Is there a narrative that the Capitals are sacrificing everything to get Ovechkin the Goal Record? Is there a double standard with regards to Crosby?

[Golden_Jet]

Impeccable timing waiting until they win another one.

If the Caps make the playoffs and do any sort of damage I’ll be the first to eat my words. But until then, if you think these guys stand any sort of chance then I think you should be the one considering watching any game other than the Caps. Thanks.

lol ,no, you just seem angry and wrong, caps are playing well, if any team should of went into a rebuild of the 2, it’s Pittsburgh.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

I wonder if fans of these teams are simply happy to celebrate these great players in their twilight years. Perhaps they would rather have it this way than collecting picks and seeing Crosby in Vegas and Ovechkin in Tampa.

 

[bleedgreen]

The Caps owner said years ago that was the priority didn’t he? I don’t think any other owner or team would’ve gotten Ovy the award, it should be a Caps team award by the time he gets it. Crosby was flat out amazing last year and still makes all the team oriented contributions he always has. The difference in their games is obvious enough to refute the OP argument. Crosby has more value game to game even if he is slowly going downhill. Ovy looks like a keg in a t shirt. His job for a decade has been to cruise the left side waiting for a pass or loose puck and that’s it.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Do you think they were better or worse than ovechkin?

As a goal scorer, Ovechkin has been A LOT better than Gretzky at an advanced age.

Gretzky’s final 30-goal season came at age 33. After that season he scored 91 goals.

After that same age, Ovechkin had seasons of 50, 48, 42, 31, and 24. And the 24 goal season was the COVID stoppage… he actually paced for 44 that year. In total he scored 199 to Gretzky’s 91.

Do you think he was afforded the same opportunities or not? Otherwise your comment is irrelevant.

Ovechkin has been a superior goal scorer to Gretzky, full stop. If you want to talk about opportunity, the reason he hasn’t already blown past the record is because he missed two full seasons to labor stoppages and COVID, and played in a far lower-scoring era with far less team support. He’d be pushing 1000 goals by now if their opportunities were equal.

 

[NatusVincere]

I don’t think any other owner or team would’ve gotten Ovy the award, it should be a Caps team award by the time he gets it.

I don’t think any other owner or team had a player which even came close to a major Gretzky record let alone a realistic chance of breaking it. Toronto would make a deal with the devil and suck for another half century to get Matthews the goal scoring record… if he ever gets at least to 800.

 

[Hivemind]

Crosby is a better and far more complete player at this point. He's good enough that his play stops his team from tanking. So you either trade him or build some kind of team around him.

Ovechkin is extremely one dimensional at this point. The Caps aren't really doing what's in the best of interest of winning either. Honestly, I were the Caps, I'd kill two birds with one stone. Go full tank except for an Ovy led powerplay with a bunch of PP specialists. Ovy gets his record. The Caps get the rebuild.

You can just admit you haven't watched either team this year. That's fine.

 

[trick9]

Crosby is a better and far more complete player at this point. He's good enough that his play stops his team from tanking. So you either trade him or build some kind of team around him.

Ovechkin is extremely one dimensional at this point. The Caps aren't really doing what's in the best of interest of winning either. Honestly, I were the Caps, I'd kill two birds with one stone. Go full tank except for an Ovy led powerplay with a bunch of PP specialists. Ovy gets his record. The Caps get the rebuild.

Here is a list of players who give up more high-danger chances against in the NHL than Sidney Crosby:

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

This comment is defied by the preponderance of Stanley Cup wins for teams led by players that those teams drafted in the top three picks. Staal, Crosby & Malkin, Ovechkin, Toews & Kane, Doughty, Hedman & Stamkos, Mackinnon (& Makar, if I extended the criteria out to top four picks), Barkov-- their teams nearly run the championships table in the salary cap era.

Teams tank because it's the best chance to get elite talent, which is the most important factor for future success.

Also Ekblad.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Interesting. So you think that Ovi breaking a record without context means something but Greyzky’s record itself doesn’t?


Do you think they were better or worse than ovechkin? Do you think he was afforded the same opportunities or not? Otherwise your comment is irrelevant.

I think he was afforded other opportunities which made it easier. I think the fact that scores were much higher made it easier for goal scorers to score. So if his points weren’t artificially raised the way you are suggesting Ovi’s are, they were still raised by the lack of d.
I think ovi’s scoring needs context, but so does Gretzky’s and since there is no asterisk’s breaking down what was going on in the nhl at the time and all we are left with is a number that historically it won’t matter the context. It doesn’t mean the context doesn’t matter, but, that in the end all you have is a number. Not a number broken into empty net goals etc.

