Islanders fire Barry Trotz - Should the Jets Hire Him - Poll ?

[StumpyTown]

My wishlist:
1 - Hire Trotz (Throw the bank at him, the Jets need a guy like this to right the ship)
2 - Scheifme needs to go. His value will still be exceptional with that contract so the Jets should be able to get either a couple blue chip prospects or a solid top line roster player.
3 - Wheels showed some serious gumption and effort at the end of the year. Almost like he figured out that he was part of the problem on the ice earlier in the season. If he plays anything like that buying him out would be a mistake.

The Jets proved they could win without Scheifme and Wheels in the lineup. Removing Scheifme and getting a solid player in return and Wheels being put in his place by a new coach will make this team a playoff team again. If Chevy can shuffle the deck on D again they could be very good next season.

I'm cautiously optimistic for the summer for this team. I'm also worried that because it's Winnipeg a guy like Trotz won't want to come there.

 

[surixon]

Some stuff from Kevin Lurz, who's one of the Athletic's Islanders guys:

"While young players, like Noah Dobson and Ilya Sorokin, did take huge strides this season, others, like Oliver Wahlstrom, did not. Trotz’s handling of Wahlstrom was a particularly hot-button topic throughout the second half, as was the coach’s long leash for veterans who struggled in the early part of the season."

"One league source with knowledge of the Islanders’ dressing room pushed back on Lamoriello’s assertion that the decision was made without any player input, pointing out that the general manager surely knew what they were thinking after holding the standard individual player meetings immediately after the season."

"At least some players on the Islanders were not surprised by Monday’s apparent bombshell, according to a league source.

“Is it fun to play that way?” the source said. “Is it fun to have your stick in a certain lane all the time? You don’t play with instinct. It adds up after a while. With his style of play and his structure, you’re either all-in or you’re not. If you’re not all-in, it’s not going to work. It’s as simple as that.”"

That was with the Islanders all out defensive scheme though. I doubt he runs anything near as restrictive here. You didn't see anything like that on the Caps teams. From what all these beat reporters and analysts are saying is he matches his schemes to what players he has. He would not be able to run that Islander system here nor would he want to.

 

[WaveRaven]

Well once again sounds like the perfect coach for us.

This market has to play a hard working defense oriented style. We are not a FA destination and getting high end skill will always be hard.

I've said before think a Boston type model.

 

[kanadalainen]

It's making me weary of hiring him as the Jets' HC.

I'm always wary of weary posters.

 

[DRW204]

As for Trotz and the youngsters in NYI...

NYI draft pipeline is disgustingly bad. Who is he supposed to play? They have no strong offensive prospects from the looks of it. For defense, Dobson developed well there, Toews too. Look at players like Pelechs emergence too.

Then consider how vet heavy Lou made this line up. Exposing Eberle to Seattle to protect Martin and clutterbuck, trading 1sts for JP Pageau and Zajac/Palms. Take a peak at the signings in nyi through cap friendly.

The good youth options are limited there.

 

[tbcwpg]

As for Trotz and the youngsters in NYI...

NYI draft pipeline is disgustingly bad. Who is he supposed to play? They have no strong offensive prospects from the looks of it. For defense, Dobson developed well there, Toews too. Look at players like Pelechs emergence too.

Then consider how vet heavy Lou made this line up. Exposing Eberle to Seattle to protect Martin and clutterbuck, trading 1sts for JP Pageau and Zajac/Palms. Take a peak at the signings in nyi through cap friendly.

The good youth options are limited there.

Yeah it was a strange criticism because their prospect pool is terrible. They have some ok pieces like Raty but otherwise their development of players like Bellows has gone stagnant. Wahlstrom hasn't been as good as they'd hoped but I don't really see that as a Trotz thing.

 

[oldunclehue]

One question our ownership needs to really worry on is fan support in the rink. I've been to multiple NYI Islanders games when he was coaching....and the games are BORING, its the style he coaches, which wins and usually brings out more out of rosters. But it is BORING.

Will fans pay for season tickets to come watch games where KFC, Ehlers, Sheifs etc etc are expected to play defense first and win games 3-2?

I know winning is everything, but paying thousands of dollars to watch defensive hockey is something the owners have to really think about.

 

[Romang67]

Yeah it was a strange criticism because their prospect pool is terrible. They have some ok pieces like Raty but otherwise their development of players like Bellows has gone stagnant. Wahlstrom hasn't been as good as they'd hoped but I don't really see that as a Trotz thing.

Yeah, the criticism that Wahlstrom didn't perform well seems a bit off, given that Wahlstrom was a .5P/G player in the NCAA in his draft+1 year and a .5P/G player in the AHL in his draft+2 year. As a comparison, known superstar Jack Roslovic was at close to .75P/G in those seasons.

