Is Rob Blake the Problem?

[YP44]

no reason for him to go yet. Has there been some misses? yes, but they all had reasoning behind them. I hate what he represented as a King "legend" given his history, but no reason to turf the guy right now.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I like your post, but I will admit to not liking Blake the player. I am concerned this organization is reverting to the type of culture that existed when Blake and Robitaille were playing for the Kings. I am also concerned Robitaille seems to have final approval on all of Blake's major moves. There are rumors out there Blake may be resigning his position as GM after this season.

Personally, I think the Kings should fire Robitaille.

Thanks. I don’t know enough about Luc to make a call on his tenure as a decision maker. But can say it would be a shame if Blake stepped down since from my viewpoint the Kings farm system and players picked have been very good IMO, well impressive is more accurate.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Here's the problem with the LA Kings:
Last 10 games:
Kopitar 1 goal
Lizotte 0 goals
Amadio 0 goals
Wagner 0 goals
Kempe 0 goals
Prokhorkin 0 goals
Grundstrom 0 goals
Lewis 1 goal
MacDermid 0 goals
Walker 0 goals
Ryan 0 goals
Roy 0 goals
Martinez 0 goals
Doughty 0 goals

I agree with the point you are making, but MacDermid, Joakim Ryan, Grundstrom who I believe was just called up, and Prokhorin who was sitting?

Stretching a bit....

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't see any punishment. I see justifiably skeptical fans who are waiting to pass definitive judgment.

My opinion on Blake thus far is completely ambivalent. How is this a wrong view of Blake? He hasn't proven anything yet, nor has he made any devastating decisions. He is treading water, which is fine. He's in a tough position, and I empathize with that.

I just think it's shocking for any fan to sing his praises at this point in the game. Once upon a time Lombardi stockpiled a ton of assets, many of which were penciled into future contending lineups (Hickey, Purcell, O'Sullivan, even Parse). And a lot of those players ended up busting or being waived/traded. Having the #1 prospect pool in the league means nothing to me. Lombardi never had the consensus #1 pool in the league (to my knowledge, though I know they were top five at one point), and they still went on to win two Cups. Meanwhile, Tampa Bay is deified for their great drafting and development, and they haven't won anything. And that's exactly why I don't put much value in Blake stockpiling a bunch of bluechip prospects. It really doesn't matter until they start contributing at an NHL level to the team's overall improvement.

Lombardi's golden era was NOT in stockpiling picks and prospects, but the moves he made in his second act (Visnovsky trade, Richards, Carter, etc.). That's what put the team over the top. Blake just isn't there yet. I'm of course willing to give him a shot and see how things play out. Unlike others, I don't want him fired. But a filled prospect pool no more guarantees a functional franchise than a filled gas tank guarantees a functional car.

Then I'm not talking to you, because you recognize the position, and are giving him an "incomplete" for now. That's fair, and skepticism about prospects is fair.

What's not fair is pretending #1 prospect pool is utterly meaningless given it was literally league worst when Blake took over (have you not seen/participated in the many, many, many threads criticizing Kings drafting and development) while simultaneously criticizing everything else that's happened since and ignoring the context.

I just think it's hypocritical to be dismissive of that while complaining that we didn't rebuild immediately. Mad that we didn't rebuild, mad that we're rebuilding. Damned if he did, damned if he didn't. And in some cases it's extra bad because if the name were anything instead of "Blake" there would be a different opinon.

 

[BigKing]

Then I'm not talking to you, because you recognize the position, and are giving him an "incomplete" for now. That's fair, and skepticism about prospects is fair.

What's not fair is pretending #1 prospect pool is utterly meaningless given it was literally league worst when Blake took over (have you not seen/participated in the many, many, many threads criticizing Kings drafting and development) while simultaneously criticizing everything else that's happened since and ignoring the context.

I just think it's hypocritical to be dismissive of that while complaining that we didn't rebuild immediately. Mad that we didn't rebuild, mad that we're rebuilding. Damned if he did, damned if he didn't. And in some cases it's extra bad because if the name were anything instead of "Blake" there would be a different opinon.

