Is the Golden Knights' problem Jack Eichel?

[VivaLasVegas]

Eichel isn't a problem in himself. Maybe a better question is....is he the answer? And that depends on what question you are asking.
If you are asking: Is he a player that can put up points at a top 25 level and look good doing it? The answer is yes.
If you are asking: Is he a dominant player that can carry a team on his back to 'the next level'? Then the answer to that, he has shown, is no.

-Eichel misses games, he is not an 'ironman'. That is true for a lot of players. But since his Debut in the NHL, he has missed well over 100 possible games played due to injury. Many because of his neck, but he's had a couple other stints with various other injuries.
-Since he has been with Vegas, he is tied for 62nd in the league in points per game.
-This year he tied for 23rd in the league in points per game.
-Since his rookie year debut, he is 26th in the league in points per game.
-Never broke the 90 point mark in any one season, never broke 40 goals.
-His BEST season ever, where early some Buffalo Fans wanted him considered for MVP, Was 2019-2020. He finished 12th in points per game, with a total of 78 points.
-His NEXT best season ever, he finished 23rd in points per game with 82 points (6 players had over 100 that year).

Eichel is a VERY skilled player, and those skills translate to him being a 20th-25th best forward in the league year after year....who you HOPE gives you a full season but usually you have to assume he will miss a few games.
That type of player is not a problem....they are ONLY a problem if you put expectations on him to be a top 5 scorer, not a top 25 scorer that he actually is.

Excellent analysis. Eichel is just like a Ferrari: A lot of fun when he's drivable ..... but he spends an awful lot of time in the repair shop.

IMHO, Vegas seems to have been careful to build their system so that they can still have regular season success without Eichel (and just went 6-3-1 with him out for another spell), but it seems that their hope is that they can get him healthy for at least the playoffs when talent differences really begin to show, and then he can help to push them over the edge.

It just a very different circumstance for Eichel in Vegas, in that he's not a captain or an alternate and is not even expected to carry the team on his shoulders, and he seems to have responded very well, including hustling on the boards and playing much better defense when needed than most of us thought he was even capable of. It is almost like he's relieved that he doesn't have to be an Alpha Dog on the team, leaving that role to Stone and Pietrangelo.

So, fingers crossed that he's healthy for the playoffs.

 

[mjd1001]

It just a very different circumstance for Eichel in Vegas, in that he's not a captain or an alternate and is not even expected to carry the team on his shoulders, and he seems to have responded very well, including hustling on the boards and playing much better defense when needed than most of us thought he was even capable of. It is almost like he's relieved that he doesn't have to be an Alpha Dog on the team, leaving that role to Stone and Pietrangelo.

I was thinking of adding something like what you just stated above, I think that is the key.

He almost has to have and embrace that 1b or 2a role.....like a Phil Kessel. Won't carry your team, but can be a really REALLY great 2nd or 3rd complimentary piece.

It really could be one of those trades that works out for both Teams. Eichel can fit in BETTER in that role in Vegas that he never was going to get in Buffalo, and be a point producer there.
Tage Thompson may never have been moved to center or got the ice time in Buffalo if Eichel wasn't there, and Tuch is blossoming into a top winger and he is 'back home' close to where he grew up playing for his favorite childhood team in the Sabres.

 

[VaporTrail]

Yes Jack is the problem..Trade him to St.Louis for Ryan O'Reilly

 

[VivaLasVegas]

I was thinking of adding something like what you just stated above, I think that is the key.

He almost has to have and embrace that 1b or 2a role.....like a Phil Kessel. Won't carry your team, but can be a really REALLY great 2nd or 3rd complimentary piece.

It really could be one of those trades that works out for both Teams. Eichel can fit in BETTER in that role in Vegas that he never was going to get in Buffalo, and be a point producer there.
Tage Thompson may never have been moved to center or got the ice time in Buffalo if Eichel wasn't there, and Tuch is blossoming into a top winger and he is 'back home' close to where he grew up playing for his favorite childhood team in the Sabres.

Right, it was a good trade for both teams. Hated to see Tuch go, but he gets to play a larger role for Buffalo than he was likely to play in Vegas because of roster considerations.

