Prospect Info: Isles Prospect Talk PART X

[A Pointed Stick]

University of North Dakota commit, plays on a line with top 2018 draft prospect Andrei Svechnikov. Probably will need all four years at UND.

The coach of his USHL team the Muskegon Lumberjacks is John LaFontaine, older brother of Pat LaFontaine.

He's not the biggest guy, but seems to do the things small players must need to do in order to be successful at the pro level (good skating, goes to the dirty areas).

That is a resume trigger phrase for the Islanders.

"I am small." You're hired!
"I am Chinese." You're drafted!
"I played with JT, once." You're traded for!
"I used to clean my colon with clam chowder while studying lumber jacking at UMaine." You're on my coaching staff yesterday!!!!!1!

 

[WinhallVT124]

Jake Bischoff just scored the game winning goal tonight against Ohio St. Minnesota also scored 6 power play goals tonight which is a school record. Crazy stuff.

I definitely could see Bischoff getting signed towards the end of the season. He's done a pretty solid job. Very strong on the puck, decent shot from the point, pretty good skater.

I am a big fan of Bischoff, I don't see why we can't sign him. Finn, Leduc, and Graham will be coming off the books. So in a ideal situation you'd see Bischoff and Somerby joining Wotherspoon and MVS in Bridgeport next season.

 

[YearlyLottery]

That is a resume trigger phrase for the Islanders.

"I am small." You're hired!
"I am Chinese." You're drafted!
"I played with JT, once." You're traded for!
"I used to clean my colon with clam chowder while studying lumber jacking at UMaine." You're on my coaching staff yesterday!!!!!1!

If anything the Islanders have tended to stay away from smaller players in the draft. Perfect example is Reinhart and the MDC draft.

 

[IslandersFan17]

If anything the Islanders have tended to stay away from smaller players in the draft. Perfect example is Reinhart and the MDC draft.

Barzal, Beauvillier, Ho Sang, Toews, Vande Sopel, etc.... we haven't exactly had a particular trend per say.

 

[Frankie41987]

Barzal, Beauvillier, Ho Sang, Toews, Vande Sopel, etc.... we haven't exactly had a particular trend per say.

Yea i agree. I don't really think there is any trends when it comes player size/style. I would argue, however, that we do have regional preferences. Which is more likely a result of the scouts that are employed. We love out Minnesotan players, WHL defensemen, etc. It also seems there is a reluctance to risk a high pick (1st/2nd round) on european/russian players. And I would assume that has more to do with the team skimping on Euro scouts for years. That has to change.

 

[superdeluxe]

Player of the week:

http://whl.ca/article/thunderbirds-barzal-named-whl-player-of-the-week-2

Calgary, AB – The Western Hockey League announced today that Seattle Thunderbirds forward Mathew Barzal has been named the WHL Player of the Week for the week ending February 12, 2017.

Barzal registered 15 points (1G-14A) in four games to help the Thunderbirds go 4-0-0-0 this past week, moving into the U.S. Division lead.

On Tuesday, February 7, Barzal collected two assists in a 3-1 win at Victoria and was named second star. On Wednesday, February 8, in the second of back-to-back contests with the Royals, Barzal secured four assists in a 5-4 win and was named second star once again. Returning home, Barzal put up three more assists on Friday, February 10, in a 6-2 win against Tri-City and was named second star for the third consecutive game. Finally, on Saturday, February 11, the Thunderbirds’ captain exploded for six points (1G-5A) in an 8-5 win versus Portland, earning first star recognition.

 

[Jester9881]

Only one goal? Over rated

 

[Strait2thecup]

Player of the week:

http://whl.ca/article/thunderbirds-barzal-named-whl-player-of-the-week-2

Pulock also named AHL player of the week

 

[ekill08x]

Only one goal? Over rated

if this was bailey wed be complaining...facts

 

[A Pointed Stick]

If anything the Islanders have tended to stay away from smaller players in the draft. Perfect example is Reinhart and the MDC draft.

