Is Thornton the most underrated generational talent?

[Nylanderthal]

Anything more than Wayne, Mario and Bobby is debatable.

Those three exist in a class above all else beyond “generational” Lidstrom Hasek & Jagr defined the mid 90’s-the first lock out and in Lidstrom’s case well beyond that even.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Generational by definition would insinuate that he was the best player during his career which he never was. So no. And 1-2 years of being the "best" doesn't mean you are generational either as many posters have brought up. Drai isn't generational just because he won a Art Ross/Hart and will continue to put up 95-100+ pts for the rest of his career because McDavid is in his generation.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Ovechkin: Calder, 1 Art Ross, 3 Harts, 3 Lindsays, 9 Rockets, 1 Conn Smythe, 12 1st+2nd All-Star Teams

Crosby: 2 Art Ross, 2 Harts, 3 Lindsays, 2 Rockets, 2 Conn Smythes, 8 1st+2nd All-Star Teams

McDavid: 2 Art Ross, 1 Hart, 2 Lindsays, 3 1st+2nd All-Star Teams

Malkin: Calder, 2 Art Ross, 1 Hart, 1 Lindsay, 1 Conn Smythe, 3 1st+2nd All-Star Teams

Thornton: 1 Art Ross, 1 Hart, 4 1st+2nd All-Star Teams
.

Hall of famer but not generational.

 

[Number8]

Joe Thornton will go down with Marcel Dionne as one of the greatest players of all time who never won a cup.


If I were to place him among the all-time greats, I guess he's somewhere around where I'd place Hawerchuk, Lafontaine, and Kariya?

I see what you did there and I personally want to thank you for the chuckle. I tip my hat to you. Well done.

 

[Number8]

As a Boston fan, it seems that a lot of people getting unnecessarily bent out of shape here.

Bobby Orr: Generational Player
Ray Bourque: Not a Generational Player

And Ray Bourque was a f***ing horse. A superb hockey player. One of the better defenseman to ever play the game. A true leader. Defensively great. Offensively great. A guy that every GM in the League would have given a King's ransom to have in a trade. Again, just an absolute horse. Just not a Generational Player.

Is that slagging off Ray Bourque? No. Or at least re-reading the above it sure as hell doesn't sound like it.

Generational players come about...... well, once every generation or so. I say "or so" because if a given generation doesn't have the talent necessary? Guess what? It skips a generation.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I'd rank him in the tier of Oates or Hawerchuk not quite Generational but up there. What a career happy he came to the Leafs.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Is the term generational now going to be applied to really good players?

And does that make the likes of Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid into centurions?

 

[Gnova]

I think it is past time that they rename the NHL Talk main board to HFLeafs2.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Is the term generational now going to be applied to really good players?

And does that make the likes of Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid into centurions?

I'm pretty sure they'd be millenials.

 

[Ukapitalo]

Yes, because his post game interviews were generational.

 

[beowulf]

Not a generational talent. Really great player overall but not way ahead of others of his generation and it could be easily argued others of his generation were better.

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

People always talked about Thornton as if he could be the best but he never did separate himself. He's overrated.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Generational:

Wayne Gretzky
Mario Lemieux
Sidney Crosby
Alex Ovechkin
Connor Mcdavid

Not Generational:

Joe Thornton

 

[Toronto makebeleifs]

I love big Joe. In his prime, he was a dominant player. He's a first ballot HOF guy. He is not a generational type player. When you talk about excellent players-sackic, fedorov, yzerman, Francis et all- he's right there. It's rarified air to be in the same discussion as gretz, lemieux, jagr, and Howe.

 

[Voight]

Anything more than Wayne, Mario and Bobby is debatable.

Disagree, Howe is in that discussion. Thats why its Big 4.

 

[jetsforever]

Anything more than Wayne, Mario and Bobby is debatable.

Considering the NHL has been around for >100 years, chances are there are more than 3 'once-in-a-generation' players, basically by definition.

 

[McAsuno]

why not?

Because he isn't. He's suddenly generational now that he's a leaf?
What a joke.