Eichel is reportedly very happy in Vegas. Not being expected to carry the team in the first place, nobody uses his name in vain if the team loses. Perhaps for the first time in his career, he gets to shut out everything but concentrating on his own game (and trying to stay healthy). At the same time, he gets to be overshadowed by the numerous other resident celebrities or the many passing through and live a relatively normal life. He also seems to be benefitting greatly by having so many Cup-experienced older players around him, such as Pietrangelo, Kessell, Martinez, etc.

 

[WhataKnight]

Right, it was a good trade for both teams. Hated to see Tuch go, but he gets to play a larger role for Buffalo than he was likely to play in Vegas because of roster considerations.

Eichel is reportedly very happy in Vegas. Not being expected to carry the team in the first place, nobody uses his name in vain if the team loses. Perhaps for the first time in his career, he gets to shut out everything but concentrating on his own game (and trying to stay healthy). At the same time, he gets to be overshadowed by the numerous other resident celebrities or the many passing through and live a relatively normal life. He also seems to be benefitting greatly by having so many Cup-experienced older players around him, such as Pietrangelo, Kessell, Martinez, etc.

This is also the first time he’s not had an overpowering amount of attention on a team. Far easier to simply show up and amass points when you’re not expected to Keanu Reeves a team to glory almost singlehanded.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

This is also the first time he’s not had an overpowering amount of attention on a team. Far easier to simply show up and amass points when you’re not expected to Keanu Reeves a team to glory almost singlehanded.

Exactly. Much lower pressure on Jack.

 

[buffalowing88]

Buffalo fans get real defensive, real quick when players don't really buy into the whole small town vibe. Eichel never really seemed like the type who cared about what they thought and our more sensitive fans took issue with him for it and it ended really badly.

I remember he was on an interview with Josh Allen for local media right before his last season here and he completely big-timed Allen which I thought was odd considering one is a nationally-known celebrity who embraces the community and was magnanimous to Eichel whereas the other is an unknown outside of hockey fandom and who wanted nothing to do with the community.

There are rumors that he skipped out on a charity event with Allen that tanked their relationship completely but I can't confirm that. I can definitely confirm he was a dick to Allen throughout their joint interview, though and I think it's common knowledge now that he essentially orchestrated coups that shoved out his coach and possibly expedited the O'Reilly trade.

That sort of told me the type of guy he is and I realized he'd be better off in a market that is flashier and on a team where the only thing expected of him was on ice production.

That's all a long-winded way of saying I think he's perfectly fine for VGK and I'm sure their fans are happy with a dependable forward who can play in all situations and average a PPG. He's an extremely talented hockey player, that's undeniable.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Vegas got the best player in what’s turning out to be a solidly win-win deal.

 

[WhataKnight]

Buffalo fans get real defensive, real quick when players don't really buy into the whole small town vibe. Eichel never really seemed like the type who cared about what they thought and our more sensitive fans took issue with him for it and it ended really badly.

I remember he was on an interview with Josh Allen for local media right before his last season here and he completely big-timed Allen which I thought was odd considering one is a nationally-known celebrity who embraces the community and was magnanimous to Eichel whereas the other is an unknown outside of hockey fandom and who wanted nothing to do with the community.

There are rumors that he skipped out on a charity event with Allen that tanked their relationship completely but I can't confirm that. I can definitely confirm he was a dick to Allen throughout their joint interview, though and I think it's common knowledge now that he essentially orchestrated coups that shoved out his coach and possibly expedited the O'Reilly trade.

That sort of told me the type of guy he is and I realized he'd be better off in a market that is flashier and on a team where the only thing expected of him was on ice production.

That's all a long-winded way of saying I think he's perfectly fine for VGK and I'm sure their fans are happy with a dependable forward who can play in all situations and average a PPG. He's an extremely talented hockey player, that's undeniable.

I can get behind most of that; I just don’t think one can necessary discern so much about character from what was a high-pressure situation. Maybe even an eventual “hopeless situation” due to the roster needs at that time.

