Prospect Info: Isles Prospect Talk 2019-20 | Part II

[periferal]

They're really strict with their training and most NHLers who go over there hate it, I'd be interested in how Ho-Sang responds to that.

Good. There is no other athlete I can think of that needs to be tied down and forced to look at himself in a mirror. For those of you that know tennis even Nick Kyrgios acknowledges he's not a true contender because he doesn't work hard enough and just relies on raw talent.

Literally on the other hand Josh Ho-Sang thinks he should "be the best player from his draft class" just because. He does not get the level of work ethic and professionalism required to be the best at anything, much less just com close to reaching your potential.

If JHS had Cizikas' or Beauvillier's personality/attitude/work ethic he'd be a poor man's Patrick Kane. Instead he's just a cautionary tale.

 

[scott99]

you guys see Trouba more than i, so i'm probably wrong about his skating. i just see him as an above average d with a bit of scuziness. maybe more than a bit? lol.

wondering about Wilde... any chance he can be converted to a RW?

It’s funny you mention Trouba. First time I saw Wilde, was at the World U18 championships before the Isles drafted him. He didn’t score at all in the tournament, but when I watched him, I remember being extremely impressed. He was so good defensively, quick exits out of the zone, whether skating or passing. And his panic threshold was non existent, very calm and cool in his own zone. And my thoughts were, he reminds me of Trouba.

A couple months later, I was so surprised to read the scouting reports about them having questions about his hockey sense. I even remember in the draft thread before the draft, I remember saying I wouldn’t mind Wilde at #12 if all the other top defensemen were gone (NEVER thought Dobson would be there at #12). I absolutely loved getting him in the 2nd round.

 

[NC 1972]

It’s funny you mention Trouba. First time I saw Wilde, was at the World U18 championships before the Isles drafted him. He didn’t score at all in the tournament, but when I watched him, I remember being extremely impressed. He was so good defensively, quick exits out of the zone, whether skating or passing. And his panic threshold was non existent, very calm and cool in his own zone. And my thoughts were, he reminds me of Trouba.

A couple months later, I was so surprised to read the scouting reports about them having questions about his hockey sense. I even remember in the draft thread before the draft, I remember saying I wouldn’t mind Wilde at #12 if all the other top defensemen were gone (NEVER thought Dobson would be there at #12). I absolutely loved getting him in the 2nd round.

I also remember when we drafted Pelech, I think in the 3rd round you were very happy with the pick in that draft year. Let’s hope that Wilde has similar success.

 

[doublechili]

I also remember when we drafted Pelech, I think in the 3rd round you were very happy with the pick in that draft year. Let’s hope that Wilde has similar success.

Yeah, it was a surprise that Pelech dropped to the 3rd round. I remember a commentator on the NHL Network in some post-draft discussion went off on what a great pick Pelech was and he guaranteed he'd be a good NHLer.

 

[NC 1972]

We

Yeah, it was a surprise that Pelech dropped to the 3rd round. I remember a commentator on the NHL Network in some post-draft discussion went off on what a great pick Pelech was and he guaranteed he'd be a good NHLer.

We’ve been lucky with our D-men Mayfield in the second round and Devon Towes can’t recall what round we grabbed him but it certainly wasn’t the 1st round.

 

[PWJunior]

It’s funny you mention Trouba. First time I saw Wilde, was at the World U18 championships before the Isles drafted him. He didn’t score at all in the tournament, but when I watched him, I remember being extremely impressed. He was so good defensively, quick exits out of the zone, whether skating or passing. And his panic threshold was non existent, very calm and cool in his own zone. And my thoughts were, he reminds me of Trouba.

A couple months later, I was so surprised to read the scouting reports about them having questions about his hockey sense. I even remember in the draft thread before the draft, I remember saying I wouldn’t mind Wilde at #12 if all the other top defensemen were gone (NEVER thought Dobson would be there at #12). I absolutely loved getting him in the 2nd round.

Drafting RHD's is just a smart practice, you have to really concentrate premium picks (1st and 2nd) at the position to have it pay off. It has long been a philosophy of mine that I would only draft RHD's with a top 15 pick, a LHD would have to be an absolute stud to warrant my interest. The Isles walking away with Dobson and Wilde blew my mind, I had the same rationale and reaction as you. The 2018 d-men class is the best one in a long time, it reminded me of the 2008 class with the 4 high end RHD's at the top. It felt like we walked away with the next Pietrangelo AND the next Bogosian. Unreal haul.