I completely disagree. Aness, Strome, CdH due to lack of muscle, everything out of Waterloo, Spurgeon, etc... Teams bias towards big with a few exceptions. The exceptions have grown in % over the past 10 to 15 years, but still I'd bet more GM's embrace the old rule of size over the rest. Our draft history with its spread is a move in the opposite direction. When you are taking several shrimp types each draft... that means you are trending in the opposite direction, and our roster suffers for it. It isn't a matter of a bell curve because size was never a bell curve distribution for the NHL at the draft. Simply being scattered across the board on ht and mass puts us into the "more favorable towards small player" team pool.

 

[seafoam]

Barzal will have plenty of suitors as far as left wings go to feed the puck to.

Lee, Ladd, Dal Colle, and Bellows are all goal scoring left wingers. Now only if we had any right wingers...

 

[YearlyLottery]

I completely disagree. Aness, Strome, CdH due to lack of muscle, everything out of Waterloo, Spurgeon, etc... Teams bias towards big with a few exceptions. The exceptions have grown in % over the past 10 to 15 years, but still I'd bet more GM's embrace the old rule of size over the rest. Our draft history with its spread is a move in the opposite direction. When you are taking several shrimp types each draft... that means you are trending in the opposite direction, and our roster suffers for it. It isn't a matter of a bell curve because size was never a bell curve distribution for the NHL at the draft. Simply being scattered across the board on ht and mass puts us into the "more favorable towards small player" team pool.

Strome is 6'1 200 pounds if I am not mistaken? If you wanted more size in the 2009 draft we draft Kulikov ahead of CdH.

This team did not draft the best players especially in the Reinhart and Dal Colle years. Why did this team not draft Ehlers (that's who I wanted, anyone who doesn't believe me feel free to look back)? Why did they not draft Nylander? OH right! Because the old argument of size>skill.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Barzal will have plenty of suitors as far as left wings go to feed the puck to.

Lee, Ladd, Dal Colle, and Bellows are all goal scoring left wingers. Now only if we had any right wingers...

I suppose you are using the term "scoring" pretty loosely here eh?

 

[LeapOnOver]

Strome is 6'1 200 pounds if I am not mistaken? If you wanted more size in the 2009 draft we draft Kulikov ahead of CdH.

This team did not draft the best players especially in the Reinhart and Dal Colle years. Why did this team not draft Ehlers (that's who I wanted, anyone who doesn't believe me feel free to look back)? Why did they not draft Nylander? OH right! Because the old argument of size>skill.

Exactly! Anybody who gets wrapped up in either/or will be drafting badly. Take the best player when all is said and done, take his size into account but don't make it a be all end all.

 

[IslandersFan17]

Strome is 6'1 200 pounds if I am not mistaken? If you wanted more size in the 2009 draft we draft Kulikov ahead of CdH.

This team did not draft the best players especially in the Reinhart and Dal Colle years. Why did this team not draft Ehlers (that's who I wanted, anyone who doesn't believe me feel free to look back)? Why did they not draft Nylander? OH right! Because the old argument of size>skill.

You make it sound like we reached on those guys. They were ranked right where we took them.

I think snow has taken bigger wingers while taking smaller play making centers. However, snow has also taken a range of defenders from bigger guys to smallish puck movers.

 

[Jester9881]

Strome is 6'1 200 pounds if I am not mistaken? If you wanted more size in the 2009 draft we draft Kulikov ahead of CdH.

This team did not draft the best players especially in the Reinhart and Dal Colle years. Why did this team not draft Ehlers (that's who I wanted, anyone who doesn't believe me feel free to look back)? Why did they not draft Nylander? OH right! Because the old argument of size>skill.

The second part of your post is funny to me, considering you acknowledge CDH was the right pick over Kulikov, yet until a few years ago... many were complaining we didn't do just that. The lesson here is these things take a lot of time to really sort out. The book on the MDC draft hasn't been written yet, we're barely into the first chapter. Remember when Leddy was a bust at one point? Give it time. Even the Bailey pick is looking better and better in hindsight.

 

[Jester9881]

You make it sound like we reached on those guys. They were ranked right where we took them.

I think snow has taken bigger wingers while taking smaller play making centers. However, snow has also taken a range of defenders from bigger guys to smallish puck movers.

You can definitely draw similarities in the MDC, Bellows and Nino picks. All large wingers with hard shots that project to be more goal scorers than setup men. Anders Lee as well, though he was picked in a later round. Snow definitely seems to have "a type" he looks for.