I think any first time NHL GM that proves themselves to be so wrong about the state of the franchise and roster is going to catch heat. Said GM will catch more heat if he is following in the footsteps of the best GM in the history of the franchise--regardless of that GM's horrible final years--and is also an extremely polarizing former player of the team he is taking over.

I just don't think it is hypocritical to critique him poorly for not realizing they needed a full rebuild until it smacked him in the face even if the prospect pool is immensely better than it was when he took over. The fact that it is ranked #1 in some circles does not take away the fact that he was wrong and that the pool could be even stronger, leading to the rebuild being accelerated. That said, yes, credit is due for what appears to be good drafting.

The idea that they couldn't rebuild from the start because you couldn't trade guys is false because we've already seen Muzzin, Pearson and Clifford moved. Toffoli and Martinez are probably next. Now, would there have been an outcry if he started moving guys then and they immediately went in to a tank mode? Sure there would have been. Doughty also probably says he isn't coming back but, then again, there is a big trade chip as the rental of all rentals. There would have been an outcry but we have one on our hands anyways as we didn't get to maximize values, wasted a year and are looking at a second straight next-to-last place finish regardless. There are some nice names in that 2018 draft Top 15 that I'd rather have than Kupari. Quinn Hughes? That would be a sweet addition.

So, yes, damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. I don't care if he is going to catch heat either way: I just want the right decision. It is fair to criticize him for being wrong while also saying that they've appeared to draft well but, lo and behold, that prospect pool ranking is pretty much based on the 2019 draft: the one where they sucked enough to get high picks and assets were moved for additional picks. Would be nice to be a year closer so we can squeeze the most out of Kopitar--and Doughty if he stuck around--as possible.

While I have always thought Blake had a long leash--especially after being able to give T-Mac a five year deal--I am shockingly agreeing somewhat with tomd that AEG patience is going to wear thin if next season looks like this one again. Barring Lafreniere, there is a real good chance that it does. While a talent upgrade is desperately needed, a desire upgrade is almost more important at this point.

 

[Choralone]

So no matter what, we can always go back and say we would have been even better if Blake had started a full rebuild one year earlier. We can hold that over his head forever. Would getting a cup even assuage that, or will we argue he could have had two cups, et al, and blast him until our dying days? Just wondering when I have permission to say Blake is doing well....

 

[lumbergh]

So no matter what, we can always go back and say we would have been even better if Blake had started a full rebuild one year earlier. We can hold that over his head forever. Would getting a cup even assuage that, or will we argue he could have had two cups, et al, and blast him until our dying days? Just wondering when I have permission to say Blake is doing well....

I'll be happy when the Kings put an entertaining product on the ice. You know, maybe score more than one goal a game. Even better when they make the playoffs again. That would be swell.

 

[Choralone]

I'll be happy when the Kings put an entertaining product on the ice. You know, maybe score more than one goal a game. Even better when they make the playoffs again. That would be swell.

Makes sense. Although I'm ready to have a supremely unentertaining team for the at least another year if it were to ensure a good playoff team down the road. That said, there's no guaranteeing of course that sucking will result in success.

I mean, I'll just do what I do now: watch infrequently and turn the channel if sucking rears its Lisa Rinna lips, but management tolerates empty seats only for so long...

 

[Vamos Rafa]

Blake inherited Kopi and Doughty who are still relatively in their prime. You don't want a full rebuild with those players with big contracts. You want to surround them with a with a win-now roster. DL had the luxury of having both of those players in their teens/early 20s al patience was easier to possess for him. Blake doesn't have that luxury and he knows that Kopi and Doughty will easily run out of patience and demand trades.

 

[KINGS17]

I think any first time NHL GM that proves themselves to be so wrong about the state of the franchise and roster is going to catch heat. Said GM will catch more heat if he is following in the footsteps of the best GM in the history of the franchise--regardless of that GM's horrible final years--and is also an extremely polarizing former player of the team he is taking over.

I just don't think it is hypocritical to critique him poorly for not realizing they needed a full rebuild until it smacked him in the face even if the prospect pool is immensely better than it was when he took over. The fact that it is ranked #1 in some circles does not take away the fact that he was wrong and that the pool could be even stronger, leading to the rebuild being accelerated. That said, yes, credit is due for what appears to be good drafting.

