It has been ten years since the Steckel on Crosby hit.

[HugoSimon]

I have no idea how Cooke has such a lack of integrity and honor to look himself in the mirror after that career. Piece of intent to injure filth.

Psychopaths have a major competitive advantage in sports.

More desire to win, less concern for getting themselves hurt etc.

I'm not saying this in a vindictive sense.

Just seems more or less obvious at this point.

 

[Byron Bitz]

It’s ridiculous that people blame Steckel for Crosby’s concussion. That collision was just as much Crosby’s fault. Accidents happen, it’s unfortunate how profound the affects ended up being.

 

[HugoSimon]

I mean it wasn't me who said it, but I agree.

A NHL player isn't that oblivious. A Beer league guy may not be use to using his peripheral vision all the time and accidentally run in someone that manner but to get to the NHL your movements are so finely tuned you can't throw a shoulder into a guy and not mean to do it. Yeah Steckel may not have been going for a headshot but to say it was completely accidental is farfetched.

That's something that an experienced player would know, that a fan might not.

This isn't just a question of experience, it's a question of how fast are your reflexes on a natural/genetic level.

My guess would be that unlike basketball/football/baseball, where size power speed all are big components of what makes someone competitive, hockey is largely dependent on spatial awareness and reflexes.

My guess is the oblivious types would never have a shot at competitive hockey for that very reason.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

I mean it wasn't me who said it, but I agree.

A NHL player isn't that oblivious. A Beer league guy may not be use to using his peripheral vision all the time and accidentally run in someone that manner but to get to the NHL your movements are so finely tuned you can't throw a shoulder into a guy and not mean to do it. Yeah Steckel may not have been going for a headshot but to say it was completely accidental is farfetched.

That's something that an experienced player would know, that a fan might not.

The poster said that he played hockey "at all levels", which is horseshit. I chuckled.

As for the hit, it's no way in hell what a typical NHL fan thinks of when they think of the Crosby/Ovechkin rivalry. Probably not even on the first page of what they think of.

 

[HTFN]

Problem is you were never a pro athlete.

I'd obviously do the same. The question is, will a pro have the reflexes or will he not?

Just spit balling, but it looks to me like the guy wasn't going for him, but wasn't stopping for him either.

It wasn't intentional but it absolutely was negligent in my ignorant opinion.

But reflexes aren’t the question. I was capable of reacting, I chose to ignore it as a sensation. It wasn’t important enough to stop me from doing what I was doing. I could have shied from contact, or looked at him after like “gosh, sorry”, didn’t want to.

It may not always turn out awesome but you can be as negligent as you want to the other team. It’s not your job to hold the door open for a guy who wants to get somewhere, especially if it’s your job to keep him at bay.

 

[HugoSimon]

But reflexes aren’t the question. I was capable of reacting, I chose to ignore it as a sensation.

It wasn’t important enough to stop me from doing what I was doing. I could have shied from contact, or looked at him after like “gosh, sorry”, didn’t want to.

It may not always turn out awesome but you can be as negligent as you want to the other team. It’s not your job to hold the door open for a guy who wants to get somewhere, especially if it’s your job to keep him at bay.

I feel like you're modestly moving the goal posts.

I could concede that negligence is a far more appropriate term compared with an "intentional hit job".

But the point is he could of avoided it and he didn't, which in turn may have damaged/or helped the sport.

 

[Esq]

Wasn’t a dirty hit then. Isn’t a dirty hit now.

 

[HTFN]

I feel like you're modestly moving the goal posts.

I could concede that negligence is a far more appropriate term compared with an "intentional hit job".

But the point is he could of avoided it and he didn't, which in turn may have damaged/or helped the sport.

Not his responsibility, and not really something any hockey player should reasonably be considering while in the middle of his shift. Also not the point. Maybe of the thread originally, but not my quote, which asserts there’s literally no way a professional athlete could not react to something.

