Is there a narrative that the Capitals are sacrificing everything to get Ovechkin the Goal Record? Is there a double standard with regards to Crosby?

[SkinsFan09]

Their roster moves continuing to be okish and not really improving their team much in order to compete. They could easily strip the roster, still get Ovi his goals, and stock up pick/prospects targeting his retirement. Instead theyre in no mans land.

Through 8 games last year they were 4-3-1 with 19 GF and 26 GA and a roster age averaging over 30

This year they are 6-2 with 31 GF and 21 GA and a roster age average correctly trending downward under 28

Yes, the sample size is small but based on the data that is available to us, that looks like a lot more than "not much of an improvement"

Here is a list of players who give up more high-danger chances against in the NHL than Sidney Crosby:

Share the data please!

 

[Stealth1616]

Some people are trying so hard to trash Ovi it’s getting kinda funny. Guy is 39 and still making these people look silly.

Probably the same people who make the “Ovi sucks” thread year over year

 

[NVious]

With or without the record this caps team isn't great. Really makes no diff either way and this you could argue is the greatest record in sports, so yeah there's that.

 

[Blitzkrug]

Basically the question is in the title.

Do you believe (a) there is a narrative that Washington has sacrificed all team building for the sake of Ovechkin's legacy/pursuit of goal scoring record, (b) that this narrative has any merit, (c) that Pittsburgh has somehow escaped the same level of scrutiny with regards to the late stages of Crosby's career, (d) if there is a double standard, that this is somewhat warranted?

I believe the narrative and i believe there's merit. With or without the record being in play, Washington is staring a long rebuild in the face regardless and i would argue a lot of their moves don't really impact that long term outlook anyway so screw it, may as well get one last feather for the cap before it all goes to shit.

I don't believe Pittsburgh is escaping it though. Maybe last year they did since Karlsson still having new car smell kinda distracted everyone from the fact that team was a ticking timebomb. Fast forward to now and people are realizing that team is screwwwwwwwwwed

 

[Block]

With or without the record being in play, Washington is staring a long rebuild in the face regardless

Probably not. They need to figure out how to get an elite top line player and another top 4 D, but they have a solid lines 2-4 and a decent D.

 

[GordonGraham]

While helping Ovie Caps made the playoffs last year and are looking very good for this year only thing the Pens are sacrificing is a playoff spot

 

[EpochLink]

What

 

[Pablo El Perro]

Both teams could use some youth, Washington looks like they are getting it. The narrative on the capitals sacrificing everything wouldn't exist if Ovi didn't have a realistic chance at the goals record. The same isn't there with Sid

 

[benfranklin]

Through 8 games last year they were 4-3-1 with 19 GF and 26 GA and a roster age averaging over 30

This year they are 6-2 with 31 GF and 21 GA and a roster age average correctly trending downward under 28

Yes, the sample size is small but based on the data that is available to us, that looks like a lot more than "not much of an improvement"

They made the playoffs last year with a negative goal differential. Im not saying theyre garbage, but seems like theyre not trying to really go for it and are ok treading water until the Ovi record is done and he goes to Russia, then it complete rebuild time.

 

[SkinsFan09]

They made the playoffs last year with a negative goal differential. Im not saying theyre garbage, but seems like theyre not trying to really go for it and are ok treading water until the Ovi record is done and he goes to Russia, then it complete rebuild time.

Tearing everything down to suck for years doesn't guarantee you'll be a Cup contender at the end of it. Requires hitting on a ton of draft picks. There's a notion that this is the only way to compete for a championship in a sport where 8-seeds have won the Cup.

Just because they aren't selling the farm doesn't mean they aren't getting better. There's really only one "bad" contract on the team right now and they acquired it by getting out of another one so it wasn't a net addition. They're younger, developing that youthful talent, and have contract flexibility outside of PLD.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

They made the playoffs last year with a negative goal differential. Im not saying theyre garbage, but seems like theyre not trying to really go for it and are ok treading water until the Ovi record is done and he goes to Russia, then it complete rebuild time.

How do you explain that the most improved and reliable part of the roster is the defense?

How many teams in the East have a better set of 6 D than the Caps lineup of Carlson, Chychrun, Roy, Fehervary, Sandin and TVR?

They win most of their games through solid defense and goaltending. If the Caps were really only trying to go for the record, why would they have invested in improving the blue line instead of front loading the team with playmakers for Ovi?

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

No matter the rebuild, retool, re whatever… It doesn't really matter unless you win something.

I trust the process the Penguins deploy much more than what the Capitals have done. Penguin have had massive success rebuilding.

These two teams are in very different situations that for some reason get combined as if they are similar.

 

[Fantomas]

I trust the process the Penguins deploy much more than what the Capitals have done.

The only process they have a chance in hell implementing is sucking major donkey balls and lucking out into drafting Landon Dupont.

 

[mad4comp]

Their roster moves continuing to be okish and not really improving their team much in order to compete. They could easily strip the roster, still get Ovi his goals, and stock up pick/prospects targeting his retirement. Instead theyre in no mans land.

This is a total junk take.

They're top 10 in GF and GA.. i'd say that's a massive improvement. And their advanced stats show them running circles around other teams (including playoff teams). That's not an okayish improvement, that's almost contender status (albeit it's still early in the season and they still don't have their full compliment of D men playing).

And how are they in no mans land when they have a pretty good farm and a bunch of good young players? They've basically retooled on the fly pretty nicely and have set up for the future when OV retires.