I just tried looking for articles with more detail than blurbs, but I’m pretty certain I recall that the tribute video played when he came back as a Knight was done largely by Buffalo area charities with whom he was still on good terms.

Water under bridges, sure. And the following speculation is not made about the mindset of the poster I’m quoting here……but it never stopped looking to me like the ‘elephant in the room’ got there from the following steps:

• Management overpromising and underdelivering to both player and fans. Eventually it became obvious that it would take more than one PPG Player to turn things around, and the shuffling of coach & GM behind the bench wasn’t enough to spark it.

• Frustration sets in on both sides regarding what someone around 23-24 at the time should be able to get done. As many do at that age, the 23-ish year old may not be great at keeping his doubts hidden.

• Then comes the injury…..admittedly he wanted a somewhat experimental surgery, but somewhere around here, the FO may have thought that despite immediate team success not being within the reach of one player (eg; McDavid) it was about time to stop saying yes automatically and finally say “no.” Then you get a guy only half a decade removed from being a teenager wanting a “newfangled” procedure versus older hockey minds who have seen people cope with the discomfort that follows spinal fusion for years.

• Neither side blinks until Buffalo gets the right deal - luckily one in which they have more assurance pops up with a Western NY native.

•The FO is then free to toss Eichel under the bus - after all, ownership isn’t going anywhere. Once Eichel is scapegoated effectively, any blame for all the mismanagement active then pales in comparison to the amount thrown to the player, turning the frustrations of a guy in his early /mid 20’s into a boogeyman of epic character failures when trading down for multiple 1sts would have been the smarter strategic move, doubly so since this would have allowed BUF to draft several players not named McDavid whom Tim Murray didn’t just shit on at the Lottery. Instead, the FO problems persisted. So, blame the kid, change a few jobs, turn “character issues” into a mantra. Pegula’s problem, solved.

Kind of a long way to say it, but I don’t think that the convergence of forces, stances and physical states found here makes for the best litmus test to determine whether any individual has positive or negative character.

 

[Dr Black]

Vegas got the best player in what’s turning out to be a solidly win-win deal.

Credit to both Jack Eichel and the Sabres to recognize that this marriage between Eichel and the Sabres, for a variety of reasons, just was not working, and it was time to move on.

Now, Buffalo has Alex Tuch who loves it there and is producing more than a point per game. But more importantly, has brought a very positive vibe to the team. Something that wasn't there before. As well as some picks and prospects that could help Buffalo in the future.

At the same time, Vegas has a player that, when healthy, is a point-per-game, all-star calibre player in Eichel. A player who is thriving much more in an environment where he is one of several key players as opposed to the key player carrying a franchise on his back.

 

[CaptainUgly]

Buffalo fans get real defensive, real quick when players don't really buy into the whole small town vibe. Eichel never really seemed like the type who cared about what they thought and our more sensitive fans took issue with him for it and it ended really badly.

I remember he was on an interview with Josh Allen for local media right before his last season here and he completely big-timed Allen which I thought was odd considering one is a nationally-known celebrity who embraces the community and was magnanimous to Eichel whereas the other is an unknown outside of hockey fandom and who wanted nothing to do with the community.

There are rumors that he skipped out on a charity event with Allen that tanked their relationship completely but I can't confirm that. I can definitely confirm he was a dick to Allen throughout their joint interview, though and I think it's common knowledge now that he essentially orchestrated coups that shoved out his coach and possibly expedited the O'Reilly trade.

That sort of told me the type of guy he is and I realized he'd be better off in a market that is flashier and on a team where the only thing expected of him was on ice production.

That's all a long-winded way of saying I think he's perfectly fine for VGK and I'm sure their fans are happy with a dependable forward who can play in all situations and average a PPG. He's an extremely talented hockey player, that's undeniable.

Jack might want to check his ego…..I remember a UFC tweet from one of the ppvs and the entire comments section wondered who the f*** Jack Eichel was

 

[buffalowing88]

I can get behind most of that; I just don’t think one can necessary discern so much about character from what was a high-pressure situation. Maybe even an eventual “hopeless situation” due to the roster needs at that time.

