his third GM now. If the team has another bad season, Id be shocked if he isnt fired by next off season.

Also comparing Sullivan to Belichick is absolutely ludicrous. Show me when Belichick lost in the first round 4 straight years and then didnt make the playoffs.

Belichick even won one round while he was with the loser-ass Browns.

I mostly agree with @AuroraBorealis on this... FSG seems extremely green and very much still learning the ropes when it comes to this sport/league. Coaching in the NHL is a FARRRRRRRRRRRR different dynamic than coaching in the NFL. Tough to even compare I think.

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

I still can't believe people link out to Yohe and/or Rossi.

 

[pistolpete11]

Actually, I am coming around more to the thought that Botterill would be a good choice for POHO and Tulsky for the GM. From everything I am reading Botterill is more of a tweener. He uses the eye test and the analytics both. He would be somebody the old boys would still respect and still be looking at the data. And the possibly hire Ventura in as an assistant gm. No more prof than anybody else. Just an idea.

I don't think POHO has a lot of interaction with other GM's, so that's why I'd be OK with Chayka there, but not as GM. Could be wrong about the responsibilities of POHO and GM, though.

Botts on his own merits would be fine, but the potential loyalty to Sullivan is a big mark in the 'con' column for me. Maybe that's not fair of me, but it would be a fear of mine if he were to be hired (as POHO or GM).

Agree with a lot of this.

My #1 reason for wanting Tulsky is that he has the highest chance of anyone to identify what is making this team lose and to actually act on it. He's a scientist, or at least was. That's how they think.
The man created analytical models the league now uses. He's gonna crunch the numbers, assess patterns, and find the weak links.
He's not gonna let emotions and attachment decide things for him. He will do what is necessary. He lived his adult life as a problem solver, and would continue to do that here.

Perfect type of GM for our situation. An ice cold, realistic assessment on what the f*** is going wrong, and what needs to be done.
A man like this would be the most likely of anyone to fire Sullivan if he decided that he's a liability. Hell, he's the most likely to even acknowledge that fact.

My only real hope on a quick trigger for Sullivan was Dubas for some reason (and no, I'm not taking the "reports" out of NY into consideration on that ). The rest I think are basically in two camps. Those with previous connections to Sullivan and those without. Not really hopeful any of them would do it, but those without previous connections might get there a little quicker.

 

[gdsmack267]

Yohe and Rossi are what they are. Opinion writers. I'm not sure they have ever actually called a single thing in regards to signings or trades.

 

[ThosePuckingPenguins]

Friedman was on Marek’s show and some updates…

- He thinks the conclusion of the Pens naming a GM is getting closer.
- Says that MacKinnon, Tulsky and Darche are at least three of the finalists. Still not sure about Chayka.
- Getting mixed messages from Botterill. He was told he wouldn’t want the GM job and that if he was going to come, he’d be looking at the POHO position.

Give me Botterill POHO and Tulsky GM and let’s ride.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Friedman was on Marek’s show and some updates…

- He thinks the conclusion of the Pens naming a GM is getting closer.
- Says that MacKinnon, Tulsky and Darche are at least three of the finalists. Still not sure about Chayka.
- Getting mixed messages from Botterill. He was told he wouldn’t want the GM job and that if he was going to come, he’d be looking at the POHO position.

Give me Botterill POHO and Tulsky GM and let’s ride.

Any suspicions that Botterill will be biased (for or against) Sully?

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Friedman was on Marek’s show and some updates…

- He thinks the conclusion of the Pens naming a GM is getting closer.
- Says that MacKinnon, Tulsky and Darche are at least three of the finalists. Still not sure about Chayka.
- Getting mixed messages from Botterill. He was told he wouldn’t want the GM job and that if he was going to come, he’d be looking at the POHO position.

Give me Botterill POHO and Tulsky GM and let’s ride.

The stupidest GMJR decisions all seem to have happened after Botts was gone, Reaves like a month after, then JJ, Brassard, Zucker, etc. So if you look at the good JR trades and the bad, Botts was there for pretty much all of them. I'm not saying he was responsible, or it's that simple, but that certainly argues in his favor.

I would be fine with Botts coming back in some capacity.