Is there a narrative that the Capitals are sacrificing everything to get Ovechkin the Goal Record? Is there a double standard with regards to Crosby?

[BallardEra]

Still don't think he gets the record. He'll be 20 or so short heading into his final year in the NHL as a 40 year old just hanging on.

Only if he gets hurt this season for a good amount of games.

He’ll be inside of 10 goals by the end of this season if he plays his usual amount of games.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Basically the question is in the title.

Do you believe (a) there is a narrative that Washington has sacrificed all team building for the sake of Ovechkin's legacy/pursuit of goal scoring record, (b) that this narrative has any merit, (c) that Pittsburgh has somehow escaped the same level of scrutiny with regards to the late stages of Crosby's career, (d) if there is a double standard, that this is somewhat warranted?

As someone who is quite familiar with the ownership group of the Caps. The goal record is their focus before the rebuild happens. They know that they'll need to tear down.

Pittsburgh should also be rebuilding, but they are kind of stuck on the treadmill. The Karlsson trade did not help them and they are hanging on in the hopes that someonehow they can make one more run this year.

They'll need to turn over soon and Crosby is in a similar situation as Steph Curry where the team is hamstrung with contracts and cannot make the necessary moves because the roster isn't good enough.

The question is whether Crosby wants to retire as a Penguin or if he request a move to a contender to go for a final cup.

Pittsburgh cannot move forward until they move on from Crosby one way or another.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

I don’t mean to comment negatively on the state of the Penguins, but the Caps are clearly the more competitive of the two teams at this point.

They stayed true to their word and could not only retool the team quickly to push for the playoffs but also put Ovi in a position where he can succeed and break the record people thought was unbreakable.

 

[AlexModvechkin8]

Still waiting for someone to explain to me how tearing the team down and putting bad players around Ovi helps him get the record more so than the Caps trying to retool and compete.

 

[Ovie's Neighbor]

Fans are not going to show up if they suck, even if OV record is on the line. They need to be at least competitive which is what they have been. Ownership has been playing it right from a business perspective.

 

[Ghost of Murph]

Still waiting for someone to explain to me how tearing the team down and putting bad players around Ovi helps him get the record more so than the Caps trying to retool and compete.

Exactly. People are rebuild happy. Rebuilds are risky to begin with, take a lot of time, and can hemorrhage money in terms of decreased fan support.

The Caps have played things smart and as people are now beginning to see it is a very good team. There's a reason certain teams make the playoffs more years than not over a long period. Good management is avoiding lengthy rebuilds. Crap management leads to the need for a lengthy rebuild. Washington has had very competent management.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Yes of course they’re doing that, and it’s a horrible look. Getting the goal record because your team sacrificed their own well-being is not an opportunity Gretzky had and a really bad look for the “greatest goal scorer” ever. It will put a stain on his legacy if he limps into the record like that.

Gretzky’s last few years weren’t always a great look either. People will forget the details, what matters is the final score.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

This comment is defied by the preponderance of Stanley Cup wins for teams led by players that those teams drafted in the top three picks. Staal, Crosby & Malkin, Ovechkin, Toews & Kane, Doughty, Hedman & Stamkos, Mackinnon (& Makar, if I extended the criteria out to top four picks), Barkov-- their teams nearly run the championships table in the salary cap era.

Only a couple of those teams actually tanked. Most of those examples are exaggerated, like saying Stamkos led the Bolts to their dominance instead of Kucherov, or Doughty being the key to the Kings when it was clearly a mixture of him and Quick/Kopitar, mostly the latter.

Teams tank because it's the best chance to get elite talent, which is the most important factor for future success.

Teams tank and have varying levels of success with it. Edmonton had to do it a few times before it worked out, and it really delayed their window. Buffalo tanked in the McDavid year for Eichel, and that hasn't worked out very well for them. There are a lot more teams that tank and it doesn't work out than teams that tank and it does work out.

 

[Oneiro]

Exactly. People are rebuild happy. Rebuilds are risky to begin with, take a lot of time, and can hemorrhage money in terms of decreased fan support.

The Caps have played things smart and as people are now beginning to see it is a very good team. There's a reason certain teams make the playoffs more years than not over a long period. Good management is avoiding lengthy rebuilds. Crap management leads to the need for a lengthy rebuild. Washington has had very competent management.

Crap management is not seeing reality. And as with the Pens and Caps, when you have legacies to preserve instead of doing the rational thing, your future rebuild will be very long and those buildings will be very empty at the end of this decade. By then, management will have been turned over and the franchise probably sold - it'll be someone else's problem.

But this is a league that is won by the talent at the top of the draft. You know this first hand. And this Caps team is not winning anything any time soon. They're retooling for a record and not much else.

 

[um]

Crap management is not seeing reality. And as with the Pens and Caps, when you have legacies to preserve instead of doing the rational thing, your future rebuild will be very long and those buildings will be very empty at the end of this decade. By then, management will have been turned over and the franchise probably sold - it'll be someone else's problem.

