Islanders -- Lighthouse project

[IslesBeBack*]

Re-zoning on massive Lighthouse Project scheduled

This is huge that the TOH was able to overcome the BS and schedule the meeting. The catch? They scheduled the meeting when the Islanders play an exhibition game in Kansas City .. What does that mean? Wang was likely looking at this meeting to talk about specifics regarding a potential sale in the future to Kansas City and the Spirit Center. Will he choose to attend the Game or will he attend the biggest meeting of his project to date? What an evil politician Kate Murray is.

Anyways, if the Town of Hempstead approves the re-zoning of the land during this meeting, it is pretty much ends the TOH's involvement in the Lighthouse Project and we can look forward to a ground breaking this Spring once the season ends for the New York Islanders. The following steps after an approval of re-zoning: Lease with the County which has already been worked out because of their overwhelming stance behind Wang, and than subdivision of the land.

This could finally all come to an end September 22nd. A decade of waiting, political battles, fights, etc. The Islanders could remain Long Island's team, for sure, should this meeting go well. I anticipate it will.

 

[KevFu]

This is huge that the TOH was able to overcome the BS and schedule the meeting. The catch? They scheduled the meeting when the Islanders play an exhibition game in Kansas City .. What does that mean? Wang was likely looking at this meeting to talk about specifics regarding a potential sale in the future to Kansas City and the Spirit Center. Will he choose to attend the Game or will he attend the biggest meeting of his project to date? What an evil politician Kate Murray is.

Anyways, if the Town of Hempstead approves the re-zoning of the land during this meeting, it is pretty much ends the TOH's involvement in the Lighthouse Project and we can look forward to a ground breaking this Spring once the season ends for the New York Islanders. The following steps after an approval of re-zoning: Lease with the County which has already been worked out because of their overwhelming stance behind Wang, and than subdivision of the land.

This could finally all come to an end September 22nd. A decade of waiting, political battles, fights, etc. The Islanders could remain Long Island's team, for sure, should this meeting go well. I anticipate it will.

I think I actually respect Murray MORE for that scheduling gamesmanship. This whole time, she seemed to be a clueless, politician who failed to realize the Lighthouse was win-win.

This was a chess move. "Oh, use the KC threat on us? Well, this will show what an idle threat it really is."

 

[Titan124]

Wow. Just wow.

And here I thought that the Isles' management were the only ones who made such foolish long-term contract commitments. I had no idea that they have been on the receiving side of one since 1982.

Cablevision has to be sitting and stewing over how much they have to fork over for the rights to broadcast Isles games to 18,000 households, and will continue to do so for decades.

That has to be the worst deal in all of televised cable sports.

No, it gives cablevision a monopoly over the NY hockey teams. Cablevision (the owner of whom owns the rangers) pays 30 million to bury the Islanders under the Rangers

 

[CREW99AW]

No, it gives cablevision a monopoly over the NY hockey teams. Cablevision (the owner of whom owns the rangers) pays 30 million to bury the Islanders under the Rangers

You honestly think Dolan,is paying the isles $400M+ over the next 22 yrs,so the isles can be 'buried' under the rangers?

C'mon

 

[CREW99AW]

I'd hoped a vote would be taken at the Sept. 22nd zoning hearing,but now comes word from the foot dragging pols that no vote will be taken at that meeting.

More troubling is a report from a very credible blogger(Nick at the Light(house),saying that the agency hired to review the environmental impact,hasn't worked on the project for weeks.More stalling?



http://lettherebelighthouse.blogspot.com/

Friday, September 4, 2009
Are We Being Set Up?

This space has often written about Frederick P. Clark Associates, the Westchester-based environmental consultancy retained by the Town of Hempstead to spearhead the Lighthouse Project's environmental review.


First, as somebody who is not waist-deep in Long Islandpolitics every day, I was floored that Frederick P. Clark was a repeat donor to Kate Murray, who has retained the firm for countless projects, and nobody seemed to have an issue with this (To clarify: this is apparently a standard practice in Long Island politics. It doesn't make it right, but I'd be wrong to single out Kate Murray as well).


