Is there a narrative that the Capitals are sacrificing everything to get Ovechkin the Goal Record? Is there a double standard with regards to Crosby?

[Toby91ca]

I don't think people realize how lucky we were to watch both Ovechkin and Crosby's entire careers.

Probably the same for people that got to watch Gretzky and Lemieux's entire careers.

What about those of us that got to watch entire careers of all 4?

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Are you talking about the current process or drafting Crosby and Malkin back-to-back almost 20 years ago? Because currently the Capitals are drafting well (Leonard, Cristall) and making more moves to remain competitive (Thompson, PLD, Mangiapane). Pens seem rudderless at the moment, unless they're banking on more lottery luck.

And why can the Caps draft well? Because they didn't go as “all in” as the Penguins did and it shows in the results between the two teams.

Yes the Penguins should have kept ahold of picks and transitioned sooner but it is much easier to do with a team that won a lone Stanley Cup compared to a core of players that went to 4 and won 3.

Some people seem to think that the transition should have happened over night. Yeah in a perfect world def should have happened a couple of years ago.

Not overly surprising or mind shattering to see the FO f*** it up by a couple years.

The Penguins process isn't markedly better they just got lucky to get two all-time players in back to back drafts. And it's not like a Steph Curry/NBA situation where you go wow how did they know, they got the #1 and #2 overall pick and all-time no brainer talents were there.

I'm not saying their selections were made of some genius ability to recognize talent better than the rest of the league. I am stating that the process of tanking for grade A prospects seems to be the better move than a retooling on the fly.

 

[Toby91ca]

All first round draft picks (except Crystal who was 40 OA and leading the WHL in points with 16 points in 6 games). 3 of those guys aren't even in the NHL yet, but they absolutely will be.

I'm assuming you mean Cristall. He could very well turn out to be a great player, but I always discount great stats in Junior being put up by guys that in their 4th and 5th years there.....time will tell.

Because currently the Capitals are drafting well (Leonard, Cristall).

What is it about those picks where we can say they drafted well? Neither has played a second in the NHL.

 

[SkinsFan09]

I think they know they have a middle of the pack team and are treading water for now. They know its a long shot to make the playoffs so why waste resources.


So what is the goal this year? Wild card at best? Likely miss and have a middle of the pack pick again. If it happens, no one is complaining, but lets not pretend that management went ham to make a real run at the Cup.

There is no reason they cannot compete to be top 3 in the Metro. I don't think people appreciate how much the Oshie and Backstrom contracts, and Kuznetsov disaster were dragging their roster down.

Also brand new coaching staff and a first time NHL coach learning the ropes as they are reshaping the roster. Last year and this year are night and day.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I'm assuming you mean Cristall. He could very well turn out to be a great player, but I always discount great stats in Junior being put up by guys that in their 4th and 5th years there.....time will tell.

I do too, but in the NHL preseason he played really well. He's got slick hands and he's a very good passer of the puck. So for me it's more eye test than his ridiculous WHL stats.

There is no reason they cannot compete to be top 3 in the Metro. I don't think people appreciate how much the Oshie and Backstrom contracts, and Kuznetsov disaster were dragging their roster down.

It's pretty painful to say it because those guys are Capitals legends. None of them will ever have to buy beer in DC again. But yeah it was to a point where this was addition by subtraction. For Oshie and Backstrom it was just injuries - the kind that NOBODY can overcome.

 

[Sol]

The caps having the most prolific goal scorer in history to be a franchise long player is much greater than getting on the right path two years quicker

 

[benfranklin]

There is no reason they cannot compete to be top 3 in the Metro. I don't think people appreciate how much the Oshie and Backstrom contracts, and Kuznetsov disaster were dragging their roster down.

Also brand new coaching staff and a first time NHL coach learning the ropes as they are reshaping the roster. Last year and this year are night and day.

Anything can happen and therye still good enough to win games obviously. For me. I would want my team to either go for it or go for the lottery. Im not a fan of living in mediocrity and thats what I feel therye doing until Ovi leaves.