But this is a league that is won by the talent at the top of the draft. You know this first hand. And this Caps team is not winning anything any time soon. They're retooling for a record and not much else.

At least the haters call it a retooling now.

 

[Nogatco Rd]

Crap management is not seeing reality. And as with the Pens and Caps, when you have legacies to preserve instead of doing the rational thing, your future rebuild will be very long and those buildings will be very empty at the end of this decade. By then, management will have been turned over and the franchise probably sold - it'll be someone else's problem.

But this is a league that is won by the talent at the top of the draft. You know this first hand. And this Caps team is not winning anything any time soon. They're retooling for a record and not much else.

Worst comes to worst they have a bunch of assets they can turn into futures if they decide to tear it down to the studs when ovi retires? I fail to see how waiting another 2 years before rebuilding is causing any long term damage to the franchise.

Are you under the impression they’re trading away a bunch of high picks at the TDL? They’ve been sellers the last two years.

 

[pezpunk]

Crosby is a better and far more complete player at this point. He's good enough that his play stops his team from tanking. So you either trade him or build some kind of team around him.

Ovechkin is extremely one dimensional at this point. The Caps aren't really doing what's in the best of interest of winning either. Honestly, I were the Caps, I'd kill two birds with one stone. Go full tank except for an Ovy led powerplay with a bunch of PP specialists. Ovy gets his record. The Caps get the rebuild.

i mean yeah that's the NARRATIVE.

the utterly false completely untrue narrative.

the caps are a very good team this year, and Ovi is still great. but keep parroting the ignorant canadian media storylines, nobody can stop you.

They should likely be rebuilding as they really have no shot at winning for starters. Even if you don’t think they should rebuild, Ovi should not be on the top line and should not be double shifting on the PP as he’s just not that player anymore.

Look, I don’t blame the Caps at all for doing this. But as a competitor and one of the best all time, I think it’s a bad look for Ovi. He should be getting the record because he deserves it, not because he’s afforded opportunities other players have not gotten.

This is just so insanely out of touch with reality. The caps haven't been trading away ddraft picks the last two years. they've been aquiring them.

and yes of course their top goal scorer should be on their top line. what a goofy post.

 

[Blue and Green]

Only a couple of those teams actually tanked. Most of those examples are exaggerated, like saying Stamkos led the Bolts to their dominance instead of Kucherov, or Doughty being the key to the Kings when it was clearly a mixture of him and Quick/Kopitar, mostly the latter.

Teams tank and have varying levels of success with it. Edmonton had to do it a few times before it worked out, and it really delayed their window. Buffalo tanked in the McDavid year for Eichel, and that hasn't worked out very well for them. There are a lot more teams that tank and it doesn't work out than teams that tank and it does work out.

Nothing works perfectly, but tanking works better than sitting in the mediocre range. Nobody can deny the fact that teams who drafted one or two excellent players with a very early pick have absolutely dominated the Stanley Cup champions list.

 

[Holtbyisms]

Except that the caps are a far superior team currently and their prospect pipeline is superior. These two are not alike currently.

 

[Madap]

Gretzky got lots of opportunities and challenges . In those days forwards played more minutes played less D, scoring was easier because of goalie equipment. Wooden stick. Comparing records without context seems ridiculous. If a team tried to feed to break a record it just shows how ridiculous records are.

Interesting. So you think that Ovi breaking a record without context means something but Greyzky’s record itself doesn’t?

Gretzky’s last few years weren’t always a great look either. People will forget the details, what matters is the final score.

Do you think they were better or worse than ovechkin? Do you think he was afforded the same opportunities or not? Otherwise your comment is irrelevant.

 

[Fantomas]

As someone who is quite familiar with the ownership group of the Caps. The goal record is their focus before the rebuild happens. They know that they'll need to tear down.

Uh, this is BS. They have good young players and prospects, I don't see how any sort of teardown is in the cards.

They should likely be rebuilding as they really have no shot at winning for starters. Even if you don’t think they should rebuild, Ovi should not be on the top line and should not be double shifting on the PP as he’s just not that player anymore.

Look, I don’t blame the Caps at all for doing this. But as a competitor and one of the best all time, I think it’s a bad look for Ovi. He should be getting the record because he deserves it, not because he’s afforded opportunities other players have not gotten.

The Caps are 6-2 and Ovy has four goals. What's with some people talking out of their derriere?

The Caps have managed things brilliantly the past couple of years and they have a pretty good looking team out there. Please consider watching one or two of the games before spouting off. Thanks.

 

[Madap]

Uh, this is BS. They have good young players and prospects, I don't see how any sort of teardown is in the cards.



The Caps are 6-2 and Ovy has four goals. What's with some people talking out of their derriere?

The Caps have managed things brilliantly the past couple of years and they have a pretty good looking team out there. Please consider watching one or two of the games before spouting off. Thanks.

Impeccable timing waiting until they win another one.

If the Caps make the playoffs and do any sort of damage I’ll be the first to eat my words. But until then, if you think these guys stand any sort of chance then I think you should be the one considering watching any game other than the Caps. Thanks.