Pulock, Dobson, and Wilde could be a monster RD group. That reminds me of the Pietrangelo, Parayko, and Shattenkirk group for St. Louis. Pelech is like our Bouwmeester too.

 

[MJF]

Drafting RHD's is just a smart practice, you have to really concentrate premium picks (1st and 2nd) at the position to have it pay off. It has long been a philosophy of mine that I would only draft RHD's with a top 15 pick, a LHD would have to be an absolute stud to warrant my interest. The Isles walking away with Dobson and Wilde blew my mind, I had the same rationale and reaction as you. The 2018 d-men class is the best one in a long time, it reminded me of the 2008 class with the 4 high end RHD's at the top. It felt like we walked away with the next Pietrangelo AND the next Bogosian. Unreal haul.

Pulock, Dobson, and Wilde could be a monster RD group. That reminds me of the Pietrangelo, Parayko, and Shattenkirk group for St. Louis. Pelech is like our Bouwmeester too.

I still rank Grant Hutton as my first defensive defenseman up from Bridgeport. Very high on him. I think the organization is too. Deep defensive prospect pool we have.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

We

We’ve been lucky with our D-men Mayfield in the second round and Devon Towes can’t recall what round we grabbed him but it certainly wasn’t the 1st round.

4th round

 

[scott99]

I also remember when we drafted Pelech, I think in the 3rd round you were very happy with the pick in that draft year. Let’s hope that Wilde has similar success.

Crazy thing was, that was the all Dman draft by Snow. Snow allegedly offered all of the Islander's picks to move up prior to the draft, to draft Ryan Murray. Thanks god that didn't happen, Pelech, a 3rd round pick, wound up being better than Ryan Murray, the 2nd overall pick. I remember REALLY wanting Alex Galchenyuk in that draft, who turned out to be an average player.

 

[danteipp]

Crazy thing was, that was the all Dman draft by Snow. Snow allegedly offered all of the Islander's picks to move up prior to the draft, to draft Ryan Murray. Thanks god that didn't happen, Pelech, a 3rd round pick, wound up being better than Ryan Murray, the 2nd overall pick. I remember REALLY wanting Alex Galchenyuk in that draft, who turned out to be an average player.

When you think about the 2012 NHL Draft, it can be viewed as an interesting turning point for the Isles and the lynchpin for their ultimate turnaround and success. Even beyond just the eventual flip of Reinhart into Barzal and a share of Beauvillier.

First, I always thought Snow made mistakes in the 2010 and 2011 NHL Drafts, because I probably would have taken Cam Fowler and Doug Hamilton given the fit as projected BPA and the Isles dire need to restock the blue line.

I will also admit that I was really angry that the Devils won the lottery to move up and select Adam Larsson at #4, who I thought would be better than he is now. I also thought Ryan Murray would turn out better, of course some of that can be blamed on injury, and was disappointed we missed out on both.

Hearing that Snow was willing to move his entire draft class to select Murray, would have been an overpay and a knee-jerk reaction though. Thank the hockey gods that Columbus didn't bite.

I did like that Snow finally got serious and addressed the need on defense in 2012, although I was hoping for Trouba (once Murray and Galchenyuk were off the board) and loved Pokka and Pelech.

I really thought Pokka would be a far better player than he turned out to be, but at least he got the Isles Leddy in trade.

One other pick from that draft class, Jesse Graham, I thought was very interesting. I saw quite a few of his games in Bridgeport and really believed he would have a chance to make the Isles and be a Jared Spurgeon-type player.

But, if I recall correctly, there were reports that he didn't work hard enough and lacked dedication, which was the reason why he kept getting bounced between the AHL and ECHL. Maybe under different management (like Lou, Trotz and co.) he would have developed better, improved his hockey IQ and added the necessary physical strength to make it to the NHL.

I know Graham played for Liiga this season, any reports on him from people who saw him play? Did he get strong enough to make an impact in that league?

 

[Sparksrus3]

They're really strict with their training and most NHLers who go over there hate it, I'd be interested in how Ho-Sang responds to that.

we all unfortunately saw Rocky IV.
“ I must break you”

 

[Original Rob]

When you think about the 2012 NHL Draft, it can be viewed as an interesting turning point for the Isles and the lynchpin for their ultimate turnaround and success. Even beyond just the eventual flip of Reinhart into Barzal and a share of Beauvillier.

First, I always thought Snow made mistakes in the 2010 and 2011 NHL Drafts, because I probably would have taken Cam Fowler and Doug Hamilton given the fit as projected BPA and the Isles dire need to restock the blue line.