This appears to have come to a head, as Newsdaydeclared today that Frederick P. Clark has stopped working due to a billing dispute with the Lighthouse.

 

[Hawker14]

Wang should just get together with the Nets owner and go half on an arena in Brooklyn. he's not going to get public funding on the Island anyway, so either sink his own money into a new arena or just move the team out of NYC area and forfeit the $20 million/year local tv deal.

Something has to give.

 

[Brodie]

Wang should just get together with the Nets owner and go half on an arena in Brooklyn. he's not going to get public funding on the Island anyway, so either sink his own money into a new arena or just move the team out of NYC area and forfeit the $20 million/year local tv deal.

Something has to give.

The arena in Brooklyn is not hockey compatible.

 

[Kitsune]

The arena in Brooklyn is not hockey compatible.

Are you sure about that? Some of the first renders for the arena clearly show the Devils logo... so I believe it is being made hockey compatible.

 

[njdevsfn95]

Are you sure about that? Some of the first renders for the arena clearly show the Devils logo... so I believe it is being made hockey compatible.

now that would be weird......why would the Brooklyn arena have the Devils logo anywhere?

it had the NJ Nets logo because the owner wants to move the nba team to brooklyn and hopefully lure Lebron James while he's at it.

 

[kdb209]

Are you sure about that? Some of the first renders for the arena clearly show the Devils logo... so I believe it is being made hockey compatible.

The original design was, but when Ratner replaced Gehry as the architect and scaled back the deisign for cost reasons support for an NHL team was dropped.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/nyregion/05gehry.html

Developer Drops Gehry’s Design for Brooklyn Arena
By CHARLES V. BAGLI
Published: June 4, 2009

Citing financial concerns, the developer of the long-delayed Atlantic Yards project in Brooklyn has scrapped plans for a Frank Gehry-designed $1 billion glass-walled basketball arena for the Nets in favor of a less expensive arena.
...
If the arena is built, however, it will most likely take more than two years to complete. Unlike the Gehry design, the new arena would not accommodate a professional hockey team.

 

[CREW99AW]

Wang should just get together with the Nets owner and go half on an arena in Brooklyn. he's not going to get public funding on the Island anyway, so either sink his own money into a new arena or just move the team out of NYC area and forfeit the $20 million/year local tv deal.

Something has to give.

Ok again.Other then infrastructure(sp),this is a privately financed project.

He and Rechler are sinking their own money into this project.

 

[KevFu]

Botta says once the Oct. 3 deadline passes, the Islanders will have at least six municipalities discussion a venue for them.

Obviously, two are:
Nassau County/TOH (NVMC or Lighthouse)
Kansas City, Missouri (AEG arena ready to go; preseason game there

The third is most likely:
Queens - Citi Field area and the expecting redevelopment there.

I'd have to assume one is Hamilton - JB says he's only interested in PHX... but he tried with PIT and NASH, so odds are, he'll take a look if he loses in PHX (and he has six years to work on it)

Which leaves two of:
Saskatoon - (Islanders moved their camp there and will play a pair of preseason games there)
Las Vegas - (AEG connection with an arena plan waiting to start)
Suffolk County
Brooklyn
Hartford
Winnipeg
Portland
Seattle

 

[CREW99AW]

Botta says once the Oct. 3 deadline passes, the Islanders will have at least six municipalities discussion a venue for them.

Obviously, two are:
Nassau County/TOH (NVMC or Lighthouse)
Kansas City, Missouri (AEG arena ready to go; preseason game there

The third is most likely:
Queens - Citi Field area and the expecting redevelopment there.

I'd have to assume one is Hamilton - JB says he's only interested in PHX... but he tried with PIT and NASH, so odds are, he'll take a look if he loses in PHX (and he has six years to work on it)

Which leaves two of:
Saskatoon - (Islanders moved their camp there and will play a pair of preseason games there)
Las Vegas - (AEG connection with an arena plan waiting to start)
Suffolk County
Brooklyn
Hartford
Winnipeg
Portland
Seattle

Wang's the one calling for an Oct.3 deadline.His partner, developer Scott Rechler,has just as much riding on this deal as Wang does.If Wang did decide to sell the isles,I'd hope to see Rechler buy them.He keeps his Lighthouse project going,would be in line to demand a much more favorable lease,gets the cable deal and the team remains on LI.