Same can be said on the other side of the spectrum with Barzal, Ho-Sang and Strome. All smallish, RH pass first.

 

[IslandersFan17]

You can definitely draw similarities in the MDC, Bellows and Nino picks. All large wingers with hard shots that project to be more goal scorers than setup men. Anders Lee as well, though he was picked in a later round. Snow definitely seems to have "a type" he looks for.

Same can be said on the other side of the spectrum with Barzal, Ho-Sang and Strome. All smallish, RH pass first.

Throw in beauvillier too, I feel like we forget that poor kid all too much lol.

 

[YearlyLottery]

The second part of your post is funny to me, considering you acknowledge CDH was the right pick over Kulikov, yet until a few years ago... many were complaining we didn't do just that. The lesson here is these things take a lot of time to really sort out. The book on the MDC draft hasn't been written yet, we're barely into the first chapter. Remember when Leddy was a bust at one point? Give it time. Even the Bailey pick is looking better and better in hindsight.

You make a good point, let's hope all he needed was a little extra time.

 

[rikker]

Beauvillier is smaller than Bailey or Nelson, but plays a heavier game. size is a vague term. it should be broken into two categories, height and weight. Max Domi is only 5'10", is he too small? he is almost 200 lbs, and is tough as nails. the only detriment to his shorter height, is reach.

i think the size of our current team is about average. prospect base seems a bit smaller, but i think this is an NHL wide trend. more value put on skating/speed than 'size', than in the past.

i think the team scrimping on scouts in the past, has somewhat handcuffed Snow. he also has a penchant for New England boys, and stays away from Euros, so he does have his tendencies.

i am ok with his drafting. i didn't like it all that much, in his first 5 years or so, but i think he has gotten better.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

We've had some fairly clear draft tendencies in Snow's time:
- 1st pick is usually North American or at least a Euro who's been playing in NA.
- Usually move a couple of 2nds to get back into the end of the first round.
- In connection to that, no fear of moving 2nds for ways back into the first round in general.
- Affection for USHL Waterloo picks could not be overlooked for several summers.
- With a few exceptions, a goalie is usually in the mix and it should be no surprise to see two taken.
- A talented Russian with ??? is taken between rounds 3-5.
- Rounds 3-7 often include a player or two heading to college within a season or two.
- In connection to that, one of those NCAA-bound guys usually seems to be a smaller 'skill' forward
- A small, offensively oriented Dman, usually featuring a righty shot and often from the WHL, is taken between rounds 4-7, usually 5-7.

Am I missing any others?

Calvin de Haan:
The guy is a decent #4/5 Dman. I truly think Snow had visions of Duncan Keith when he went after him. Drafting him ahead of a few other Dmen in that draft (Leddy being one of them) is not so much the problem, although I know many felt/hoped Snow was targeting Kulikov.

But was de Haan worth the eventual 4 picks we gave up to grab him?

We'll never know, but hindsight certainly hasn't shown Snow to have been smarter or savvier than everyone else for making all those moves to jump up and get him. He had injury troubles and even looked like a guy who would be written off at one point, so making it has been a true success and a big help for us.

Ultimately, he is what he is.

Now, would anyone now say he's worth a late 1st, early 2nd, and 3rd? Cause Snow gave up even more than that to grab him. That said, only a handful of picks made between spots 27-61 have ended up having as much or more success than de Haan.

 

[Seph]

Barzal will have plenty of suitors as far as left wings go to feed the puck to.

Lee, Ladd, Dal Colle, and Bellows are all goal scoring left wingers. Now only if we had any right wingers...

Which is good, Barzal definitely favors his LW for scoring (which is pretty common for righty playmaking centers).

At a quick glance, here's Barzal's wingers' stats this year with and without him in the lineup. Gropp is his LW and Kolesar plays the LW, and when Barzal was out Scott Eansor (small, skilled lefty center, currently on a ppg pace) took his spot. Notice how Gropp's goals and Kolesar's assists both skyrocket when he is playing.

