Is this the deepest Rangers team we've had post-lockout?

[slipknottin]

Barring for an injury, Callahan should hit 50. Same for Richards. And Stepan.

Hagelin, Kreider, and Nash are debatable. But the former 3 are hitting 50 easy.

And in response from me, all you will get is a 'maybe'.

You cant predict seasons performance off 16 games. Just cant.

 

[Kakko]

And in response from me, all you will get is a 'maybe'.

You cant predict seasons performance off 16 games. Just cant.

but that's exactly what you did....

 

[slipknottin]

but that's exactly what you did....

Ive had that problem since I started this thread, made that point a couple times. Its extremely difficult to compare a team 16 games in vs, a team that went far into the playoffs.

The "on pace" thing is somewhat meaningless, because its just small sample size.

 

[JohnC]

Ive had that problem since I started this thread, made that point a couple times. Its extremely difficult to compare a team 16 games in vs, a team that went far into the playoffs.

The "on pace" thing is somewhat meaningless, because its just small sample size.

So are you just gonna ignore averages and trends?

 

[Jabroni]

I can't see how that 11-12 team was deeper than this Rangers' team. That team often in the season had 2 4th lines.

On paper and based on what we've seen, I can't say that this team's forwards are deeper than the 11-12 forwards.

Again, it's only been a handful of games, but when I compare the results from 11-12 to what I have seen as of now, I think we had better depth at forward in 11-12.

That team had a ton of chemistry and I believe that chemistry is a significant factor when determining depth. If everyone were playing like mercenaries, I'd consider our depth to be much worse since the cohesion wouldn't be there.

 

[jniklast]

On defense yes. On offense? Maybe going by names, but performance wise not (maybe yet).

 

[SnowblindNYR]

And they performed pretty well did they not?

Eh, that lack of offense is not what I'm looking for out of my 3rd line. Great 3rd line. That team had 2 4th lines.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

On paper and based on what we've seen, I can't say that this team's forwards are deeper than the 11-12 forwards.

Again, it's only been a handful of games, but when I compare the results from 11-12 to what I have seen as of now, I think we had better depth at forward in 11-12.

That team had a ton of chemistry and I believe that chemistry is a significant factor when determining depth. If everyone were playing like mercenaries, I'd consider our depth to be much worse since the cohesion wouldn't be there.

On paper, it's definitely better. We can end up with Nash on the 3rd line. Honestly, Prust and Feds shouldn't be on any team's 3rd line barring injuries. Also our #2 center this year (Richards) is definitely better than Stepan that year. I'd argue he's as good as he was that year, but he was our #1 center that year, now we have Stepan. I think you're confusing success and depth.

 

[slipknottin]

So are you just gonna ignore averages and trends?

No, but Im going to remain extremely skeptical of anything in small sample sizes.

 

[Thirty One]

Eh, that lack of offense is not what I'm looking for out of my 3rd line. Great 3rd line. That team had 2 4th lines.

I think their offensive performance was pretty impressive considering the defensive lifting they did. Boyle had the second most ESP for any player with <30% OffZoneSt% that year.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I think their offensive performance was pretty impressive considering the defensive lifting they did. Boyle had the second most ESP for any player with <30% OffZoneSt% that year.

Once you micromanage stats like that you can say whatever you want. Where was this depth in the playoffs (other than 3 games of Boyle)? Not that we know how ours will do in the playoffs or even if we're making them.

BTW, Boyle has been playing well this year too and will likely be a 4th liner instead of a 3rd liner when Nash comes back.

 

[Thirty One]

K, I'll try to stop micro-managing stats.

 

[Holocene]

On paper... yes. Our defense is definitely deeper than it was in 11-12 though and our offense looks to be deeper as well. We'll see how the rest of the year pans out though.

 

[MTrangers]

Which is why you dont rely on small sample size.

Because they've just played way above expectations so far...

 

[UAGoalieGuy]

You have to take into consideration the level guys were playing at then vs. now too. That absolutely is relevant to "depth". A Richards who is a 60 point player vs. a 20 point player makes your depth much weaker.

Gaborik was a 70+ point guy that season, Richards was a 60+ point guy. This year rangers will probably not have a guy hit 50.

Center depth was much better then with Richards + Step + Boyle + Anisimov + Mitchell.

Defense you could argue has a bit better depth now (Moore vs. Eminger/Bickel), but MDZ actually was very capable that year offensively.

Richards is on pace for 67. Stepan 62. Callahan 65. Hagelin 84 (that number is way scewed bcuz there is no chance he keeps up this pace). Kreider 57.

