Is Rob Blake the Problem?

[GoldenBearHockey]

Trading Demitra immediately
Trading Visnovsky for Stoll and Greene
Rob Scudreri "over payment"
Dealing O'Sullivan for Williams
Giving Mitchell the extra year

This is just some Lombardi stuff. As for being reactionary, that pretty much summarizes Dean's downfall as he lost sight of the future while trying to chase the past which, to be fair, was a very recent past.

The Kings were the 2nd worst team in the league in Blake's 2nd season as GM. He was completely blindsided. I don't care about the arguments why that isn't his fault because I can argue for why Dean did ultimately stupid **** as well: the bottom line is that they were wrong and GMs generally don't get to hold their positions for very long if they are wrong a lot of the time.

Anyone can look at scoring three goals in four games in a playoff sweep and just go "Just add scorer" without taking in to account everything else. That is reactionary, HF Board level roster management. Now, if AEG was forcing the continuation of milking the golden cow then I'd give Blake some slack there but, as it stands, it was his move. You and I have been down this road before but, again, we should all want a visionary and not a paint-by-numbers GM. Blake has firmly been the latter. Maybe he is actually an artist but he hasn't been a step ahead of anything so far.

Dude, we might be on different planets, you think trading Demitra was looking ahead 2 moves? Visnovsky, etc?

Demitra - 62 points in LA, 64 in Minny, 54 in Minny, 53 in Vancouver, sorry...where did Demitra drop off? HOW is that a move that you think is 2 moves ahead, ahead of what??
Visnovsky - traded before a NTC kicked in, went on for 8 more years having his best season ever in Anaheim, that's 2 moves ahead, again, of what??
Scuderi - not sure what you mean by overpayment, he signed as a free agent because at the time, this was LA's defense - Quincy, Doughty, Greene, Harrold, OD, JJ, Preissing, Gauthier, and Drewiske....OD was 36, Quincy, Harrold, Preissing and Gauthier, anyone would have been an upgrade, plus he was brought in to mentor Doughty....again.....2 steps into the future how?? What did he avoid by signing Scuderi?

That's not being 2 steps ahead, everyone single move you listed had definite reasons behind them, not seeing into the future.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It never fails to astound me how many people double-punish Blake...1st, for not rebuilding immediately, and again, because he's rebuilding and his draft picks haven't hit the roster.

 

[BigKing]

Dude, we might be on different planets, you think trading Demitra was looking ahead 2 moves? Visnovsky, etc?

Demitra - 62 points in LA, 64 in Minny, 54 in Minny, 53 in Vancouver, sorry...where did Demitra drop off? HOW is that a move that you think is 2 moves ahead, ahead of what??
Visnovsky - traded before a NTC kicked in, went on for 8 more years having his best season ever in Anaheim, that's 2 moves ahead, again, of what??
Scuderi - not sure what you mean by overpayment, he signed as a free agent because at the time, this was LA's defense - Quincy, Doughty, Greene, Harrold, OD, JJ, Preissing, Gauthier, and Drewiske....OD was 36, Quincy, Harrold, Preissing and Gauthier, anyone would have been an upgrade, plus he was brought in to mentor Doughty....again.....2 steps into the future how?? What did he avoid by signing Scuderi?

That's not being 2 steps ahead, everyone single move you listed had definite reasons behind them, not seeing into the future.

No offense, but you just won this argument for me. Not being a jerk about it either.

You're living in the now just like what some of us are arguing against. Demitra's point totals wouldn't have mattered to where the Kings were going so DL got a 1st and the top offensive prospect in hockey. Then Dean saw the writing on the wall with O'Sullivan and flipped him for Williams, again being ahead of the game. Demitra is out of the league before the two ultimate pieces from the deal--Lewis and Williams--are helping the Kings win their two Cups.

DL was building a culture so he traded a more talented player for two young guys that were key components to everything that was to follow. Visnovsky is less than a half point a game on a bad Ducks team while Stoll and Greene are helping the Kings win the first of their two Cups.

Scuderi was given significant term and coin for what he was perceived as around the league. Dean overpaid compared to the market because he was ahead of the game on Scuderi.

Being two steps ahead isn't always about "avoiding" something, it is about gaining something.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

It's funny that Blake is berated as signing Kovalchuk as a reason to call him a failure and fire him...and Montreal GM Bergevin is called a genius for signing him.