I just tried looking for articles with more detail than blurbs, but I’m pretty certain I recall that the tribute video played when he came back as a Knight was done largely by Buffalo area charities with whom he was still on good terms.

Water under bridges, sure. And the following speculation is not made about the mindset of the poster I’m quoting here……but it never stopped looking to me like the ‘elephant in the room’ got there from the following steps:

• Management overpromising and underdelivering to both player and fans. Eventually it became obvious that it would take more than one PPG Player to turn things around, and the shuffling of coach & GM behind the bench wasn’t enough to spark it.

• Frustration sets in on both sides regarding what someone around 23-24 at the time should be able to get done. As many do at that age, the 23-ish year old may not be great at keeping his doubts hidden.

• Then comes the injury…..admittedly he wanted a somewhat experimental surgery, but somewhere around here, the FO may have thought that despite immediate team success not being within the reach of one player (eg; McDavid) it was about time to stop saying yes automatically and finally say “no.” Then you get a guy only half a decade removed from being a teenager wanting a “newfangled” procedure versus older hockey minds who have seen people cope with the discomfort that follows spinal fusion for years.

• Neither side blinks until Buffalo gets the right deal - luckily one in which they have more assurance pops up with a Western NY native.

•The FO is then free to toss Eichel under the bus - after all, ownership isn’t going anywhere. Once Eichel is scapegoated effectively, any blame for all the mismanagement active then pales in comparison to the amount thrown to the player, turning the frustrations of a guy in his early /mid 20’s into a boogeyman of epic character failures when trading down for multiple 1sts would have been the smarter strategic move, doubly so since this would have allowed BUF to draft several players not named McDavid whom Tim Murray didn’t just shit on at the Lottery. Instead, the FO problems persisted. So, blame the kid, change a few jobs, turn “character issues” into a mantra. Pegula’s problem, solved.

Kind of a long way to say it, but I don’t think that the convergence of forces, stances and physical states found here makes for the best litmus test to determine whether any individual has positive or negative character.

Oh no, that's totally fair and you brought up some great stuff he did for the community, too. I was more trying to take on the perspective of the sensitive fanbase that I know our team maintains. Sabres fans include some odd-ducks. It happens when you suck for this long after historically being one of the most competitive franchises for years.

I don't think Eichel wanted anything to do with Buffalo for the latter part of his career but that doesn't mean he didn't go through the motions with other stuff. Guy was out giving out turkeys on Thanksgiving in Buffalo right after Covid.

I think the issue was that he was sort of juxtaposed with Allen as heroes and there's probably like two other cities in the country where a hockey player is potentially as big a celebrity as a football player and Buffalo just happens to be one of them. It wasn't a good look for him.

Jack might want to check his ego…..I remember a UFC tweet from one of the ppvs and the entire comments section wondered who the f*** Jack Eichel was

As if anyone in the audience for a UFC fight would even know who he was. Sounds about right.

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Jack Eichel needs a decent supporting cast around him. He’s not good enough of a player to carry a group on his own. Aka John Tavares situation.

 

[BuffaloSabresSword]

Glad Eichel isnt in Buffalo anymore . Tuch is better . Massive cap for Eichel also with cozens and Thompson better . Sabres is way better without him. Eichel havent develope into that star player

 

[BuffaloSabresSword]

Would not want eichel even For free or with 4 mil cap. Hopefully he can be better for Vegas.

 

[WhataKnight]

Glad Eichel isnt in Buffalo anymore . Tuch is better . Massive cap for Eichel also with cozens and Thompson better . Sabres is way better without him. Eichel havent develope into that star player

This ^^^ is what I was talking about when I referenced “Pegula apologists”……just think, if Murray/Pegula hadn’t collectively shat the bed, none would need to cling so desperately to a narrative that proclaimed 0.64 PPG > 0.94 PPG.

Hell; you could have had Eichel AND Thompson if ownership hadn’t let Murray and Botterill poison the rebuild attempt…..or go full caveman about the surgery, even…but to say that Eichel didn’t develop into a star player? That’s just the sort of butthurt that makes anyone with stock in Preparation-H hard as a rock.

