Is there a top seven now in international hockey?

[Lepardi]

You are doing better than the Russians in NHL this year for the first time ever I think, so definatly improvement.

Finns were also doing better than the Russians in the NHL in the 1980s, but you still have a good point. We should however also take into consideration that Finland doesn't have the likes of Nikita Gusev, Vadim Shipachyov and Pavel Datsyuk playing in Europe. Pretty sure Gusev and Shipachyov are better than most Finnish NHL players.

 

[moropanov]

Finns were also doing better than the Russians in the NHL in the 1980s, but you still have a good point. We should however also take into consideration that Finland doesn't have the likes of Nikita Gusev, Vadim Shipachyov and Pavel Datsyuk playing in Europe. Pretty sure Gusev and Shipachyov are better than most Finnish NHL players.

I dont think Shipacyov would make Finland's A roster atm from KHL Gusev is propably only one who would be taken Datsyuk is maybe amazing player some years ago but now he is so old and banged up he isnt higher level anymore than player like Filppula... KHLs top Russians after couple best ones are same level as players like Artturi Lehkonen or Joel Armia or Markus Granlund.

 

[ViD]

What young Russians make you rank them ahead of Canada?

Russia has the most medal of all countries in last 10 years

 

[ViD]

Finland's players have about equally good NHL stats this season as Russians in NHL if you make one roster for both 12 forwards 6 dman 2 goalies. Then Finnish forwards are typically better defensively or as a team players than Russians so i dont think there's player material difference between these two anymore. Russia has couple flashier names, but they are getting older and im pretty sure guys like Aho or Granlund would easily outplay names like Ovechkin or Kovalchuk at international level IIHF type of game bigger ice surface different play style and even rules...

dude, you got absolutely embarrassed at the last best on best tournament, then you have a couple medals at the WHC with the last gold being 2011. Hold your horses, Finland is not better than Russia by any means

 

[Lepardi]

dude, you got absolutely embarrassed at the last best on best tournament

Finland did perfectly well at the last best-on-best tournament in 2014. Beat Russia in the quarter-finals.

 

[Ducks76]

Russia and Finland is an interesting compairing. I think the russian Top 6(OF) are still better than the Finns. The Finns has better U25 players and defense players. For Russia is the question,who will become the next Ovi,Malkin,Datsyuk etc?.And KHL is for me a little bit overrated.

 

[ViD]

Finland did perfectly well at the last best-on-best tournament in 2014. Beat Russia in the quarter-finals.

Ahh, how convenient, so we don’t count the WCH if we play badly there

 

[Lepardi]

Ahh, how convenient, so we don’t count the WCH if we play badly there

I definitely take that tournament into account when comparing Finland and Russia but it wasn't a best-on-best tournament.

 

[moropanov]

WJC i would say is equally important tournament as yearly men's World Championships. Olympics without NHL is much behind those i would say Olympic gold without NHL is maybe as valuable as WJC or WHC bronze or so.. U 18 gold is also more valuable than without NHL played Olympic gold.

 

[NyQuil]

WJC i would say is equally important tournament as yearly men's World Championships. Olympics without NHL is much behind those i would say Olympic gold without NHL is maybe as valuable as WJC or WHC bronze or so.. U 18 gold is also more valuable than without NHL played Olympic gold.

Olympic gold without NHL is about as valuable as winning the Spengler Cup.

 

[LAINEC]

Finland is one of the best country in junior hockey. Lets wait couple years and they start to win gold metals in adults also. Funny thing Finland needs top goalies in future.

 

[Akustiikka]

I think the top countries means wich countries have a realistic chance of winning three playoff games in a row on best on best tournaments. Clearly Canada, USA, Sweden and Russia can do it. Finland is debatable. Finland was there early 2000s, but started to fall back about year 2010. They still managed to medal two olympics, but honestly winning gold was a long shot. You could see that especially in Vancouver olympics.

Now Finland is getting back up there, but are they there yet? Maybe, but in few years surely.

Edit: I would also like to add, that you have to have enough depth, that even if few of your best players are injured, you are still competitive.

 

[Ducks76]

For me valuable Tounaments:

1. Olympics(With NHL)
2. World Cup of Hockey(Without gimmick teams a good tournament)
3. WJC U20
4. WJCU18

Worth less(Particular Top-Nations)
1. Olympics without NHL-Players
2. IIHF WC

 

[NyQuil]

For me valuable Tounaments:

1. Olympics(With NHL)
2. World Cup of Hockey(Yes i know it debatable at time and gimmick Teams,but it is aBest on Best)
3. WJC U20
4. WJCU18

Worth less(Particular Top-Nations)
1. Olympics without NHL-Players
2. IIHF WC

I think the World Championships are worth more than the non-NHL Olympics.

At least there's some NHL participation.

I would demote the World Cup heavily unless it's the Canada Cup / World Cup format that existed until 2004.

It's on par with the non-NHL Olympics and the Spengler etc. because it's essentially an exhibition tournament.

How can it be "Best on Best" when 2 of the teams are handicapped by losing their best young players and one of the teams is a pointless and insulting hodge podge of players.

I get that you acknowledge this but in my mind it completely delegitimizes the tournament.

 

[Ducks76]

I think the World Championships are worth more than the non-NHL Olympics.

At least there's some NHL participation.

I would demote the World Cup heavily unless it's the Canada Cup / World Cup format that existed until 2004.

It's on par with the non-NHL Olympics and the Spengler etc. because it's essentially an exhibition tournament.