Injuries can happen and obviously they can sneak in like last season, but lets be honest, every team will hope they get them for an easy win. We saw it years ago with the Lightning/BJ's and the BJ's sold the farm to win a round and have been clawing back since and are still a lottery team.

IMO and could be wrong, but I feel the Rangers, Devils, and Hurricanes are way ahead of the Caps so its wild card or bust. More than likely theyll miss and get a 10-15 overall pick, but lets assume they make it again, have fun with the Rangers or Panthers.

As a fan, Id rather have a badass prospect than a round 1 disister.

 

[NYRfan85]

Nobody really expected the Caps to be anything great this year, so why not just chase the record, to have something exciting for the fans. The fact that they're playing pretty well is just a bonus.

Look at the playoffs last year, the Rangers kept Ovi off the scoresheet, and he pretty much was rendered useless, so at this point, as others have already mentioned, he's one-dimensional.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Anything can happen and therye still good enough to win games obviously. For me. I would want my team to either go for it or go for the lottery. Im not a fan of living in mediocrity and thats what I feel therye doing until Ovi leaves.

I agree 1000%. I just don't think they're settling for mediocrity or else they would have been much quieter this offseason. They have good flexibility still. Getting out of the Oshie and Backstrom contracts with LTIR until they officially retire has completely transformed the future of the team. Those were albatrosses that hamstrung the team into no man's land.

Lots of teams have bottomed out and built only to be pretty much exactly where the Capitals are now. It's not a guarantee that you will turn into a Cup contender by accepting last place for 5 years in a row.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Let the rebuild happen naturally , they aren't in no mans land , they will tank hard when all the old geezers go away soon , until then I like what they are doing , good asset management so far , they will have alot of flexibility moving forward

 

[qc14]

Anything can happen and therye still good enough to win games obviously. For me. I would want my team to either go for it or go for the lottery. Im not a fan of living in mediocrity and thats what I feel therye doing until Ovi leaves.

Injuries can happen and obviously they can sneak in like last season, but lets be honest, every team will hope they get them for an easy win. We saw it years ago with the Lightning/BJ's and the BJ's sold the farm to win a round and have been clawing back since and are still a lottery team.

IMO and could be wrong, but I feel the Rangers, Devils, and Hurricanes are way ahead of the Caps so its wild card or bust. More than likely theyll miss and get a 10-15 overall pick, but lets assume they make it again, have fun with the Rangers or Panthers.

As a fan, Id rather have a badass prospect than a round 1 disister.

Easy to say that when you're a Caps/Pens/Lightning/Bruins fan that's had nothing but success for 20 years. That win over the Lightning was Columbus' only series win in franchise history.

Chase a top pick and you'll end up like Buffalo or Columbus or Arizona/Utah. Teams should do everything in their power to hang on when they still can, you never know when your next opportunity is going to come.

Sports are about the journey and making the playoffs and watching a top 5 player in the history of the sport chase down what for a long time was thought of as an unbreakable record is so much more fun than "optimizing" a rebuild and watching my team purposefully ice an AHL roster.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Easy to say that when you're a Caps/Pens/Lightning/Bruins fan that's had nothing but success for 20 years. That win over the Lightning was Columbus' only series win in franchise history.

Chase a top pick and you'll end up like Buffalo or Columbus or Arizona/Utah. Teams should do everything in their power to hang on when they still can, you never know when your next opportunity is going to come.

Sports are about the journey and making the playoffs and watching a top 5 player in the history of the sport chase down what for a long time was thought of as an unbreakable record is so much more fun than "optimizing" a rebuild and watching my team purposefully ice an AHL roster.

I'm on board with tanking when you have no other option. If you are stuck in an okay roster situation with no flexibility to add young talent, you should just trade away for whatever you can and start over. But there's too many people who act like it's just a guarantee it'll turn you into a top contender when that is absolutely not the case.