I will also admit that I was really angry that the Devils won the lottery to move up and select Adam Larsson at #4, who I thought would be better than he is now. I also thought Ryan Murray would turn out better, of course some of that can be blamed on injury, and was disappointed we missed out on both.

Hearing that Snow was willing to move his entire draft class to select Murray, would have been an overpay and a knee-jerk reaction though. Thank the hockey gods that Columbus didn't bite.

I did like that Snow finally got serious and addressed the need on defense in 2012, although I was hoping for Trouba (once Murray and Galchenyuk were off the board) and loved Pokka and Pelech.

I really thought Pokka would be a far better player than he turned out to be, but at least he got the Isles Leddy in trade.

One other pick from that draft class, Jesse Graham, I thought was very interesting. I saw quite a few of his games in Bridgeport and really believed he would have a chance to make the Isles and be a Jared Spurgeon-type player.

But, if I recall correctly, there were reports that he didn't work hard enough and lacked dedication, which was the reason why he kept getting bounced between the AHL and ECHL. Maybe under different management (like Lou, Trotz and co.) he would have developed better, improved his hockey IQ and added the necessary physical strength to make it to the NHL.

I know Graham played for Liiga this season, any reports on him from people who saw him play? Did he get strong enough to make an impact in that league?

I was just thinking about this the other day (maybe on Snow's deathbed he'll reveal whether this rumor was true). What is the general consensus on Ryan Murray these days? Is he average / good / very good? I don't watch too much CBJ and when I do, I focus on Seth Jones and Werenski.

 

[Medvescak]

I was just thinking about this the other day (maybe on Snow's deathbed he'll reveal whether this rumor was true). What is the general consensus on Ryan Murray these days? Is he average / good / very good? I don't watch too much CBJ and when I do, I focus on Seth Jones and Werenski.

 

[PK Cronin]

we all unfortunately saw Rocky IV.
“ I must break you”

You're upset Rocky ended the Cold War?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Good point!

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

When you think about the 2012 NHL Draft, it can be viewed as an interesting turning point for the Isles and the lynchpin for their ultimate turnaround and success. Even beyond just the eventual flip of Reinhart into Barzal and a share of Beauvillier.

First, I always thought Snow made mistakes in the 2010 and 2011 NHL Drafts, because I probably would have taken Cam Fowler and Doug Hamilton given the fit as projected BPA and the Isles dire need to restock the blue line.

I will also admit that I was really angry that the Devils won the lottery to move up and select Adam Larsson at #4, who I thought would be better than he is now. I also thought Ryan Murray would turn out better, of course some of that can be blamed on injury, and was disappointed we missed out on both.

Hearing that Snow was willing to move his entire draft class to select Murray, would have been an overpay and a knee-jerk reaction though. Thank the hockey gods that Columbus didn't bite.

I did like that Snow finally got serious and addressed the need on defense in 2012, although I was hoping for Trouba (once Murray and Galchenyuk were off the board) and loved Pokka and Pelech.

I really thought Pokka would be a far better player than he turned out to be, but at least he got the Isles Leddy in trade.

The all-Dman draft was extremely unorthodox and I think I remember Snow getting pretty lambasted for it in the post-draft analyses from your major hockey outlets.

Ultimately, we got Pelech and were able to turn Reinhart and Pokka into better things. But in light of those two players never having made it, the draft was a pretty miserable one.

What always kind of irked me about the Snow drafting was that the Islanders basically KILLED IT in both 2008 and 2009, then they had that crazy draft with Rosen being taken late and Jankowski being fired shortly thereafter. Things just didn't feel the same after that.

I had a chat with Jankowski a few years later at a U18 event: HF interview with Hockey Canada’s Ryan Jankowski - Hockey's Future

What you won't see in that article is any talk about his time working for the Islanders, but I naturally chatted him up about it off the record. He was not negative. He didn't show himself to be sour at the organization. He had a lot of praise for some of our players and some of the guys he felt were still going to prove themselves to be key figures, Lee being one of them. However, as expected, he also wasn't ready to comment on what went down at that draft and with his successive dismissal. Would have been cool to hear more on that.

Ultimately, I was also very irked by the 2010 & 2011 drafts as well, and admittedly for the same reasons you've listed (for the record, I had been pushing hard for Fowler and Couturier). Never cared for the whole "move an early and late second to move up slightly back into the first round" ploy, but both Nelson and Beauvillier are here and essential parts of our team, so can't really argue with the results. In addition, no-one can argue that Josh Ho-Sang doesn't have NHL ability - his problems are elsewhere and heck, maybe he'll turn it around one day.