 

[KevFu]

Wang's the one calling for an Oct.3 deadline.His partner, developer Scott Rechler,has just as much riding on this deal as Wang does.If Wang did decide to sell the isles,I'd hope to see Rechler buy them.He keeps his Lighthouse project going,would be in line to demand a much more favorable lease,gets the cable deal and the team remains on LI.

The Islanders' deadline is arbitrary, designed to get the LH approved.

The pressure from media and fans increases dramatically with the thread. Look how Pittsburgh got done once KC entered the picture. Same deal here.

If Wang decides to sell the Islanders, no one is buying them to keep them in Long Island. Their best bet would be Queens.
The Islanders are far more profitable in NY (after 2015) than anywhere else. They just need the arena to play in

 

[CREW99AW]

The Islanders' deadline is arbitrary, designed to get the LH approved.

The pressure from media and fans increases dramatically with the thread. Look how Pittsburgh got done once KC entered the picture. Same deal here.

If Wang decides to sell the Islanders, no one is buying them to keep them in Long Island. Their best bet would be Queens.
The Islanders are far more profitable in NY (after 2015) than anywhere else. They just need the arena to play in

KevFu, I'll tell you why I disagree with the blanket statement that no one is buying them to keep them in Long Island.

Let's say Wang opts out of his current lease,allowing the team to move anywhere in 2015.
1. Although Wang's set an Oct. deadline,his partner in the project hasn't.The pols and developers have talked for yrs about developing that land.It's never gotten as far along in the process as it has now,with public meetings,votes,impact studies,etc.

2.Because Wang's stamping his feet and saying Oct or else,doesn't mean Rechler(sp) is ready to pull the plug on the project.They won the development rights because Wang owned the isles.No Isles means the bidding is re-opened and Rechler is back to square 1,maybe trying to put together a 2nd winning bid.Does Rechler(sp) want to walk away at this point?If he doesn't,does he want to start over from square 1?
Wouldn't it be simpler to buy the team from Wang and let Wang walk away?

3.There's a lot of public support for the project.More then I think the foot dragging Republicans expected in this election yr.There'll be a lot of pressure on the pols, to offer up a much better lease for the new owner to keep the team on LI.

4.What keeps getting lost in these reports,is that the local cable deal is worth more then 2x the listed value of the franchise.

Look I hope Wang pushes his deal through.I understand the Oct. 3 date has been set to pressure the pols in an election yr.However, if Oct. 3rd comes and the project hasn't been greenlighted,then I'm hoping to read that Rechler,still wants to continue with the Lighthouse development and will buy the team from Wang.

 

[Space Herpe]

KevFu, I'll tell you why I disagree with the blanket statement that no one is buying them to keep them in Long Island.

Let's say Wang opts out of his current lease,allowing the team to move anywhere in 2015.

Can Wang just 'opt' out of the current lease?

Do you mean buy out?

I'm curious as to how the Phoenix bankruptcy and breaking the leasing with Jobing.com arena might affect this.

 

[LadyStanley]

The lease the Islanders have with NCMC ends like in 2015. So no need to "buy out", just wait out the lease normal expiration.

Gives you 4+ seasons to find a new home and/or owner.

 

[CREW99AW]

Can Wang just 'opt' out of the current lease?

Do you mean buy out?

I'm curious as to how the Phoenix bankruptcy and breaking the leasing with Jobing.com arena might affect this.

From what I've read,if the Lighthouse isn't approved,Wang has an opt out clause.It would allow him to move the team in 2015.No buyout.

I think the Phoenix courtroom fight could have an impact on the isles situation.Part of the NHL's legal argument, is that local rivalries are a big part of the NHL's success.So team's can't just be moved.