 

[MrOT]

He's not even generational. He's ahead of Henrik Sedin ever so slightly, who has the same playing style and whom he went head to head with, is Henrik borderline generational? No. Is Thornton generational? No. Thornton's prime numbers are also somewhat inflated for having his peak right in the high scoring post lockout era with a few seasons of much more PP time and higher scoring than usual the last 25 years.

 

[cowboy82nd]

prob best pass in nhl history

I’ll take the Huberdeau one from the other night, over this.

 

[MrOT]

Generational:

Wayne Gretzky
Mario Lemieux
Sidney Crosby
Alex Ovechkin
Connor Mcdavid

Not Generational:

Joe Thornton

Bobby and Gordie says hi

 

[The Kingslayer]

Bobby and Gordie says hi

Maurice Richard also says hi

 

[Foppberg]

He's not one. He's in the Sakic/Yzerman etc tier.

Still amazing though.

 

[cowboy82nd]

So basically this is HFboards. Because

Players currently in league with 3 or more 100 pt seasons

Evgeni Malkin (106. 109, 113) - HFboards verdict - generational
Sidney Crosby (102, 120, 103, 109, 104, 100) HFboards verdict - generational
Alex Ovechkin (106, 112, 110, 109) HFboards verdict - generational
Connor McDavid (100, 108, 116) HFboards verdict - generational
Joe Thornton (101, 125, 114) HFboards verdict - hahahaaha he sucks. He's not even franchise.

Well, if you’re going be these standards, you are forgetting some people. Like, Mike Bossy, Bobby Clarke, Glen Anderson, Paul Coffey and others. Are all of these players generational?

 

[MrOT]

[QUOTE="illpucks said: ↑

So basically this is HFboards. Because

Players currently in league with 3 or more 100 pt seasons

Evgeni Malkin (106. 109, 113) - HFboards verdict - generational
Sidney Crosby (102, 120, 103, 109, 104, 100) HFboards verdict - generational
Alex Ovechkin (106, 112, 110, 109) HFboards verdict - generational
Connor McDavid (100, 108, 116) HFboards verdict - generational
Joe Thornton (101, 125, 114) HFboards verdict - hahahaaha he sucks. He's not even franchise.[/QUOTE]

This is so lame. Thornton's prime numbers are somewhat inflated for having his peak right in the high scoring post lockout era with a few seasons of much more PP time and higher scoring than usual the last 25 years. Raw numbers like that don't say much without context.

Let me try:
Evgeni Malkin (106. 109, 113) - HFboards verdict - generational
Sidney Crosby (102, 120, 103, 109, 104, 100) HFboards verdict - generational
Alex Ovechkin (106, 112, 110, 109) HFboards verdict - generational
Connor McDavid (100, 108, 116) HFboards verdict - generational
Joe Thornton (101, 125, 114) HFboards verdict - hahahaaha he sucks. He's not even franchise.
Kent Nilsson (131, 107, 107, 104) THE most underrated generational player in that case.



​

 

[abo9]

Well, if you’re going be these standards, you are forgetting some people. Like, Mike Bossy, Bobby Clarke, Glen Anderson, Paul Coffey and others. Are all of these players generational?

I think illpucks was comparing Thornton's peers - those that played during his generation. I can't name one "generational" player who was not considered generational before he was drafted or shortly after, so I think his "slow" start in the NHL hurts his credentials for many. Also recency bias, the guy has not looked like an HHOF for a couple years now so it's easy to get caught up in that - but he was considered the best playmaker in the league for quite a while.

Looking more into it he might very wellbe, if only as a "generational playmaker". I mean who's this generation's Joe Thornton? Is there a playmaker of his calibre in the league right now?

Ultimately though, he was never "the best" player for more than a year or two, he did not pile up trophies - there's no trophy for assists, and last but certainly not least, he never won a Cup, which generational player never won the Cup, which generational player doesn't captain his team to the championship?
I do believe some people on this thread are a little disrespectful of his career (not a franchise player, really???), but I also think he just falls short of being generational.