One other pick from that draft class, Jesse Graham, I thought was very interesting. I saw quite a few of his games in Bridgeport and really believed he would have a chance to make the Isles and be a Jared Spurgeon-type player.

But, if I recall correctly, there were reports that he didn't work hard enough and lacked dedication, which was the reason why he kept getting bounced between the AHL and ECHL. Maybe under different management (like Lou, Trotz and co.) he would have developed better, improved his hockey IQ and added the necessary physical strength to make it to the NHL.

I know Graham played for Liiga this season, any reports on him from people who saw him play? Did he get strong enough to make an impact in that league?

You're right - and he put up 20 points and +9 in 40 games. He's 26 now and to be honest, I know what you're saying and think he may actually just be a real late bloomer. If he can have a real big season this year, who know what that might mean.

He can always use Brain Rafalski as a role model.

 

[scott99]

I also remember when we drafted Pelech, I think in the 3rd round you were very happy with the pick in that draft year. Let’s hope that Wilde has similar success.

Good memory, that was 8 years ago. Yeah I really liked that pick. Then again I liked the Ville Pokka pick too, so what do I know lol. Did not like the Reinhart pick, one of the few times I was right.

 

[NC 1972]

Good memory, that was 8 years ago. Yeah I really liked that pick. Then again I liked the Ville Pokka pick too, so what do I know lol. Did not like the Reinhart pick, one of the few times I was right.

I saw Reinhardt only in the Memorial Cup tournament and honestly I couldn’t understand his ranking. I truly believed it was hockey’s old boys network doing the father a favor and trying to create the next NHL hockey family, i,e. Sutter’s , Stahl’s.

 

[blinkman360]

The all-Dman draft was extremely unorthodox and I think I remember Snow getting pretty lambasted for it in the post-draft analyses from your major hockey outlets.

Ultimately, we got Pelech and were able to turn Reinhart and Pokka into better things. But in light of those two players never having made it, the draft was a pretty miserable one.

What always kind of irked me about the Snow drafting was that the Islanders basically KILLED IT in both 2008 and 2009, then they had that crazy draft with Rosen being taken late and Jankowski being fired shortly thereafter. Things just didn't feel the same after that.

I had a chat with Jankowski a few years later at a U18 event: HF interview with Hockey Canada’s Ryan Jankowski - Hockey's Future

What you won't see in that article is any talk about his time working for the Islanders, but I naturally chatted him up about it off the record. He was not negative. He didn't show himself to be sour at the organization. He had a lot of praise for some of our players and some of the guys he felt were still going to prove themselves to be key figures, Lee being one of them. However, as expected, he also wasn't ready to comment on what went down at that draft and with his successive dismissal. Would have been cool to hear more on that.

Ultimately, I was also very irked by the 2010 & 2011 drafts as well, and admittedly for the same reasons you've listed (for the record, I had been pushing hard for Fowler and Couturier). Never cared for the whole "move an early and late second to move up slightly back into the first round" ploy, but both Nelson and Beauvillier are here and essential parts of our team, so can't really argue with the results. In addition, no-one can argue that Josh Ho-Sang doesn't have NHL ability - his problems are elsewhere and heck, maybe he'll turn it around one day.



You're right - and he put up 20 points and +9 in 40 games. He's 26 now and to be honest, I know what you're saying and think he may actually just be a real late bloomer. If he can have a real big season this year, who know what that might mean.

He can always use Brain Rafalski as a role model.

Don’t forget the CdH trade up which was criticized at the time, but he ended up being one of our best defensemen for a good chunk of time.

Snow certainly missed on his fair share but overall did a good job of stocking the system, and turning the duds into assets before their value plummeted(Reinhart, Strome, Pokka, even Nino - as bad as the value was - it’s hard to picture this team without the identity that Clutterbuck and that 4th line bring).

Selling on Hammer at the best possible time, netting us a big return. Some of the contracts like JT’s original and the Pelech and Mayfield deals that are going to save our ass for the next couple of years.

The biggest mistakes he made were his undying loyalty to Cap for whatever reason, and his caving to the need to make a “splash” a few years ago and handing out that Ladd contract. Other than that I can’t hate on the guy. Didn’t win us shit but at least didn’t blow all of our assets on foolish Cup run fantasies which allowed Lou and Trotz to inherit a roster they could work with.

...or maybe I’m wrong and Trotz is just “that good” that he could have turned a team full of Andy Hilberts and Bruno Gervais’ into a contender. That wouldn’t really surprise me either.