I'd expect Bettman to join forces with LI pols and fans,fighting to keep the isles on LI,just as he's fighting to keep the Yotes in Phoenix.

 

[CREW99AW]

The lease the Islanders have with NCMC ends like in 2015. So no need to "buy out", just wait out the lease normal expiration.

Gives you 4+ seasons to find a new home and/or owner.

Part of Wang's winning bid for the land development deal,was extending the lease until 2025.

about 1/4 of the way down the page.Under the title Charles in charge at HUB.
http://www.islesinfo.com/NassauColiseum.html

 

[KevFu]

I fully agree that Wang isn't just going to sell the team until the Lighthouse is dead.

What I'm saying is that if the Lighthouse dies, who on earth is going to buy a team to stay on Long Island (including Brooklyn & Queens) knowing:

A - it can't make money in its current location.
B - it can't build a new arena in its current location.
C - The length of time it takes to get an arena approved elsewhere on Long Island is still ridiculous, and would mean the Islanders have to extend the current lease a few years (see point A).

Keep in mind it took the Mets and Yankees over a decade to get their new stadiums approved/funded/built. The Brooklyn Nets arena has been in the works for five years and still hasn't put a shovel in the ground. And of course, the NVMC site hasn't been approved for development of anything other than the Coliseum even though they've been trying for 48 years.

 

[CREW99AW]

I fully agree that Wang isn't just going to sell the team until the Lighthouse is dead.

What I'm saying is that if the Lighthouse dies, who on earth is going to buy a team to stay on Long Island (including Brooklyn & Queens) knowing:

A - it can't make money in its current location.
B - it can't build a new arena in its current location.
C - The length of time it takes to get an arena approved elsewhere on Long Island is still ridiculous, and would mean the Islanders have to extend the current lease a few years (see point A).

Keep in mind it took the Mets and Yankees over a decade to get their new stadiums approved/funded/built. The Brooklyn Nets arena has been in the works for five years and still hasn't put a shovel in the ground. And of course, the NVMC site hasn't been approved for development of anything other than the Coliseum even though they've been trying for 48 years.

Wang's demanding an answer from the Town of Hempstead by Oct.3rd.The ToH pols are saying they don't expect to have a decision by Oct. 3rd.If Wang sticks to his deadline,but his partner doesn't have the same demand about a final decision by Oct.3rd,then I'm wondering if we won't see Rechler trying to buy the team and Wang leave.

If Wang opts out of his lease to sell the team,the old money losing lease is voided.The isles are no longer tied into one of the worst leases in sports.

Wang's owned the team for 8/9 yrs and one of the first things the local pols told the new owner 8/9 yrs ago,was that he'd be getting a new arena.It's not like the isles have suddenly woken up and asked the County pols about a new arena.


Faced with the threat of the team moving,I expect Nassau County pols would give Rechler(or any new local owner), a much more favorable new lease deal to stay.
Much better lease terms and a $400m+ cablevision deal,would make the isles much more attractive to local buyers.

 

[kdb209]

Wang's demanding an answer from the Town of Hempstead by Oct.3rd.The ToH pols are saying they don't expect to have a decision by Oct. 3rd.If Wang sticks to his deadline,but his partner doesn't have the same demand about a final decision by Oct.3rd,then I'm wondering if we won't see Rechler trying to buy the team and Wang leave.

If Wang opts out of his lease to sell the team,the old money losing lease is voided.The isles are no longer tied into one of the worst leases in sports.

Wang's owned the team for 8/9 yrs and one of the first things the local pols told the new owner 8/9 yrs ago,was that he'd be getting a new arena.It's not like the isles have suddenly woken up and asked the County pols about a new arena.


Faced with the threat of the team moving,I expect Nassau County pols would give Rechler(or any new local owner), a much more favorable new lease deal to stay.
Much better lease terms and a $400m+ cablevision deal,would make the isles much more attractive to local buyers.

There is no way to opt out of the lease or move the team until it expires in 2015 - barring trying to go the Moyes/JB/Rodier approach.