Retooling is okay IF you are getting younger and adding players who can be part of the long-term. Re-tooling to add guys over 30 is a different story and pointless.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

I'm on board with tanking when you have no other option. If you are stuck in an okay roster situation with no flexibility to add young talent, you should just trade away for whatever you can and start over. But there's too many people who act like it's just a guarantee it'll turn you into a top contender when that is absolutely not the case.

Retooling is okay IF you are getting younger and adding players who can be part of the long-term. Re-tooling to add guys over 30 is a different story and pointless.

There's no guarantee you can turn into a top contender in either case. Both sides of the scenario can be true.

Teams can turn into the current Blackhawks or the current Wild teams. I see a brighter future with the Blackhawks and a much more exciting one I would argue.

 

[qc14]

There's no guarantee you can turn into a top contender in either case. Both sides of the scenario can be true.

Teams can turn into the current Blackhawks or the current Wild teams. I see a brighter future with the Blackhawks and a much more exciting one I would argue.

It's a lot easier to be bad on accident than good on purpose.

Bedard+Levshunov becoming just equal to Kaprizov+Faber would be considered a pretty good outcome for CHI. There's no guarantee that they pass what the Wild have been, and in the meantime their fans will have had at least 5 straight years of sickeningly bad hockey to watch.

 

[benfranklin]

I agree 1000%. I just don't think they're settling for mediocrity or else they would have been much quieter this offseason. They have good flexibility still. Getting out of the Oshie and Backstrom contracts with LTIR until they officially retire has completely transformed the future of the team. Those were albatrosses that hamstrung the team into no man's land.

Lots of teams have bottomed out and built only to be pretty much exactly where the Capitals are now. It's not a guarantee that you will turn into a Cup contender by accepting last place for 5 years in a row.

100%. Here is a list of teams who over the last 2 decades really went for it in terms of sucking. Most have paid off.

the LTIR is kindof my point with Ovi. The caps management is/was waiting to "get rid" of Ovi, Backs, Oshie, and Kuz before really trying again.

Carlson is only getting older. Chychrun is likely trade bait. No one thinks PLD is the answer to anything. Its a roster of meh and I love Ovi. Dude deserves his send off in style being the greatest goal scorer ever.


Penguins - 3 Cups
Blackhawks - 3 Cups
Oilers - lol
Avalanche - 1 Cup
Lightning - 2 Covid Cups
Leafs - lol
Sabres - lol
Habs - TBD
Sharks - TBD

 

[HTFN]

There's no guarantee you can turn into a top contender in either case. Both sides of the scenario can be true.

Teams can turn into the current Blackhawks or the current Wild teams. I see a brighter future with the Blackhawks and a much more exciting one I would argue.

What you’re losing in all of this is salary cap. It’s fine to say Minnesota is an example of middling results over a long term… they’re also about to drop something like 13 million in dead cap space next year. Do you want to be the Blackhawks signing dusty veterans to round out a lottery team because they’ve got Bedard or the Wild with Kaprizov and co. and millions to round out the roster?

I’m not seeing how the Capitals, at this stage, will be doomed to mediocrity when they’re working off of a good structure and improving as-is. As for the post-Ovechkin era (and let’s fold Carlson in there too) it’s easy to factor in losing the players, but important to remember how flexible that makes them. That’s a bit over 17 million off the books, presumably by losing guys who no longer serve as NHL players.

depending on results you’re still talking about a team with some serious flexibility here. They’ve got arguably at least 2-4 quality newcomers in the next 2-3 years. Leonard, Cristall, and Miro should all comfortably see time at the very least, I won’t do a fan breakdown on prospects but these are very visibly NHL players to whatever extent. They only have a handful of long term contracts (Strome is already a bargain, Protas may join that group, Dubois and Roy arguably the only true question marks) as they exit the Ovechkin/Carlson deals….

Isn’t this just what a tear down rebuild would look like as it grows up anyway? Multiple intriguing prospects on the way, conservative cap situation, waiting to make the right moves or pay the right players… what do they need?

People love to talk about how you need high overall draft picks and then ignore the fact that Boston has been a thorn in everybody’s side for at least a decade. I’d take being Boston.