 

[WhataKnight]

Would not want eichel even For free or with 4 mil cap. Hopefully he can be better for Vegas.

Don’t worry - he already is.

Vegas - for better or worse *admittedly* - had the over-abundance of leadership in place that just lets the guy play hockey. He’s not being leaned on to overcome a rudderless FO, being tasked to “Keanu Reeves” a team from basement to penthouse on his own.

Tuch and Krebs help BUF by spreading out the threats. With Dahlin & Power playing now and more stability up front, BUF will be better for it.

And this is why I said that the minute Tim Murray f’ed the Sabres fans and FO over with that comment - and he hasn’t been a GM since, I’ll add - the smarter move would have been trading down and snagging 2 or maybe even 3 players out of the 1st round. (No need for a fan base to require repeated spin hypnosis with a blueline featuring Power, Dahlin and Chabot and a guy like Kyle Connor for Thompson to feed, yeah?)

No matter what revisionist history or sore spots anyone wishes to blame Jack Eichel for, all I gotta do is point to what the guy the Pegulas hired said after they lost the lottery.

Chronology is no close friend to anyone in Buffalo looking to shit on Eichel; Sabres management beat them to it within minutes of the 2015 Lottery. Facts.

 

[StrompTroller]

FWIW most Sabres fans were graciously wishing Eichel well after the trade. Then his post game comments the first time he played us and on ice antics after his last game (where he played great against us) confirm what others have echoed in the previous few pages...he comes across as a spoiled headcase. now Sabres fans to some extent feel bitter towards him for better or worse. Yet we at the moment are allowed to have our heads in the clouds because our return on the trade has been better than Eichel has been for vegas. I suspect that will change and fluctuate because Eichel when healthy and on his game in a top tier player and I'm not trying to disparage that.

 

[David Lunch]

As an LA fan that always gave him the benefit of the doubt when on the east coast, after seeing a few post game interviews with him and getting more opportunities to get a a vague feeling I’m the air, I think there’s is a problem with his attitude/character. Doesn’t mean he isn’t a great hockey player, but I think I’m glad I don’t share a locker room with him.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Aka John Tavares situation.

That's a very weird thing to say considering his career with the Islanders.

 

[MOGlLNY]

As an LA fan that always gave him the benefit of the doubt when on the east coast, after seeing a few post game interviews with him and getting more opportunities to get a a vague feeling I’m the air, I think there’s is a problem with his attitude/character. Doesn’t mean he isn’t a great hockey player, but I think I’m glad I don’t share a locker room with him.

His personality is certainly not fit for the role and pressure the Sabres put on him.

Trade ended up working for both teams, Tuch is absolutely adored here and playing amazing hockey. Krebs is starting to establish himself as well this year, he's been great as of late. Sabres didn't retain any money so they can can reallocate that right to Dahlin.

Vegas got the best player in the deal who can be in the shuffle rather than the main focal point, which is where I think he fits best. Just needs to stay healthy.

 

[WhataKnight]

FWIW most Sabres fans were graciously wishing Eichel well after the trade. Then his post game comments the first time he played us and on ice antics after his last game (where he played great against us) confirm what others have echoed in the previous few pages...he comes across as a spoiled headcase. now Sabres fans to some extent feel bitter towards him for better or worse. Yet we at the moment are allowed to have our heads in the clouds because our return on the trade has been better than Eichel has been for vegas. I suspect that will change and fluctuate because Eichel when healthy and on his game in a top tier player and I'm not trying to disparage that.

The only disagreements I have with the above would reflect on how anyone who was over-promised to, placed on a pedestal by management, pressured like crazy to move heaven and earth for a franchise, told that they had to get an undesirable surgery and stripped of their captaincy when they held their ground would probably act the same or worse.

As I said previously, Eichel isn’t blameless…..but he was under the age of 25 for virtually all of it. Where’s the demand for better from FO, training staff, etc. if not for the “Jack has an attitude problem” narrative that helps keeps the Pegulas’ hands clean?