Therefore offsetting opportunities. Gretzky is still better as it’s not his only record. Gretzky also has the assists record. Which once again needs to be contextualized, higher scoring nhl, but, no one else has come close enough that they could create an opportunity for a modern player to break it.

I thought your initial post only looked at one advantage instead of the many they both had and weighed them against each other, by pointing at the one advantage meaningless games team try to feed him the record as the only one.

 

[Kalopsia]

Crap management is not seeing reality. And as with the Pens and Caps, when you have legacies to preserve instead of doing the rational thing, your future rebuild will be very long and those buildings will be very empty at the end of this decade. By then, management will have been turned over and the franchise probably sold - it'll be someone else's problem.

But this is a league that is won by the talent at the top of the draft. You know this first hand. And this Caps team is not winning anything any time soon. They're retooling for a record and not much else.

I'm curious what you think the Caps have done recently that's going to lengthen a hypothetical rebuild when Ovie retires?

 

[wetcoast]

It’s “asking questions” as to whether a narrative exists.

Since you commented, do you think such narrative exists?

You are just asking question but put it in an all or nothing context and of course there is some truth to the narrative that the capitals are all in on the goal scoring record as the owner himself said so and the TOI/PP usage and late career ENG situational play also supports this narrative.

Basically the question is in the title.

Do you believe (a) there is a narrative that Washington has sacrificed all team building for the sake of Ovechkin's legacy/pursuit of goal scoring record, (b) that this narrative has any merit, (c) that Pittsburgh has somehow escaped the same level of scrutiny with regards to the late stages of Crosby's career, (d) if there is a double standard, that this is somewhat warranted?

When Crosby gets to the same level of play then we can see but I doubt it as there isn't some numerical record to chase.

 

[BallardEra]

Both guys have been regressing and will continue to do so despite what either side says.

 

[CDN24]

If anything the caps have been trying to retool on the fly and get younger without doing a scorched earth rebuild while Pens continue to trade away futures to win now for the most part. Since the Caps won the cup in 2018 there have been 7 drafts.
Caps have drafted in 1st round 6 times only the 2021 1st rounder was traded to det in Anthony Mantha deal. They also made 8 2nd rd picks and 7 in the 3rd
Pens have drafted in 1st round only 3 times in that period. and 6 times in the 2nd 3 in the 3rd.

Caps have not been sacrificing the future to get OVI the record.

 

[Rodgerwilco]

A) Yes, I think there is that narrative.

B) I dislike the Caps as much as any Pens fan, but I don't get the narrative that they're sacrificing anything to get Ovi the record. Their team looks in fairly good shape and they've got a good combo of young guys and more experienced players.

C) Doesn't make any sense at all, considering the Penguins management is actively ruining the end of Crosby's career with incompetent management and coaching...

D) I don't think there's a "double standard" at all, because of the above statement.

 

[SkinsFan09]

To answer OP's question, I think there is a small narrative around this idea, specifically with regards to them feeding him for empty nets at all costs. It seems amplified on these boards to the degree that people think that the capitals are throwing games in order to force feed OV, and there seems to be a notion that he wouldn't be on one of the top scoring lines anywhere else besides the capitals. There is absolutely no merit to this narrative. Crosby doesn't seem to be facing the same scrutiny on these boards or elsewhere, so I won't comment on that.

It's funny because Crosby led the NHL in empty net goals last year and is No. 2 to Gretzky in empty net points all-time but for him it's fine. (To be clear, I have zero issue with anyone getting empty net goals or points - if they're there for Sid, he should take them)

The Capitals are correctly retooling - going into 2022-23 the average age of the roster was over 30. This year, it's under 28. Moving to a coach like Carberry was also the right move to develop young players for the future, which Laviolette is just not good at.

 

[stephenball]

I mean, absolutely the Penguins are more in need of a full rebuild than the Caps. They mortgaged future capital more, so they have a lot less in the pipeline at the end of this era. But it worked out because they won more cups.

The Capitals aren’t in desperate need of a full rebuild. I’m not going to sit here and say they should be massively competing for cups in the next few years, but there’s a lot of promising talent already making an impact and coming in soon. We’ll have to see how it shakes out, but I’m not too worried about years of hell, I think they’ve set us up fairly well for the future.

But as to the claims that the Caps only care about Ovechkin’s record chase, I think that’s a ridiculous claim. People act like they traded four first round picks for Mitch Marner or something.