And as others have said, who else do they even have?

One question our ownership needs to really worry on is fan support in the rink. I've been to multiple NYI Islanders games when he was coaching....and the games are BORING, its the style he coaches, which wins and usually brings out more out of rosters. But it is BORING.

Will fans pay for season tickets to come watch games where KFC, Ehlers, Sheifs etc etc are expected to play defense first and win games 3-2?

I know winning is everything, but paying thousands of dollars to watch defensive hockey is something the owners have to really think about.

That criticism about Trotz has been around forever, but it hasn't been true when he has had offensive star-power on the team. The Caps weren't a boring team under him. The Preds weren't the few seasons when they weren't just a strong D coupled with a no-talent offense. Looking at the Islanders roster, how is that roster supposed to play that isn't a suffocating defensive style?

 

[sipowicz]

One question our ownership needs to really worry on is fan support in the rink. I've been to multiple NYI Islanders games when he was coaching....and the games are BORING, its the style he coaches, which wins and usually brings out more out of rosters. But it is BORING.

Will fans pay for season tickets to come watch games where KFC, Ehlers, Sheifs etc etc are expected to play defense first and win games 3-2?

I know winning is everything, but paying thousands of dollars to watch defensive hockey is something the owners have to really think about.

Fans pay to see a winning team or a team that plays hard neither of which the Jets did last season!

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I don't think he has a boring style. A demanding style for sure. He is the type of coach now that will wear teams out over a long haul. But he would be great in the short term here

 

[Royale With Cheese]

One question our ownership needs to really worry on is fan support in the rink. I've been to multiple NYI Islanders games when he was coaching....and the games are BORING, its the style he coaches, which wins and usually brings out more out of rosters. But it is BORING.

Will fans pay for season tickets to come watch games where KFC, Ehlers, Sheifs etc etc are expected to play defense first and win games 3-2?

I know winning is everything, but paying thousands of dollars to watch defensive hockey is something the owners have to really think about.

It's not unreasonable to ask what you're asking, but ultimately a 3-2 win feels better than a 6-5 loss, doesn't it? Put a big string of those 3-2 wins together and you're looking at a playoff team. So while I'd love to watch KFC stretch for 50 goals every year, I'd much rather have a winning team no matter what those wins look like.

 

[DRW204]

That criticism about Trotz has been around forever, but it hasn't been true when he has had offensive star-power on the team. The Caps weren't a boring team under him. The Preds weren't the few seasons when they weren't just a strong D coupled with a no-talent offense. Looking at the Islanders roster, how is that roster supposed to play that isn't a suffocating defensive style?

Even the caps... He relied heavy on ovie, backs and Carlson.... I mean who wouldn't? Those were 3 of the top producers at the time. Orlov and Kuzy still played key roles as players in their mid 20s.
I guess vrana and burakovsky could have been played more. But it's not like there were poor wingers being played ahead of them (ie oshie, ovie, Wilson for instance).
Maybe to much reliance on brooks orpik with Carlson? However when they acquired kempny they pretty much ended orpik on that pairing.

 

[oldunclehue]

That criticism about Trotz has been around forever, but it hasn't been true when he has had offensive star-power on the team. The Caps weren't a boring team under him. The Preds weren't the few seasons when they weren't just a strong D coupled with a no-talent offense. Looking at the Islanders roster, how is that roster supposed to play that isn't a suffocating defensive style?

Oh yes you have changed my mind oh so quickly with your fact based post. I clearly said I've gone to multiple ISLANDERS games since he took over and have seen his recent coaching style.

They have:

Barzal
Nelson
Lee
Bailey
Beauvillier
Dobson
Whalstrom

All very talented offensive players. All playing a very defensive style. I'm sure they would have more points with Maurice and Lowry.

Again...my question was will ownership take the risk of having 41 home games that could be based around Trotz defensive style.

 

[TS Quint]

As for Trotz and the youngsters in NYI...

NYI draft pipeline is disgustingly bad. Who is he supposed to play? They have no strong offensive prospects from the looks of it. For defense, Dobson developed well there, Toews too. Look at players like Pelechs emergence too.

Then consider how vet heavy Lou made this line up. Exposing Eberle to Seattle to protect Martin and clutterbuck, trading 1sts for JP Pageau and Zajac/Palms. Take a peak at the signings in nyi through cap friendly.

The good youth options are limited there.

Don’t worry, fans here will still blame Trotz here if Heinola continues to suck.

 

[Romang67]

Oh yes you have changed my mind oh so quickly with your fact based post. I clearly said I've gone to multiple ISLANDERS games since he took over and have seen his recent coaching style.