 

[qc14]

Penguins - So bad they were a week away from moving the team
Blackhawks - didn't try to tank during the Kane/Toews years
Oilers - never tried to tank
Avalanche - were bad for 1 year before MacKinnon, never tried to tank (and won the President's trophy the year after picking him!)
Lightning - made the playoffs (and had a cup win) 4 straight years before drafting Stamkos, best player on most recent two cup wins was a 2nd round pick
Leafs - have won one playoff series in 20 years
Sabres - longest playoff drought among big 5 sports leagues
Habs - TBD
Sharks - TBD

I'll give you the Penguins as the one "successful" tear-it-down rebuild story and that rebuild was literally a week away from costing the city the franchise

 

[HTFN]

100%. Here is a list of teams who over the last 2 decades really went for it in terms of sucking. Most have paid off.

the LTIR is kindof my point with Ovi. The caps management is/was waiting to "get rid" of Ovi, Backs, Oshie, and Kuz before really trying again.

Carlson is only getting older. Chychrun is likely trade bait. No one thinks PLD is the answer to anything. Its a roster of meh and I love Ovi. Dude deserves his send off in style being the greatest goal scorer ever.


Penguins - 3 Cups
Blackhawks - 3 Cups
Oilers - lol
Avalanche - 1 Cup
Lightning - 2 Covid Cups
Leafs - lol
Sabres - lol
Habs - TBD
Sharks - TBD

… most succeeded by what metric? Even cherry picking over two decades that’s only 9 cups (less than 50%, not a majority) and then among the list of 9 teams you’ve given you have “lol” written three times and TBD on two of them. That is, again, not a majority.

Genuinely, what are you talking about? When you can leave a team like the LA Kings and their cups off the list you should already know you don’t have a grasp on the point you’re trying to make.

 

[SkinsFan09]

100%. Here is a list of teams who over the last 2 decades really went for it in terms of sucking. Most have paid off.

the LTIR is kindof my point with Ovi. The caps management is/was waiting to "get rid" of Ovi, Backs, Oshie, and Kuz before really trying again.

Carlson is only getting older. Chychrun is likely trade bait. No one thinks PLD is the answer to anything. Its a roster of meh and I love Ovi. Dude deserves his send off in style being the greatest goal scorer ever.


Penguins - 3 Cups
Blackhawks - 3 Cups
Oilers - lol
Avalanche - 1 Cup
Lightning - 2 Covid Cups
Leafs - lol
Sabres - lol
Habs - TBD
Sharks - TBD

There's more failures on that list than successes and Detroit would be another, tank to get to where the Capitals are now, not to become a legit Cup contender. Now, of course Washington tanked successfully in the mid-2000s to set up the Ovechkin era so I'm not a "never do it" guy.

I disagree it's a meh roster, I think it's a good but not great roster. But it's also one that will get better when Ryan Leonard and others enter the league. And it's possible Carberry has unlocked Protas and McMichael in a way that Laviolette could not as a veteran-obsessed coach.

Time will tell but last year's team was a transition to their youth era post-Laviolette and has no bearing on their future. Had they kept Lavi and stayed pat with their aging vets instead of correctly getting younger while drafting well in the background, I would be laughing at them too.

 

[BallardEra]

Pens are allowing the most shots against per game at 35.5 while the Caps are allowing the least at 25.1

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

Pens are allowing the most shots against per game at 35.5 while the Caps are allowing the least at 25.1

Why is this relevant in this thread?

 

[Perfect_Drug]

The funny part about this thread, is that the Caps are throwing everything at getting OV that goal record.

The unfortunate byproduct is that they're winning games and in a playoff spot.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Find you a girl whose eyes light up the same way Ov's does when he sees an empty net.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Find you a girl whose eyes light up the same way Ov's does when he sees an empty net.

That would be Sidney Crosby who lead the league with 7 empty net goals last year and is No. 2 all-time in empty net points in NHL history.

 

[HTFN]

Find you a girl whose eyes light up the same way Ov's does when he sees an empty net.

Find a player who doesn’t want to seal a win and cut him