You can tell me he could avoid it all you want (even though you can’t prove it, and don’t know what Steckel actually sees, only where his head is pointing), what you’re not telling me is why it’s his responsibility to get out of the way. He’s entitled to his ice, he’s entitled to get back in the play, he breaks zero rules, doesn’t even really go out of his way to impede anybody.

If you want to play the should have game, what should Crosby have done differently? Isn’t it fair to say based on his hand eye reflexes and his status as one of the game’s best that he also could have noticed and reacted to the events unfolding? Probably even better, since his skating and reflexes are almost assuredly better than David Steckel’s.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Oh please. He knew exactly what he was doing

 

[HugoSimon]

Not his responsibility, and not really something any hockey player should reasonably be considering while in the middle of his shift. Also not the point. Maybe of the thread originally, but not my quote, which asserts there’s literally no way a professional athlete could not react to something.

You can tell me he could avoid it all you want (even though you can’t prove it, and don’t know what Steckel actually sees, only where his head is pointing), what you’re not telling me is why it’s his responsibility to get out of the way. He’s entitled to his ice, he’s entitled to get back in the play, he breaks zero rules, doesn’t even really go out of his way to impede anybody.

Saying it isn't his responsibility from my viewpoint is like saying "so what if it's a dirty hit".

I feel like your conflating legal responsibility with moral responsibility.

If you want to play the should have game, what should Crosby have done differently? Isn’t it fair to say based on his hand eye reflexes and his status as one of the game’s best that he also could have noticed and reacted to the events unfolding? Probably even better, since his skating and reflexes are almost assuredly better than David Steckel’s.

You're talking to the wrong person on this one. I'd never let someone I'd care about play competitive hockey. A good functioning brain is far too valuable.

I think it's inevitable that in a decade or so people will be complaining that careers are getting ruined. Not because of bad hits, but because players are too liable for the potential damage they do to others.

I could see diving becoming a massive part of the sport. Instead of players being recruited because of their intimidation factor, their ability to flop around will be getting them drafted.

Don't get me wrong when it's people I don't care about smash away. It's your brain not mine, just telling you if you know the science spending $20,000 a year so your kid can't use his overpriced private school education is a joke. Rich people are smart, hockey players are rich kids, therefore it seems unlikely doctors/lawyers are cool with their kids getting their iq scores crushed.

EDIT: When I say dives, I mean we'll be collecting data on helmet impacts. So every single collision has it's level of impact documented. So if a player flops into you and you fail to step out of it you draw the penalty.

 

[Hatfield]

Oh please. He knew exactly what he was doing

Steckel was never that kind of player. 129 PIMs in 425 games. Not a malicious bone in his body.

 

[HTFN]

Saying it isn't his responsibility from my viewpoint is like saying "so what if it's a dirty hit".

I feel like your conflating legal responsibility with moral responsibility.



You're talking to the wrong person on this one. I'd never let someone I'd care about play competitive hockey. A good functioning brain is far too valuable.

I think it's inevitable that in a decade or so people will be complaining that careers are getting ruined. Not because of bad hits, but because players are too liable for the potential damage they do to others.

I could see diving becoming a massive part of the sport.

Don't get me wrong when it's people I don't care about smash away. It's your brain not mine, just telling you if you know the science spending $20,000 a year so your kid can't use his overpriced private school education is a joke. Rich people are smart, hockey players are rich kids, therefore it seems unlikely doctors/lawyers are cool with their kids getting their iq scores crushed.

Yeesh, talk about moving goal posts.

I can't tell if you're just not tracking parts of the post or not even reading it. It's not Steckel's, nor anybody else's, responsibility to think about what hitting Sidney Crosby will do for the sport of hockey. It just isn't. It's his responsibility to follow the rules, and I guess represent the game from a non-racist/bigoted perspective because this is an entertainment industry, but while he's playing that's pretty much it. You think that people have a responsibility to think "oh, shoot, I should get out of this guy's way because he's a better player than me and if we tangled up and he got hurt that'd be terrible for the sport". If the action in question would be a blatant violation of the rules? Probably, but not any and all incidental contact.