They have:

Barzal
Nelson
Lee
Bailey
Beauvillier
Dobson
Whalstrom

All very talented offensive players. All playing a very defensive style. I'm sure they would have more points with Maurice and Lowry.

Again...my question was will ownership take the risk of having 41 home games that could be based around Trotz defensive style.

What a weird response.

Anyway:

Barzal is a talented offensive player
Nelson never hit 50 points before Trotz joined them. He had a whooping 35 points in 82 games the year before Trotz joined the team.
Lee had one amazing season where he hit 40 goals playing with Tavares. In his career year, before Trotz, he was about a 60 point player. Other than that, he has been around a 50 point player.
Bailey had the same thing, one career year, otherwise just over a 50 point player, whether playing with Trotz or without.
Beauvillier was a high producing player in the Q. There hasn't really been any evidence that he would be a producer in the NHL. He would hardly be the first small player out of the Q who doesn't turn out to be a producer in the NHL.
Dobson just hit 51 points in 80 games as a 21/22 year old D-man playing under Trotz. Not sure how that is any evidence that supports your claim.
Wahlstrom, as I pointed out above, was a .5P/G player in the NCAA and in the AHL. Why would he be a talented offensive player in the NHL when he couldn't produce in those leagues?

Is THAT the talented group of players who Trotz should be playing an offensive style of hockey with?

 

[surixon]

What a weird response.

Anyway:

Barzal is a talented offensive player
Nelson never hit 50 points before Trotz joined them. He had a whooping 35 points in 82 games the year before Trotz joined the team.
Lee had one amazing season where he hit 40 goals playing with Tavares. In his career year, before Trotz, he was about a 60 point player. Other than that, he has been around a 50 point player.
Bailey had the same thing, one career year, otherwise just over a 50 point player, whether playing with Trotz or without.
Beauvillier was a high producing player in the Q. There hasn't really been any evidence that he would be a producer in the NHL. He would hardly be the first small player out of the Q who doesn't turn out to be a producer in the NHL.
Dobson just hit 51 points in 80 games as a 21/22 year old D-man playing under Trotz. Not sure how that is any evidence that supports your claim.
Wahlstrom, as I pointed out above, was a .5P/G player in the NCAA and in the AHL. Why would he be a talented offensive player in the NHL when he couldn't produce in those leagues?

Is THAT the talented group of players who Trotz should be playing an offensive style of hockey with?

The Islanders have bottom 5 to 10 forward talent in the league so no surprise they didn't run an offensive system. They had a bunch of grinding players so they ran a checking game. Sorry if Barzal is the one player it inconvenienced up front.

 

[cbcwpg]

One question our ownership needs to really worry on is fan support in the rink. I've been to multiple NYI Islanders games when he was coaching....and the games are BORING, its the style he coaches, which wins and usually brings out more out of rosters. But it is BORING.

Will fans pay for season tickets to come watch games where KFC, Ehlers, Sheifs etc etc are expected to play defense first and win games 3-2?

I know winning is everything, but paying thousands of dollars to watch defensive hockey is something the owners have to really think about.

In 2017-18 when Trotz won the Stanley Cup with the Caps, the rankings compared to the Jets were:

CF% the Jets were 9th and Wash was 24th
FF% the Jets were 7th and Wash was 27th

Scoring Chances Against - the Jets were 2nd best and Wash was 24th
High Danger Chances Against - the Jets were 6th best and Wash was 29th

It could be said that the Jets were better than the Caps , and much more so defensively. The Caps gave up way more scoring chances than the Jets.

So I guess, was this because without Trotz the Caps would have been even worse? Or did Trotz manage to get an offensively minded team to just play enough defense to allow them to win? Don't know, but saying Trotz had the Caps playing boring hockey would be wrong IMO. Looked more wide open at both ends of the rink.

And as others have said, given the NYI roster, boring is all he could do with those guys.

I think Trotz would get the current Jets looking more like the Caps when they won as opposed to looking like the NYI he just finished with. JMO.

 

[pictman]

On " boring hockey : I think it makes a difference what city the fans are in. In Winnipeg most of the fans have played some hockey, even as a kid or beer league. Most fans understand that every hockey player has defensive responsibilities and if they don't fulfill those your team goes nowhere. Most fans appreciate when you see a guy who puts his head down and burns it back with everything he's got to make that backcheck. I think it's where all the anger and apathy has come from this year. We can all see and understand that starting with 55 there are players on this team that aren't/won't fulfill their defensive obligations . I have no doubt that if Trotz will come here fans will enjoy both " proper hockey " and more wins.