Now players like Kreider will probably not keep up his pace. But Callahan, Stephan and Richards (baring injury) should.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

The only way that you can make the mistake that this year's team is deeper than the 11-12 team is if you buy into the philosophy that your 3rd line needs to be offensively productive -- thats fine, 3rd lines can be a whole host of things -- the issue is that the current 3rd line is not all that productive. Guys like Pyatt, Miller, Pouliot? These are nothing players.

Say what you want about that "2 4th lines" stuff, but the 6 guys from the '11-12 team had a mandate, on a defensive team, to grind and wear the opposition down. They did a job - they contributed to the cause. Let me know when some of our 3rd liners start putting up points and then maybe we can have this conversation.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The only way that you can make the mistake that this year's team is deeper than the 11-12 team is if you buy into the philosophy that your 3rd line needs to be offensively productive -- thats fine, 3rd lines can be a whole host of things -- the issue is that the current 3rd line is not all that productive. Guys like Pyatt, Miller, Pouliot? These are nothing players.

Say what you want about that "2 4th lines" stuff, but the 6 guys from the '11-12 team had a mandate, on a defensive team, to grind and wear the opposition down. They did a job - they contributed to the cause. Let me know when some of our 3rd liners start putting up points and then maybe we can have this conversation.

Well, I admitted that Pouliot would be the weakest link as far as forwards. However, only one of those 3 guys will probably be on the 3rd line.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Well, I admitted that Pouliot would be the weakest link as far as forwards. However, only one of those 3 guys will probably be on the 3rd line.

We'll see. I just happen to think you're outsmarting yourself trying to project what might be. Until they get healthy and, more importantly, prove they can consistently churn out 3 productive offensive lines, they aren't the deepest team since the lockout.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

We'll see. I just happen to think you're outsmarting yourself trying to project what might be. Until they get healthy and, more importantly, prove they can consistently churn out 3 productive offensive lines, they aren't the deepest team since the lockout.

That's fair but this is a message board, projections are like 99% of what we do.

 

[bobbop]

I've felt all along that this team is deeper. There's the potential for 3 scoring lines and impressive depth once everyone gets back. I also like the close-in depth in the AHL. The defense (with <2 goals for the last nine games) is pretty impressive.
Stralman is becomign a very good player.

Sather's MO is a) letting his team stay toigther and only making in-season trades when neccesary and b) sometimes trading for talent. Based on his history I don't see changes coming. This is the team and based on the performance after 10 games (5-1) and the favorable upcoming schedule (11 of 12 at home after Thanksgiving) I expect it will stay that way.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I've felt all along that this team is deeper. There's the potential for 3 scoring lines and impressive depth once everyone gets back. I also like the close-in depth in the AHL. The defense (with >2 goals for the last nine games) is pretty impressive.
Stralman is becomign a very good player.

Sather's MO is a) letting his team stay toigther and only making in-season trades when neccesary and b) sometimes trading for talent. Based on his history I don't see changes coming. This is the team and based on the performance after 10 games (5-1) and the favorable upcoming schedule (11 of 12 at home after Thanksgiving) I expect it will stay that way.

What's with people not knowing the difference between ">" and "<". "<" means less than.

 

[bobbop]

What's with people not knowing the difference between ">" and "<". "<" means less than.

)blush(

I fixed it but not before you digned me.

Mea culpa.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

)blush(

I fixed it but not before you digned me.

Mea culpa.

It's just the 2nd time I saw that, lol.

 

[Jabroni]

On paper, it's definitely better. We can end up with Nash on the 3rd line. Honestly, Prust and Feds shouldn't be on any team's 3rd line foinjuries. Also our #2 center this year (Richards) is definitely better than Stepan that year. I'd argue he's as good as he was that year, but he was our #1 center that year, now we have Stepan. I think you're confusing success and depth.

I think success and depth go hand in hand.

Of your team is successful and the players have chemistry up and down the lineup, then I think that team is deep.

I do think this team is deep, but I'll give the upper hand to the 11-12 team for now based on their results, as they executed while we are only 16 games into this season.

By the end of the season, I hope this team ends up showing otherwise.

 

[Jabroni]

We'll see. I just happen to think you're outsmarting yourself trying to project what might be. Until they get healthy and, more importantly, prove they can consistently churn out 3 productive offensive lines, they aren't the deepest team since the lockout.

Exactly. The 11-12 team produced results.

That's why they have the upper hand in this discussion in my opinion.

It is too early to determine how deep this team is.