 

[Fantomas]

Impeccable timing waiting until they win another one.

If the Caps make the playoffs and do any sort of damage I’ll be the first to eat my words. But until then, if you think these guys stand any sort of chance then I think you should be the one considering watching any game other than the Caps. Thanks.

Don't shift the goalposts. There's no rebuild/teardown happening and the team is in good condition. Even if they don't make the playoffs (which they certainly could do), there will be no rebuild.

You do a rebuild when you're in a situation like the Pens. Not like the Caps who have a good thing going and strong prospects in the pipeline.

 

[Klargplutte]

Yes there is a bullshit narrative going on in an attempt to smear Ovies incoming scoring record , "they sacrificed everything for Ovie getting that record , so lets put an asterix on it". I guess some people just cant handle that some players wont go down as the greatest at anything in the history books

 

[trick9]

Capitals sacrificing everything to get Ovechkin the record is literally the dumbest argument there has been in the last few years and it's only really driven by the Canadian media that doesn't follow this team at all. Like, you could tell any time you watched a Canadian feed last season that they were driving that agenda which is just complete bullshit.

Why should they have rebuild? They made the Playoffs last season. Only briefly but most teams and their owners aren't rebuild-happy like the fans. Tanking has already screwed few franchises who are now lost in the cycle of being the poor old losers.

Also only getting Ovechkin to the record? They literally played ultra-defensive hockey last season because they didn't have offensive tools. That's how they made the Playoffs. If you are trying to get your top players goals wouldn't you play offensive hockey to make that happen? Capitals didn't do that because they would have lost most of those games because the weapons just weren't there.

 

[Oddbob]

Basically the question is in the title.

Do you believe (a) there is a narrative that Washington has sacrificed all team building for the sake of Ovechkin's legacy/pursuit of goal scoring record, (b) that this narrative has any merit, (c) that Pittsburgh has somehow escaped the same level of scrutiny with regards to the late stages of Crosby's career, (d) if there is a double standard, that this is somewhat warranted?

I think if he wasn't chasing the goal record they would be less concerned with adding any vet players, and possibly Ovy might retire sooner. Crosby isn't chasing any records, other than just moving up the points list.

If I am either team, I try to keep making the playoffs until they retire. Neither of the two is getting traded, so why waste their final years rebuilding, when that will happen soon enough anyways.

 

[gtrower]

Yeah this is the funniest thing from the past few years. Pens fans created this hypothetical narrative that Ovi had turned into this defensive drain that was only chasing records - to the detriment of the team - and the Caps would delay a rebuild to keep him scoring despite the team being old and terrible.

Fast forward 2 years and the Caps have been sellers at the TDL, unloaded a lot of inflated contracts, still made the playoffs despite being sellers, and are looking decent again already.

Meanwhile Crosby has been one of the worst defensive forwards in the league the last few years and the Pens missed the playoffs last year and look worse this year. And now they’re reportedly putting Malkin on his line to pump his stats.

Pens fans willed their narrative into existence…but for the wrong player/team.

 

[BallardEra]

Pens now have the worst GAA and most shots allowed per game.

I can't see Sullivan lasting more than 20 games.

 

[villacco]

I was always more of a Pens Fan.
3 years ago I thought WSH and PIT would be the worst teams in like 2026 or 2027
Boy I was wrong about WSH. They are rebuilding really nicely with all those young players and still have the way better prospect pool. I really like the way they play. Though they are feeding Ovi on PP I see no problem with it and their 5 vs 5 game is very nice. It ist great to have great veterans like Ovi and Carlsson leading the way helping young guys.
The Pens on the other still have not talented kids in their line-up (where is McGroarty?) and they play like shit. Pathetic. In 3 years they will be dead last in the NHL. Maybe they get their next super stars via draft

 

[GaboriklessWild]

Washington is making the right trades and trying to get players who are still in their prime, while Pittsburgh is trying to build the oldest team around Crosby and Malkin.

Surely only the trolls are angry about the Capitals' recent deals. If Ovechkin breaks the record it will be a massive bragging right for the whole franchise. Their fans are happy to see a historic moment. The owner is rubbing his hands about how high he can raise the ticket price when Ovechkin gets close to the record. As ratings drop, the league is also happy because it makes the news and at least there's something to talk about.

Washington has shown great loyalty to its players. They signed Backstrom to a massive contract when his body started to fall apart to compensate him for being underpaid for the previous 10 years. Backstrom even fired his agent, certainly the owner assured him that contract negotiations would be conducted in good faith.

While Pittsburgh tried massively lowballing Malkin. It required Crosby to step in and talk to the executives and say "hey guys, stop doing the clown show here, get this deal done". Even $6.1 million/year is an insult from Malkin's perspective. The guy has shown a high level of loyalty over almost two decades. He could have easily said early on in his career, "okay guys, we won a cup, now I want to get out of here and play for a team that is built around me, it would help my career & my fame and I could make more money". But he stayed (in Crosby's shadow) and helped win 2 more Cups.