How can it be "Best on Best" when 2 of the teams are handicapped by losing their best young players and one of the teams is a pointless and insulting hodge podge of players.

I get that you acknowledge this but in my mind it completely delegitimizes the tournament.

When teams have minimum 90% of their best players,we could speak about worth tournament.

 

[NyQuil]

When teams have minimum 90% of their best players,we could speak about worth tournament.

Well, the US certainly didn't.

Most of their best talent was on the U-23 team:
-Auston Matthews
-Jack Eichel
-Dylan Larkin
-Johnny Gaudreau
-Seth Jones
-John Gibson
-Brandon Saad
-Jacob Trouba
-Shayne Gostisbehere

All of those guys probably should have been on the US team, even then.

 

[Ducks76]

Well, the US certainly didn't.

Most of their best talent was on the U-23 team:
-Auston Matthews
-Jack Eichel
-Dylan Larkin
-Johnny Gaudreau
-Seth Jones
-John Gibson
-Brandon Saad
-Jacob Trouba
-Shayne Gostisbehere

All of those guys probably should have been on the US team, even then.

Yes okay! 2016 are cancelled! !

 

[NyQuil]

Yes okay! 2016 are cancelled! !

Sorry, it just really annoyed me.

 

[garbageteam]

When teams have minimum 90% of their best players,we could speak about worth tournament.

Some teams during a best-on-best tournament don't even have 90% of their players due to injuries or personal circumstances... I mean you lose 3 out of your top 23 players and you're no longer at 90% available

The WHCs aren't that bad, most of the players in the tournament are NHLers and sometimes top nations get a few "A" team players, or even an entire unit could almost be the same as it would be in a best on best tournament, as Sweden's defensemen at the 2018 WHCs nearly were (which in no small part lead to their gold medal). Very, very few people in Canada cared about the World Cup in 2016; NHL fans I knew didn't know it happened and when they learned of the format, completely dismissed it.

Measuring how much Canadians care about international tournaments, my observations have been:

1. Olympics
2. WJCs
3. Proper World Cup without gimmicks
**massive gap**
4. WHCs (thanks in part to annual TSN coverage and promotion)
5. Olympic hockey without NHL players
6. Gimmick'd World Cup
7. U18 WJCs
8. Spengler Cup

 

[NyQuil]

1. Olympics
2. WJCs
3. Proper World Cup without gimmicks
**massive gap**
4. WHCs (thanks in part to annual TSN coverage and promotion)
5. Olympic hockey without NHL players
6. Gimmick'd World Cup
7. U18 WJCs
8. Spengler Cup

This is pretty much where I'm sitting.

The gap to me represents the gap between true competition and exhibition tournaments.

I enjoy many of the tournaments below that line (particularly the World Championships which I've attended a few times) but they are really more about the experience as opposed to the competition itself.

What I do like about the WHCs in particular is that the rosters change based on who is available.

On the one hand, it does lead to all kinds of "so and so is missing", but on the other hand, you get to see a wide variety of players on all kinds of different lines and defensive pairings that you wouldn't ordinarily see.

And I get that "best on best" is never truly 100% best on best because someone is injured or ill or whatever, but at least there is the potential for it unlike the other tournaments below that gap.

 

[Ducks76]

Some teams during a best-on-best tournament don't even have 90% of their players due to injuries or personal circumstances... I mean you lose 3 out of your top 23 players and you're no longer at 90% available

The WHCs aren't that bad, most of the players in the tournament are NHLers and sometimes top nations get a few "A" team players, or even an entire unit could almost be the same as it would be in a best on best tournament, as Sweden's defensemen at the 2018 WHCs nearly were (which in no small part lead to their gold medal). Very, very few people in Canada cared about the World Cup in 2016; NHL fans I knew didn't know it happened and when they learned of the format, completely dismissed it.

Measuring how much Canadians care about international tournaments, my observations have been:

1. Olympics
2. WJCs
3. Proper World Cup without gimmicks
**massive gap**
4. WHCs (thanks in part to annual TSN coverage and promotion)
5. Olympic hockey without NHL players
6. Gimmick'd World Cup
7. U18 WJCs
8. Spengler Cup

WHC are random generator!

 

[Lepardi]

2. WJCs
3. Proper World Cup without gimmicks

I find this hard to fathom. A teenagers' tournament where the absolute cream of the crop doesn't even take part ranks above a competition where countries assemble their A teams from grown men.

 

[Urbanskog]

I find this hard to fathom. A teenagers' tournament where the absolute cream of the crop doesn't even take part ranks above a competition where countries assemble their A teams from grown men.

The World Cup is not a legitimate, sanctioned event while the WJC is.

 

[Czechboy]

The WJC's are consistently missing the top players. Finland was missing 3 top guys. Canada was missing several as well. Czechs without Chytil. Didn't see Dahlin on Sweden. I guarantee I'm missing several other elite guys as well that didn't go.

 

[Lepardi]

The WJC's are consistently missing the top players. Finland was missing 3 top guys. Canada was missing several as well. Czechs without Chytil. Didn't see Dahlin on Sweden. I guarantee I'm missing several other elite guys as well that didn't go.

But the event was "sanctioned" by the corrupt IIHF bigwigs and thus "legitimate". Apparently that's more important than having the best players play for their countries.

Personally I don't care that much if it's Gary Bettman's, Rene Fasel's or Jacques Rogge's clique that organizes a hockey tournament. I just want to see the best players representing their nations.