Gropp
w/ Barzal 31gp 21g 26a 47pts
w/o Barzal 20gp 3g 11a 14pts

Kolesar
w/ Barzal 30gp 14g 21a 35pts
w/o Barzal 10gp 4g 1a 5pts

We've had some fairly clear draft tendencies in Snow's time:
- 1st pick is usually North American or at least a Euro who's been playing in NA.
- Usually move a couple of 2nds to get back into the end of the first round.
- In connection to that, no fear of moving 2nds for ways back into the first round in general.
- Affection for USHL Waterloo picks could not be overlooked for several summers.
- With a few exceptions, a goalie is usually in the mix and it should be no surprise to see two taken.
- A talented Russian with ??? is taken between rounds 3-5.
- Rounds 3-7 often include a player or two heading to college within a season or two.
- In connection to that, one of those NCAA-bound guys usually seems to be a smaller 'skill' forward
- A small, offensively oriented Dman, usually featuring a righty shot and often from the WHL, is taken between rounds 4-7, usually 5-7.

Am I missing any others?

Calvin de Haan:
The guy is a decent #4/5 Dman. I truly think Snow had visions of Duncan Keith when he went after him. Drafting him ahead of a few other Dmen in that draft (Leddy being one of them) is not so much the problem, although I know many felt/hoped Snow was targeting Kulikov.

But was de Haan worth the eventual 4 picks we gave up to grab him?

We'll never know, but hindsight certainly hasn't shown Snow to have been smarter or savvier than everyone else for making all those moves to jump up and get him. He had injury troubles and even looked like a guy who would be written off at one point, so making it has been a true success and a big help for us.

Ultimately, he is what he is.

Now, would anyone now say he's worth a late 1st, early 2nd, and 3rd? Cause Snow gave up even more than that to grab him. That said, only a handful of picks made between spots 27-61 have ended up having as much or more success than de Haan.

From 2010 onwards, there's been a tendency towards lefty goal scoring forwards with size and/or physical play, and righty playmaking forwards.

At the end of the day, we left the 2009 draft with 2/3 of our current first line, a top 4 dman and a good 3rd line C. I'm fine with that, even if we went into that draft with 10 picks. It certainly beats the 2006 or 2008 drafts where we went for having as many draft picks as possible.

 

[SI90]

Which is good, Barzal definitely favors his LW for scoring (which is pretty common for righty playmaking centers).

At a quick glance, here's Barzal's wingers' stats this year with and without him in the lineup. Gropp is his LW and Kolesar plays the LW, and when Barzal was out Scott Eansor (small, skilled lefty center, currently on a ppg pace) took his spot. Notice how Gropp's goals and Kolesar's assists both skyrocket when he is playing.

Gropp
w/ Barzal 31gp 21g 26a 47pts
w/o Barzal 20gp 3g 11a 14pts

Kolesar
w/ Barzal 30gp 14g 21a 35pts
w/o Barzal 10gp 4g 1a 5pts



From 2010 onwards, there's been a tendency towards lefty goal scoring forwards with size and/or physical play, and righty playmaking forwards.

At the end of the day, we left the 2009 draft with 2/3 of our current first line, a top 4 dman and a good 3rd line C. I'm fine with that, even if we went into that draft with 10 picks. It certainly beats the 2006 or 2008 drafts where we went for having as many draft picks as possible.

The 2nd and 3rd rounds of the 08 draft still make me think what if.

Could have had Josi, Stepan, and Hamonic in the 2nd and possibly Henrique and Holtby in the 3rd

In round 4 we also had a shot at both Brodie and Nyquist as well.

We did get Martin in the 5th? We got a lot out of him but that could have been an incredible draft. Josi and Hamonic in the 2nd round alone would have been insane.

 

[YearlyLottery]

The 2nd and 3rd rounds of the 08 draft still make me think what if.

Could have had Josi, Stepan, and Hamonic in the 2nd and possibly Henrique and Holtby in the 3rd

In round 4 we also had a shot at both Brodie and Nyquist as well.

We did get Martin in the 5th? We got a lot out of him but that could have been an incredible draft. Josi and Hamonic in the 2nd round alone would have been insane.

We got Ness instead, right? Not too shabby if you ask me!

 

[SI90]

We got Ness instead, right? Not too shabby if you ask me!

And Trivino!!!