 

[benfranklin]

How do you explain that the most improved and reliable part of the roster is the defense?

How many teams in the East have a better set of 6 D than the Caps lineup of Carlson, Chychrun, Roy, Fehervary, Sandin and TVR?

They win most of their games through solid defense and goaltending. If the Caps were really only trying to go for the record, why would they have invested in improving the blue line instead of front loading the team with playmakers for Ovi?

Panthers, Lightning, Senators, Sabres, Bruins, Devils, Rangers, Leafs, Hurricanes, Islanders and Blue Jackets. Penguins are arguable depending on our opinion of Karlsson currently. So potentially 80% of the conference.

I think they know they have a middle of the pack team and are treading water for now. They know its a long shot to make the playoffs so why waste resources.

This is a total junk take.

They're top 10 in GF and GA.. i'd say that's a massive improvement. And their advanced stats show them running circles around other teams (including playoff teams). That's not an okayish improvement, that's almost contender status (albeit it's still early in the season and they still don't have their full compliment of D men playing).

And how are they in no mans land when they have a pretty good farm and a bunch of good young players? They've basically retooled on the fly pretty nicely and have set up for the future when OV retires.

So what is the goal this year? Wild card at best? Likely miss and have a middle of the pack pick again. If it happens, no one is complaining, but lets not pretend that management went ham to make a real run at the Cup.

 

[mad4comp]

So what is the goal this year? Wild card at best? Likely miss and have a middle of the pack pick again. If it happens, no one is complaining, but lets not pretend that management went ham to make a real run at the Cup.

The same as it is every year for every team... to get into the playoffs...

Acquiring assets for a cup run happens at the TDL, not in the offseason.
Offseason acquisitions may or may not pan out.. sometimes teams that load up in the offseason still stink. Case in point.. Penguins 2023 offseason acquisitions.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Other than Caps fans, only obsessed hockey weirdos on this website and twitter actually give one single f*** what Leonisis and the Washington Capitals are doing.

waahhh they're not sucking on purpose
wahhhh wahhhh why wouldn't they just tank for draft picks Ovechkin is too old to win...
stfu with this bullshit

That's just not how you run a pro sports team. Loyalty and high standards for your organization aren't negatives.

 

[Deadpool8812]

I don't think people realize how lucky we were to watch both Ovechkin and Crosby's entire careers.

Probably the same for people that got to watch Gretzky and Lemieux's entire careers.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The only process they have a chance in hell implementing is sucking major donkey balls and lucking out into drafting Landon Dupont.

To be fair, sucking major donkey balls and lucking out into drafting generational talents is kind of our thing.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I believe the narrative and i believe there's merit. With or without the record being in play, Washington is staring a long rebuild in the face regardless...

Counterpoint: They aren't.

They're already swimming in young talent with McMichael, Protas, Leonard, Miroshnichenko, Crystal, and Lapierre. All first round draft picks (except Crystal who was 40 OA and leading the WHL in points with 16 points in 6 games). 3 of those guys aren't even in the NHL yet, but they absolutely will be.

In addition to that, they've got a bunch of players who are late 20s and who are playing quite well right now: Wilson, Strome, Luc-Dubois, Vrana, Chychrun, Mangiapane, Raddysh, Fehervary, etc. None of those guys are over 30.

Add in Roy and this is likely the best or second best blue line (after 2017 - Carlson, Orlov, Niskanen, Orpik) they've had over the past 20 years.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I trust the process the Penguins deploy much more than what the Capitals have done. Penguin have had massive success rebuilding.

Who in the Pens front office was even there when they tanked in 2003 or when they sucked in 1982?

If not personnel, does this process exist through geographical osmosis or something?

 

[zappa4ever]

"The Caps are old" narrative/misconception seems pretty widespread

the 30+'ers:
OV 39
Carlson 35
Dowd 34
TVR 33
McIlrath 32 (back to 7D when Matt Roy returns)
Lindgren 31
Wilson 30

 

[Fatass]

Basically the question is in the title.

Do you believe (a) there is a narrative that Washington has sacrificed all team building for the sake of Ovechkin's legacy/pursuit of goal scoring record, (b) that this narrative has any merit, (c) that Pittsburgh has somehow escaped the same level of scrutiny with regards to the late stages of Crosby's career, (d) if there is a double standard, that this is somewhat warranted?

What individual record is Crosby chasing? Crosby’s legacy will be about winning Cups. Not too sure your premise for discussion makes sense.

 

[AD1066]

No matter the rebuild, retool, re whatever… It doesn't really matter unless you win something.

I trust the process the Penguins deploy much more than what the Capitals have done. Penguin have had massive success rebuilding.

These two teams are in very different situations that for some reason get combined as if they are similar.

Are you talking about the current process or drafting Crosby and Malkin back-to-back almost 20 years ago? Because currently the Capitals are drafting well (Leonard, Cristall) and making more moves to remain competitive (Thompson, PLD, Mangiapane). Pens seem rudderless at the moment, unless they're banking on more lottery luck.

 

[SkinsFan09]

No matter the rebuild, retool, re whatever… It doesn't really matter unless you win something.

I trust the process the Penguins deploy much more than what the Capitals have done. Penguin have had massive success rebuilding.

These two teams are in very different situations that for some reason get combined as if they are similar.

The Penguins process isn't markedly better they just got lucky to get two all-time players in back to back drafts. And it's not like a Steph Curry/NBA situation where you go wow how did they know, they got the #1 and #2 overall pick and all-time no brainer talents were there.