 

[KevFu]

Wang's demanding an answer from the Town of Hempstead by Oct.3rd.The ToH pols are saying they don't expect to have a decision by Oct. 3rd.If Wang sticks to his deadline,but his partner doesn't have the same demand about a final decision by Oct.3rd,then I'm wondering if we won't see Rechler trying to buy the team and Wang leave.

If Wang opts out of his lease to sell the team,the old money losing lease is voided.The isles are no longer tied into one of the worst leases in sports.

Wang's owned the team for 8/9 yrs and one of the first things the local pols told the new owner 8/9 yrs ago,was that he'd be getting a new arena.It's not like the isles have suddenly woken up and asked the County pols about a new arena.


Faced with the threat of the team moving,I expect Nassau County pols would give Rechler(or any new local owner), a much more favorable new lease deal to stay.
Much better lease terms and a $400m+ cablevision deal,would make the isles much more attractive to local buyers.

I'm not sure what we're arguing. I think we agree.

All the Oct. 3 deadline is from Wang is threats and leverage designed to get politicians to use their rubber stamp and get a shovel in the ground already.

He came out with the deadline, announced the KC exhibition game, etc. It was all just to plant a seed of "Holy crap, this guy is serious. We COULD lose the Islanders."

The NVMC lease still has six more years on it. The whole "talking to other cities" thing is just to drum up media/fan pressure on politicians. They can't leave until 2016 anyway.


Where I think we disagree, is that if the Lighthouse was killed on Oct. 3 (which its probably not going to be killed, dead. It's going to be dragged out, slow painful life/death). then no one would want to buy the team, because there'd be zero prospect of a new arena before the lease is up in 2015; which means six years of losing money, then moving to somewhere less profitable than NY.

This entire thing is a staredown between SMG/TOH and the Islanders.

The Islanders WANT to stay, but on their terms
The TOH/SMG want the Isles to stay, but on their terms.

What's scares me most is that the Islanders' best financial option is NY, but without an arena and the freedom from SMG... KC or elsewhere is a better financial option that losing $25 million in revenue to SMG.

 

[CREW99AW]

There is no way to opt out of the lease or move the team until it expires in 2015 - barring trying to go the Moyes/JB/Rodier approach.

Part of Wang's winning bid,when he was awarded the development project by the County,was extending the lease until 2025.I posted a link above showing this extension was part of Wang's HUB bid.

No Lighthouse deal would mean Wang gets to opt out of the extension,move the team in 2015.

 

[CREW99AW]

I'm not sure what we're arguing. I think we agree.

All the Oct. 3 deadline is from Wang is threats and leverage designed to get politicians to use their rubber stamp and get a shovel in the ground already.

He came out with the deadline, announced the KC exhibition game, etc. It was all just to plant a seed of "Holy crap, this guy is serious. We COULD lose the Islanders."

The NVMC lease still has six more years on it. The whole "talking to other cities" thing is just to drum up media/fan pressure on politicians. They can't leave until 2016 anyway.


Where I think we disagree, is that if the Lighthouse was killed on Oct. 3 (which its probably not going to be killed, dead. It's going to be dragged out, slow painful life/death). then no one would want to buy the team, because there'd be zero prospect of a new arena before the lease is up in 2015; which means six years of losing money, then moving to somewhere less profitable than NY.

This entire thing is a staredown between SMG/TOH and the Islanders.

The Islanders WANT to stay, but on their terms
The TOH/SMG want the Isles to stay, but on their terms.

What's scares me most is that the Islanders' best financial option is NY, but without an arena and the freedom from SMG... KC or elsewhere is a better financial option that losing $25 million in revenue to SMG.

I realize the Oct. 3rd date is set to pressure the pols and the team can't move until 2015.I don't think SMG has much to do with the standoff between the ToH and Wang's group.

What I'm saying is,if Wang truly wants to walk away,opting out of the current lease would allow a new local owner, to get a much more favorable lease.A new lease+a fat cable deal + SMG out of the picture would make the team more attractive to possible local buyers.