Sabres’ FO ineptitude WAAAAAAAY outstrips Jack’s attitude here. There are too many pivotal points here that the front office botched - Lottery, Draft, Surgery - that predate Eichel even putting on a Draft Day jersey. Still, he’s easier to blame than the owners, and that’ll be 96% of what matters to large swathes of Western NY.

 

[MOGlLNY]

The only disagreements I have with the above would reflect on how anyone who was over-promised to, placed on a pedestal by management, pressured like crazy to move heaven and earth for a franchise, told that they had to get an undesirable surgery and stripped of their captaincy when they held their ground would probably act the same or worse.

As I said previously, Eichel isn’t blameless…..but he was under the age of 25 for virtually all of it. Where’s the demand for better from FO, training staff, etc. if not for the “Jack has an attitude problem” narrative that helps keeps the Pegulas’ hands clean?

Sabres’ FO ineptitude WAAAAAAAY outstrips Jack’s attitude here. There are too many pivotal points here that the front office botched - Lottery, Draft, Surgery - that predate Eichel. Still, he’s easier to blame than the owners, and that’ll be all that matters to large swathes of Western NY.

We did and do lol. There's a reason why Jack had a lot of backing until A. It came out from him that he demanded a trade before the neck problem. B. His post game interview

There's also a reason the building has been barren since he was moved and is just now bouncing back. Because our fans said "ok we're not taking this shit anymore, f*** this until you get your stuff in order".

I assure you that our board has a lot more disdain looking back for Murray, Krueger, Botts etc. than Eichel. But it's a lot easier to notice how we feel about Eichel because we still see Jack twice a year. And well he's a former franchise player that was traded, the topic will always be hot button.

 

[WhataKnight]

We did and do lol. There's a reason why Jack had a lot of backing until A. It came out from him that he demanded a trade before the neck problem. B. His post game interview

There's also a reason the building has been barren since he was moved and is just now bouncing back. Because our fans said "ok we're not taking this shit anymore, f*** this until you get get your stuff in order".

I assure you that our board has a lot more disdain looking back for Murray, Krueger, Botts etc. than Eichel. But it's a lot easier to notice how we feel about Eichel because we still see Jack twice a year. And well he's a former franchise player that was traded, the topic will always be hot button.

Respect to that. I should note that as a Knights fan that grew up in the region and moved west ages ago, some voices are just louder. LOL

Just want to recognize the diff between rational Sabres fans and those that…..how did I put it…..”help a narrative on Eichel’s attitude become a boogeyman of epic proportions” to the continued glee of Tim Pegula.

Someday I may have a more negative opinion of Eichel, but currently in Vegas, we see him play defense (!!!) we see the team around him gel solidly with him, and it makes the harsher statements of attitude problems from a number of Sabres fans sound more like “cherry-picked grousings of a jilted ex” than honest observations of character quality - kinda like how one on a train from NY to TOR with no knowledge of hockey could for a split second believe that there are two people named John Tavares in the NHL.

The worst thing I’ve seen Jack Eichel do is use his desired surgery to force the team’s hand, and if he was tired of how that operation was going at the time, I don’t think that’s the most egregious thing after the carousel of everything thrown his way since the second Edmonton won the McSweepstakes.

As for high-octane attitude problems, J.T. Miller put up 90+ points last year, and I’d much rather have Eichel’s output and attitude over THAT.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The only disagreements I have with the above would reflect on how anyone who was over-promised to, placed on a pedestal by management, pressured like crazy to move heaven and earth for a franchise, told that they had to get an undesirable surgery and stripped of their captaincy when they held their ground would probably act the same or worse.

As I said previously, Eichel isn’t blameless…..but he was under the age of 25 for virtually all of it. Where’s the demand for better from FO, training staff, etc. if not for the “Jack has an attitude problem” narrative that helps keeps the Pegulas’ hands clean?

Sabres’ FO ineptitude WAAAAAAAY outstrips Jack’s attitude here. There are too many pivotal points here that the front office botched - Lottery, Draft, Surgery - that predate Eichel even putting on a Draft Day jersey. Still, he’s easier to blame than the owners, and that’ll be 96% of what matters to large swathes of Western NY.

What Sabres fan doesn’t place a lot of blame on the Murray or Botts front offices?