 

[surixon]

In 2017-18 when Trotz won the Stanley Cup with the Caps, the rankings compared to the Jets were:

CF% the Jets were 9th and Wash was 24th
FF% the Jets were 7th and Wash was 27th

Scoring Chances Against - the Jets were 2nd best and Wash was 24th
High Danger Chances Against - the Jets were 6th best and Wash was 29th

It could be said that the Jets were better than the Caps , and much more so defensively. The Caps gave up way more scoring chances than the Jets.

So I guess, was this because without Trotz the Caps would have been even worse? Or did Trotz manage to get an offensively minded team to just play enough defense to allow them to win? Don't know, but saying Trotz had the Caps playing boring hockey would be wrong IMO. Looked more wide open at both ends of the rink.

And as others have said, given the NYI roster, boring is all he could do with those guys.

I think Trotz would get the current Jets looking more like the Caps when they won as opposed to looking like the NYI he just finished with. JMO.

That last year was also when things fell off the rails a bit for the Caps in the regular season and Trotz was almost let go. His other years the Caps were a top 1/3 to mid pack metric team. Their defensive chances against were fairly regularly around the 1/3 mark. I'd be quite fine if he got our metrics to the top 1/3 mark. I'd imagine our goaltending and skill would take care of the rest.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Dealing with young players is always going to be an issue. They come from junior where they could play however they felt like because they were always the best players and were always producing, but the NHL isn't like that. And it's always a hard adjustment for them and takes time.

The question is, do you want to win? And playing a more structured game under Trotz seems to point to having more team success. And JMO, but it looked to me that Ovi was still having fun while winning the Cup under Trotz.

Like anything, structure could be overdone. But because Jets have gotten so accustomed to neglecting structure and defense, I think Trotz is the kind of coach Jets need right now. After a couple of years under him, it might become a time to loosen up a bit. But right now, the Jets require a major repair job.

 

[Channelcat]

Oh yes you have changed my mind oh so quickly with your fact based post. I clearly said I've gone to multiple ISLANDERS games since he took over and have seen his recent coaching style.

They have:

Barzal
Nelson
Lee
Bailey
Beauvillier
Dobson
Whalstrom

All very talented offensive players. All playing a very defensive style. I'm sure they would have more points with Maurice and Lowry.

Again...my question was will ownership take the risk of having 41 home games that could be based around Trotz defensive style.

I would absolutely love to see a defensive minded team here.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

One question our ownership needs to really worry on is fan support in the rink. I've been to multiple NYI Islanders games when he was coaching....and the games are BORING, its the style he coaches, which wins and usually brings out more out of rosters. But it is BORING.

Will fans pay for season tickets to come watch games where KFC, Ehlers, Sheifs etc etc are expected to play defense first and win games 3-2?

I know winning is everything, but paying thousands of dollars to watch defensive hockey is something the owners have to really think about.

I agree it is an issue, but I think winning will take care of it.

 

[Jimmyjets]

For season ticket holders I know I'm fine with boring and winning or wide open and losing. The boring and losing IMO is what we had this year is that what will make Season ticket holders mad. Nobody is upset headed home from the rink with a 1-0 win for the Jets.

Someone made a comment about winning games 3-2... we only averaged 3 goals per game this season so really there would be no downtick in scoring for this group if that held true.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

In 2017-18 when Trotz won the Stanley Cup with the Caps, the rankings compared to the Jets were:

CF% the Jets were 9th and Wash was 24th
FF% the Jets were 7th and Wash was 27th

Scoring Chances Against - the Jets were 2nd best and Wash was 24th
High Danger Chances Against - the Jets were 6th best and Wash was 29th

It could be said that the Jets were better than the Caps , and much more so defensively. The Caps gave up way more scoring chances than the Jets.

So I guess, was this because without Trotz the Caps would have been even worse? Or did Trotz manage to get an offensively minded team to just play enough defense to allow them to win? Don't know, but saying Trotz had the Caps playing boring hockey would be wrong IMO. Looked more wide open at both ends of the rink.

And as others have said, given the NYI roster, boring is all he could do with those guys.

I think Trotz would get the current Jets looking more like the Caps when they won as opposed to looking like the NYI he just finished with. JMO.

Looking back at that season, the Jets were SOO much better than the Caps. +59 goal differential for Jets vs +20 for that Caps. How did they win and we lose? Statistics really are for losers.

 

[DRW204]

if trotz hockey is boring.... what does that say about maurice where over the past 3 seasons (majority under maurice) the Jets have a whopping 5 more goals at 5v5 hockey comparatively?

Jets are evidently better on the PP as they should be given the talent gap in offense b/w WPG vs NYI. but at 5v5 hockey our offense is closer to average among nhl teams