 

[BigKing]

It's funny that Blake is berated as signing Kovalchuk as a reason to call him a failure and fire him...and Montreal GM Bergevin is called a genius for signing him.

I don't think anyone is saying that Blake is a failure and should be fired because he signed Kovalchuk; however, it is definitely a mistake. More to the point, it is a symbol of how much Blake misdiagnosed the roster at that point in time.

There is, of course, a big difference between taking a $700K shot v. a three year, $18MM contract. There was pretty much no risk for Bergevin.

 

[Choralone]

Again, who thought the Kings were going from a first-round playoff exit to arguably the worst team in the NHL in just a few months?

 

[KINGS17]

My real concern with Blake is the culture of the organization. It is too early in his tenure to determine the organization's ability to acquire new young players (via draft picks or UFA signings) as most of them are not even professional hockey players at this time.

I don't know Blake as a hockey executive, but I know Lombardi to a certain degree. One of Dean's biggest issues that he communicated early on was the culture with the Kings entire organization needed to change. His early moves were designed to do just that from the signing of Thornton and Handzus to moving Demitra out on the first day of the draft. He stockpiled young assets and let them know he wanted them to have a crown tattooed on their ass.

He wasn't joking. Case in point Dean liked Visnovsky quite a bit when he first arrived. So much so that in July of 2007 Dean signed a soon to be 31-year old Visnovsky to a 5-year extension. In the 2005-06 season Lubo had 67 points in 80 games, then in 2006-07 he followed it up with 58 points in 69 games. Rob Blake rejoined the Kings in 2006-07 and Lubo was still playing well. Then the following season 2007-08 and with Lubo coming back from being injured the previous season, Lubo spent almost an entire season deferring to Blake. That season Lubo played all 82 games, had 41 points, and was a minus 18.

Blake who had been named the Kings new captain prior to the season, following the departure of everyone's favorite spleen-killer Mattias Norstrom became a sort of bell cow for the Kings. Many players seemed to follow his lead for better, or for worse. Dean felt Lubo deferred far too much to Blake, and that Lubo's game might start slipping, so Dean pulled the trigger on a trade that returned two known leaders in Greene and Stoll. I had an opportunity to ask Dean about signing Lubo a year earlier, then moving him before his NTC kicked in. Dean pretty much said Lubo wasn't the quite the leader he thought he had signed a year earlier.

Other cases that are obvious and both were related to contract issues. Cammalleri had 80 points in the 2006-07 season and wanted to be paid as if he was the Kings best player, but Lombardi knew at the time 19-year old Anze Kopitar was going to be the Kings best player in short order. Cammalleri was moved out, and Dean said he will always be the best player on a bad team. That comment kind of said it all when it came to Dean and Cammalleri.

Then you had the O'Sullivan contract negotiation where O'Sullivan held out and Dean shipped him out as quickly as possible.

Those deals sent a message loud and clear. It may not be fair to Blake, but I haven't seen many messages from him.

 

[crassbonanza]

1 - Richards decision kicks off the time frame I mentioned.

Then we aren't discussing the greatest period of time in franchise history like you said. The greatest period of time in franchise history ended when the Richards decision happened.

2 - Were they "retooling"? I think they were just trying to keep winning with what they had. Trying to make the playoffs every year and drafting in the 20s doesn't really mean "retool". I think they were just going to try to win as much as possible with the core--somewhat out of necessity--and not trade picks/prospects unless it was for someone with term that could help extend the window of "just get in and see what happens". there wouldn't be a Lucic type deal but a Patches type one was on the table.

Blake was very clear from when he started that he wanted to restock the cupboard. He recognized that the Kings having an empty cupboard was dangerous and started immediately trying to solve the problem through signing college free agents and keeping his draft picks/prospects.

3 - So has he done anything? Low-risk decisions? He's had the job for almost three seasons and he hasn't had to do anything? That kind of supports the argument that he isn't anything special since, as long as he keeps his draft picks, nothing else matters.

He has completely overhauled the Kings prospect pool, they now have the number 1 ranked prospect pool in the league. That is a big something. He was able to do that by making low risk moves and we are in a much better position for it.

4 - He would have been ripped apart if he went all in at the 2018
deadline. He's actually lucky Carter got hurt or else he might have gone all in without Carter's return being his deadline deal. Regardless, he did trade a draft pick for trash Torrey Mitchell so he was tinkering for the present at the expense of the future since we'd all rather have that 4th round pick. More to the point though, many Blake supporters would fault him for going all-in during that year; if they didn't, they would all be hypocrites anytime they faulted Dean for doing the same.
Also, did he stand by his plan? What was the plan? If standing by your plan is a special skill, then Dean was very special since his failure to pivot during his last three years got him fired. I'm actually glad Blake moved off of whatever the plan was with the Muzzin trade and most everything that has followed.