 

[scott99]

I saw Reinhardt only in the Memorial Cup tournament and honestly I couldn’t understand his ranking. I truly believed it was hockey’s old boys network doing the father a favor and trying to create the next NHL hockey family, i,e. Sutter’s , Stahl’s.

Agree 100%, he was in the Memorial Cup tournament a few months prior to him being drafted, and I was not impressed at all.

 

[leeroggy]

Yeah, it was a surprise that Pelech dropped to the 3rd round. I remember a commentator on the NHL Network in some post-draft discussion went off on what a great pick Pelech was and he guaranteed he'd be a good NHLer.

When I was watching the Draft that year it was assumed Pelech would be a high 2nd round pick and it was a good chance we would take him there. Pokka was a bit of a surprise and to still have him there in the 3rd was very fortunate. TBH, Snow got lucky on that one. We would be roasting him today if someone like Nashville had taken him in the 2nd after us and he was a Top 4 starter for them now.

 

[leeroggy]

You're upset Rocky ended the Cold War?

Definitely, it came at the cost of Paulie somehow giving an agent power of attorney over the Balboa estate . . . never really figured out how that was legal.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Don’t forget the CdH trade up which was criticized at the time, but he ended up being one of our best defensemen for a good chunk of time.

Snow certainly missed ....

Actually, I was EXTREMELY critical of that move.

I wrote so many posts about it.

I've always been convinced that once they got that late 20s pick in the Campoli deal and started scouting the players expected to go there, they simply got infatuated with de Haan. Downright infatuated.

Throwing 4 picks out the window to grab this guy at 12 (although he was considered a late first in the months heading up to the draft) just felt INSANE!

I agree that he was well on his way to becoming a fine, perhaps very fine #3 Dman and that those shoulder injuries (of which he still suffers) really derailed what could have been a nice career.

But for the record, I only remember his being one of our best defensemen for exactly two seasons (16-17, 17-18), the second of which he only suited up for 33 games.

In other words, I think Pelech is basically about to surpass anything Calvin ever achieved here.

 

[steveat]

When you think about the 2012 NHL Draft, it can be viewed as an interesting turning point for the Isles and the lynchpin for their ultimate turnaround and success. Even beyond just the eventual flip of Reinhart into Barzal and a share of Beauvillier.

First, I always thought Snow made mistakes in the 2010 and 2011 NHL Drafts, because I probably would have taken Cam Fowler and Doug Hamilton given the fit as projected BPA and the Isles dire need to restock the blue line.

I will also admit that I was really angry that the Devils won the lottery to move up and select Adam Larsson at #4, who I thought would be better than he is now. I also thought Ryan Murray would turn out better, of course some of that can be blamed on injury, and was disappointed we missed out on both.

Hearing that Snow was willing to move his entire draft class to select Murray, would have been an overpay and a knee-jerk reaction though. Thank the hockey gods that Columbus didn't bite.

I did like that Snow finally got serious and addressed the need on defense in 2012, although I was hoping for Trouba (once Murray and Galchenyuk were off the board) and loved Pokka and Pelech.

I really thought Pokka would be a far better player than he turned out to be, but at least he got the Isles Leddy in trade.

One other pick from that draft class, Jesse Graham, I thought was very interesting. I saw quite a few of his games in Bridgeport and really believed he would have a chance to make the Isles and be a Jared Spurgeon-type player.

But, if I recall correctly, there were reports that he didn't work hard enough and lacked dedication, which was the reason why he kept getting bounced between the AHL and ECHL. Maybe under different management (like Lou, Trotz and co.) he would have developed better, improved his hockey IQ and added the necessary physical strength to make it to the NHL.

I know Graham played for Liiga this season, any reports on him from people who saw him play? Did he get strong enough to make an impact in that league?

The Murray draft was a very weak draft. Barely any of those drafted that year went on to any sort of decent success. Trading all the draft picks would have been fine. I don't think it would be an overpay.

 

[danteipp]

The Murray draft was a very weak draft. Barely any of those drafted that year went on to any sort of decent success. Trading all the draft picks would have been fine. I don't think it would be an overpay.

I don't think I would say that, especially with the value of hindsight.

The draft was definitely weak in terms of quality second round prospects and had few standout offensive players, however, there are a lot of quality defensemen and at least five No. 1 goalies that came out of that draft.

Given that the Islanders turned all of their picks into Pelech and then Barzal, Leddy and half of Beauvillier (via trade) it would have been a disaster if Snow traded all of his picks for a middling defenseman.