Moral responsibility, especially here, is entirely subjective. You can have that debate all day and get nowhere, especially when some people feel Steckel should have made way for Crosby because he's Sidney Crosby, not because there's any real reason he should have. Speaking of which, you didn't really tell me what he could do differently, just a bunch of dreck about private school educations and the "hockey of the future". If the goal is to save Sidney Crosby's brain, I'd start with what the team doctors did wrong and not what Steckel could do differently.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Whats this supposed to prove? That combining videos of three different players you still cant make a list even remotely close to as bad as Cooke alone?

 

[ColbyChaos]

"hit"

 

[ColbyChaos]

You missed the bit 3 minutes prior with Orpik targeting Erickson in the head and Neal blatantly kneeing Marchand in the head to start the entire incident.

 

[Sombastate]

Obviously I'm a flyers fan, and I'm aware of the bias this is going to be read with. But I've never understood how this was such an absolutely vicious hit to the same people who constantly give Malkin a pass for regularly more sinister behavior.

I think Malkin is an amazing player. But maybe, just maybe, shit happens in this sport and it wasn't that bad, but had a terrible outcome.

 

[Barrsy]

Steckel did what he did on purpose. I am sure he didnt expect or hope for the result, but no question it wasnt an accident.

 

[bobholly39]

Big "what if" questions for Crosby's legacy because of it.

Id say however the back to back cups + smythes - combined with his international success (golden goal was before, but 2014 gold as captain and 2016 world cup mvp + gold) are what define his career, along with a top 3 consistently elite prime of all time imo. And its a grand enough legacy to be worthy of a top 10 player of all time, and possibly even #5.

Without the injury, maybe his peak would have defined him (as it defines Gretz, Lemieux, Orr - even Jagr, Hasek, Lafleur). Or maybe he doesn't truly put together a peak we thought he would have. Impossible to say.

 

[Devil Dancer]

People are still litigating this? Come on, Crosby literally skates into him.

The delusion is extra funny because it's Dave "Charmin" Steckel. I wish he used his body like that! The Caps might have won some more playoff games during his career in DC.

As for the question, no. The defining moments of the rivalry played out across several playoff series. Crosby won them all until Ovie finally scaled the mountain in '18. That's what people will remember.

 

[Shrimper]

Crosby would probably have 150-200 more pointsalready. Crazy to think

 

[YYCLetangStan]

If we hadn’t won in 2016 and 2017, I’d still be fuming about this particular incident.

I’m still pissed that it set our post-2009 cup window, with Crosby/Malkin/Staal/Letang /Fleury now on their second contracts, back by 3-4 years.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Luckily Crosby is so good that he's still the best player of his era and one of the best players of all time even though he missed his entire prime to a misdiagnosed injury. His name is synonymous with winning. Obviously fans of other teams are seething with barely-concealed jealousy, which is why this thread has turned into what it has.

 

[Maestro84]

With all due respect to Ovi, if people actually think he's a better overall hockey player than Crosby then they're blind asf lol

I'm not a fan of either of their teams but any GM starting a franchise from scratch would easily pick Sid before Ovi.

Still though, what a shame this had to happen, we got robbed of seeing Crosby's peak after this.

 

[MetalheadPenguinsFan]

I hated seeing this hit back then...I hate it now. That entire game was a rain soaked farce. The only neat thing was that due to the shitty weather...it was played at night.

As for what could have been...ehh...

I’m stoked with everything Sid has still managed to achieve. Sure he was on pace to have an insane career year that year but...I think I’ll take our back to back Cups over a Sid sweep of the 2011 NHL Awards.

Yes. I feel old. I remember exactly where I was the night of this game when I saw this hit. I was drunk, posting here, and yelling at my (at the time) girlfriend’s TV as i watched the game.

 

[Barrsy]

N/M