Yes, people would fault him for going all in in 2018, because it would go against what he said he planned to do. His plan was to restock the cupboard and not trade the future away. He stuck by that plan and has succeeded in that endeavor.

5 - I bring up Dean because most of the praise for Blake comes at the expense of trashing Dean's final act, primarily because there isn't much to praise Blake for but its easy to say "At least he hasn't done x". Great. He hasn't stuck a fork in the light socket, been electrocuted and then did it again. I'm glad he hasn't been an incompetent mess but he also hasn't done anything to deserve strong support. He has been a giant "meh" which makes it easy to **** on him if you don't like his history with the franchise and easy to strongly support him if you are a fan of his.

The only praise that Blake gets is how well he restocked the cupboard and I wouldn't even say that he gets much praise for that. The thing people typically do is defend him from people who seem to irrationally hate him. Thos people typically tend to be ardent Dean supporters and that is where the comparisons begin. I don't know if Blake is a good GM or bad one, I have liked some of his moves and disliked others. I am not a fan of him personally because I don't like the way his career ended with us. I do however think it is patently unfair to throw him under the bus the way some do. If you aren't able to recognize that he has successfully rebuilt the pool I don't know what to tell you.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

I don't think anyone is saying that Blake is a failure and should be fired because he signed Kovalchuk; however, it is definitely a mistake. More to the point, it is a symbol of how much Blake misdiagnosed the roster at that point in time.

There is, of course, a big difference between taking a $700K shot v. a three year, $18MM contract. There was pretty much no risk for Bergevin.

Yes, but I do not think it was just Blake thinking the Kings were contenders...I think it was even moreso Luc, Beckerman, Solomon...etc.
And Kovalchuk will still be better in his 3rd year, next season, than any King forward not named Kopitar or Iafallo.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

My real concern with Blake is the culture of the organization. It is too early in his tenure to determine the organization's ability to acquire new young players (via draft picks or UFA signings) as most of them are not even professional hockey players at this time.

I don't know Blake as a hockey executive, but I know Lombardi to a certain degree. One of Dean's biggest issues that he communicated early on was the culture with the Kings entire organization needed to change. His early moves were designed to do just that from the signing of Thornton and Handzus to moving Demitra out on the first day of the draft. He stockpiled young assets and let them know he wanted them to have a crown tattooed on their ass.

He wasn't joking. Case in point Dean liked Visnovsky quite a bit when he first arrived. So much so that in July of 2007 Dean signed a soon to be 31-year old Visnovsky to a 5-year extension. In the 2005-06 season Lubo had 67 points in 80 games, then in 2006-07 he followed it up with 58 points in 69 games. Rob Blake rejoined the Kings in 2006-07 and Lubo was still playing well. Then the following season 2007-08 and with Lubo coming back from being injured the previous season, Lubo spent almost an entire season deferring to Blake. That season Lubo played all 82 games, had 41 points, and was a minus 18.

Blake who had been named the Kings new captain prior to the season, following the departure of everyone's favorite spleen-killer Mattias Norstrom became a sort of bell cow for the Kings. Many players seemed to follow his lead for better, or for worse. Dean felt Lubo deferred far too much to Blake, and that Lubo's game might start slipping, so Dean pulled the trigger on a trade that returned two known leaders in Greene and Stoll. I had an opportunity to ask Dean about signing Lubo a year earlier, then moving him before his NTC kicked in. Dean pretty much said Lubo wasn't the quite the leader he thought he had signed a year earlier.

Other cases that are obvious and both were related to contract issues. Cammalleri had 80 points in the 2006-07 season and wanted to be paid as if he was the Kings best player, but Lombardi knew at the time 19-year old Anze Kopitar was going to be the Kings best player in short order. Cammalleri was moved out, and Dean said he will always be the best player on a bad team. That comment kind of said it all when it came to Dean and Cammalleri.

Then you had the O'Sullivan contract negotiation where O'Sullivan held out and Dean shipped him out as quickly as possible.

Those deals sent a message loud and clear. It may not be fair to Blake, but I haven't seen many messages from him.

This “culture” you speak of is on the players. The GM can add the players, but the supposed culture setters and leaders are the same ones who got Sutter/Lombardi fired, they also did the same to Terry Murray.

A lot of the “culture” also left before Blake took over. And Cammalleri was sold low and flourished on decent teams in Calgary and Montreal and he remained productive on those teams. Funny enough, Sutter was the Flames GM when Lombardi traded him to Calgary.

 

[KINGS17]

This “culture” you speak of is on the players. The GM can add the players, but the supposed culture setters and leaders are the same ones who got Sutter/Lombardi fired, they also did the same to Terry Murray.

A lot of the “culture” also left before Blake took over. And Cammalleri was sold low and flourished on decent teams in Calgary and Montreal and he remained productive on those teams. Funny enough, Sutter was the Flames GM when Lombardi traded him to Calgary.

Well, Cammalleri never won jack, and what you are pointing out is exactly what Dean said about him. Sutter was a fine coach, not so good as a GM.

It is on the players, which is why it is past time for Blake to send a message.

 

[The Tikkanen]

And honestly, Kovalchuk started with 14 pts in 15 games (something like that) and was fitting in fine. It's after WD came on, things went South...putting him on 3rd and 4th lines and scratching him.
He's showing he can still play. 12 pts in 14 games PLUS 6 and 3 GW goals. Only one of his 6 goals is a PP goal. He's scoring even strength, OT goals and shootout goals too.
I know I have said it like 5 times, but I honestly feel if he was playing with Kopitar, he would stil be here and would have scored 50+ pts last year and this year.
But Cpt Anze wants to play with Iafallo. Despite that, no player should make a final call who they play with; that's a coaching decision.
So this Kovalchuk 'failure' is more of how he was misused here, than a Blake failure.

I agree 100% with your take on Kopitar. There seems to be some cement in the lines and it only applies to 3 players-Brown, Kopitar and Iafallo regardless of production or lack thereof. Brown has been awful for over a month now and he's apparently Teflon Don.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I only wish “everyone’s favorite spleen-killer Mattias Norstrom” would fit as my new username.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

No offense, but you just won this argument for me. Not being a jerk about it either.

You're living in the now just like what some of us are arguing against. Demitra's point totals wouldn't have mattered to where the Kings were going so DL got a 1st and the top offensive prospect in hockey. Then Dean saw the writing on the wall with O'Sullivan and flipped him for Williams, again being ahead of the game. Demitra is out of the league before the two ultimate pieces from the deal--Lewis and Williams--are helping the Kings win their two Cups.

DL was building a culture so he traded a more talented player for two young guys that were key components to everything that was to follow. Visnovsky is less than a half point a game on a bad Ducks team while Stoll and Greene are helping the Kings win the first of their two Cups.

Scuderi was given significant term and coin for what he was perceived as around the league. Dean overpaid compared to the market because he was ahead of the game on Scuderi.

Being two steps ahead isn't always about "avoiding" something, it is about gaining something.

Dean was absolutely building a culture, and he was doing it piece by piece, that's not being 2 steps ahead....that's just astonishing that line of thinking,

That's like saying Edmonton is two steps ahead because they drafted and signed Draisitl.....or Dallas is two steps ahead because they traded for Seguin.

So Blake, is what, 4 steps ahead with the Muzzin trade? Or 3 steps ahead on drafting Turcotte.....sorry bud, that's just hindsight talking, that's all it is.

 

[ru4reals]

Blake hasn't been here long enough in my opinion to let him go. I'm willing to give him another 2 or so years and see how he does before giving him the ax.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

My real concern with Blake is the culture of the organization. It is too early in his tenure to determine the organization's ability to acquire new young players (via draft picks or UFA signings) as most of them are not even professional hockey players at this time.

Culture and planning. First came on the scene and said it’s a cup contending team, just need to add speed etc. Then changes gear in the middle of last season to a rebuild, culture is more of a live on the beach and work whenever you feel like it. There’s no real goal to work towards.

Hopefully Blake can articulate some sort of plan or vision for the kind of team he wants after the deadline. He needs to start getting creative with the roster, possibly consider trading Doughty or Kopitar. However I feel like Corporate (AEG) wants these guys to retire as Kings.

 

[Ryan120420]

Not a fan of Blake but will give him credit, he is really good at dumpster diving in the College and UFA levels. Walker,Iafallo, lizotte have been very solid players. And it looks like Frk may be another one of his finds.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Blake hasn't been here long enough in my opinion to let him go. I'm willing give him another 2 or so years and see how he does before giving him the ax.

From a neutral NHL perspective I think this post is very fair and correct on all points. He is obviously rebuilding by the draft and with players with certain skill sets. As a prospects watcher I like what he is doing. He’s dealing from a position of strength and maxing return on picks and prospects. The Kings prospects cache is deep with a lot of quality. He deserves another 2 years atleast to see how the fruit will bloom from the foundation he has built. If Kings do replace him in the future I can guarantee Blake’s fingerprints will be all over this franchise. He has shown me he is a sharp talent evaluator and deal maker thus far.

 

[KINGS17]

I only wish “everyone’s favorite spleen-killer Mattias Norstrom” would fit as my new username.

Just shorten it up to "Spleen-Killer Norstrom".

 

[KINGS17]

From a neutral NHL perspective I think this post is very fair and correct on all points. He is obviously rebuilding by the draft and with players with certain skill sets. As a prospects watcher I like what he is doing. He’s dealing from a position of strength and maxing return on picks and prospects. The Kings prospects cache is deep with a lot of quality. He deserves another 2 years atleast to see how the fruit will bloom from the foundation he has built. If Kings do replace him in the future I can guarantee Blake’s fingerprints will be all over this franchise. He has shown me he is a sharp talent evaluator and deal maker thus far.

I like your post, but I will admit to not liking Blake the player. I am concerned this organization is reverting to the type of culture that existed when Blake and Robitaille were playing for the Kings. I am also concerned Robitaille seems to have final approval on all of Blake's major moves. There are rumors out there Blake may be resigning his position as GM after this season.

Personally, I think the Kings should fire Robitaille.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Here's the problem with the LA Kings:
Last 10 games:
Kopitar 1 goal
Lizotte 0 goals
Amadio 0 goals
Wagner 0 goals
Kempe 0 goals
Prokhorkin 0 goals
Grundstrom 0 goals
Lewis 1 goal
MacDermid 0 goals
Walker 0 goals
Ryan 0 goals
Roy 0 goals
Martinez 0 goals
Doughty 0 goals

 

[KINGS17]

Here's the problem with the LA Kings:
Last 10 games:
Kopitar 1 goal
Lizotte 0 goals
Amadio 0 goals
Wagner 0 goals
Kempe 0 goals
Prokhorkin 0 goals
Grundstrom 0 goals
Lewis 1 goal
MacDermid 0 goals
Walker 0 goals
Ryan 0 goals
Roy 0 goals
Martinez 0 goals
Doughty 0 goals

You left out Brown. He must have 5 or 6 goals, right? Wait, no?

 

[The Tikkanen]

You left out Brown. He must have 5 or 6 goals, right? Wait, no?

2 and a minus 5 but looking at the rest of the team he's ON FIRE.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Kings can’t score yet the hardest and deadliest shot was toiling in Ontario until today.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

It never fails to astound me how many people double-punish Blake...1st, for not rebuilding immediately, and again, because he's rebuilding and his draft picks haven't hit the roster.

I don't see any punishment. I see justifiably skeptical fans who are waiting to pass definitive judgment.

My opinion on Blake thus far is completely ambivalent. How is this a wrong view of Blake? He hasn't proven anything yet, nor has he made any devastating decisions. He is treading water, which is fine. He's in a tough position, and I empathize with that.

I just think it's shocking for any fan to sing his praises at this point in the game. Once upon a time Lombardi stockpiled a ton of assets, many of which were penciled into future contending lineups (Hickey, Purcell, O'Sullivan, even Parse). And a lot of those players ended up busting or being waived/traded. Having the #1 prospect pool in the league means nothing to me. Lombardi never had the consensus #1 pool in the league (to my knowledge, though I know they were top five at one point), and they still went on to win two Cups. Meanwhile, Tampa Bay is deified for their great drafting and development, and they haven't won anything. And that's exactly why I don't put much value in Blake stockpiling a bunch of bluechip prospects. It really doesn't matter until they start contributing at an NHL level to the team's overall improvement.

Lombardi's golden era was NOT in stockpiling picks and prospects, but the moves he made in his second act (Visnovsky trade, Richards, Carter, etc.). That's what put the team over the top. Blake just isn't there yet. I'm of course willing to give him a shot and see how things play out. Unlike others, I don't want him fired. But a filled prospect pool no more guarantees a functional franchise than a filled gas tank guarantees a functional car.