The idea that they couldn't rebuild from the start because you couldn't trade guys is false because we've already seen Muzzin, Pearson and Clifford moved. Toffoli and Martinez are probably next. Now, would there have been an outcry if he started moving guys then and they immediately went in to a tank mode? Sure there would have been. Doughty also probably says he isn't coming back but, then again, there is a big trade chip as the rental of all rentals. There would have been an outcry but we have one on our hands anyways as we didn't get to maximize values, wasted a year and are looking at a second straight next-to-last place finish regardless. There are some nice names in that 2018 draft Top 15 that I'd rather have than Kupari. Quinn Hughes? That would be a sweet addition.

So, yes, damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. I don't care if he is going to catch heat either way: I just want the right decision. It is fair to criticize him for being wrong while also saying that they've appeared to draft well but, lo and behold, that prospect pool ranking is pretty much based on the 2019 draft: the one where they sucked enough to get high picks and assets were moved for additional picks. Would be nice to be a year closer so we can squeeze the most out of Kopitar--and Doughty if he stuck around--as possible.

While I have always thought Blake had a long leash--especially after being able to give T-Mac a five year deal--I am shockingly agreeing somewhat with tomd that AEG patience is going to wear thin if next season looks like this one again. Barring Lafreniere, there is a real good chance that it does. While a talent upgrade is desperately needed, a desire upgrade is almost more important at this point.

We may never fully understand the opportunity cost of not starting the rebuild at the appropriate time. Some like to point out, "What did the Kings lose by keeping (insert name of player who should have been traded, but wasn't)." The point is not what the Kings lost (BTW, the answer is time), but what they didn't gain.

Being lucky enough to draft Lafreniere would certainly help to solve this problem and advance the process. Hell, it might even get Doughy excited enough to actually get in shape and show up ready to play next season.

 

[KINGS17]

Blake inherited Kopi and Doughty who are still relatively in their prime. You don't want a full rebuild with those players with big contracts. You want to surround them with a with a win-now roster. DL had the luxury of having both of those players in their teens/early 20s al patience was easier to possess for him. Blake doesn't have that luxury and he knows that Kopi and Doughty will easily run out of patience and demand trades.

I will be shocked if Kopitar ever demands a trade. Starting to feel the same way with Doughty.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Then I'm not talking to you, because you recognize the position, and are giving him an "incomplete" for now. That's fair, and skepticism about prospects is fair.

What's not fair is pretending #1 prospect pool is utterly meaningless given it was literally league worst when Blake took over (have you not seen/participated in the many, many, many threads criticizing Kings drafting and development) while simultaneously criticizing everything else that's happened since and ignoring the context.

I just think it's hypocritical to be dismissive of that while complaining that we didn't rebuild immediately. Mad that we didn't rebuild, mad that we're rebuilding. Damned if he did, damned if he didn't. And in some cases it's extra bad because if the name were anything instead of "Blake" there would be a different opinon.

I guess my stance is more nuanced. The only thing I really criticize Blake for is believing this team was a contender in 2017 and selling the fanbase a bill of goods.

I don’t think the #1 prospect pool is irrelevant. It’s just difficult to place any definitive value on a prospect pool until those players start making (or not making) an impact at the NHL level. It’s a good start, for sure. But in my opinion, the most difficult part of a rebuild is that second act, when some of these vaunted prospects don’t pan out as expected and you need to make fast audibles, or you realize the team is still missing something, etc.

I mean, look at a team like Buffalo. They’ve had a highly rated prospect pool for years and still can’t make the playoffs.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I guess my stance is more nuanced. The only thing I really criticize Blake for is believing this team was a contender in 2017 and selling the fanbase a bill of goods.

I don’t think the #1 prospect pool is irrelevant. It’s just difficult to place any definitive value on a prospect pool until those players start making (or not making) an impact at the NHL level. It’s a good start, for sure. But in my opinion, the most difficult part of a rebuild is that second act, when some of these vaunted prospects don’t pan out as expected and you need to make fast audibles, or you realize the team is still missing something, etc.

I mean, look at a team like Buffalo. They’ve had a highly rated prospect pool for years and still can’t make the playoffs.

-100% agreed on the 2nd-step theory. What happens next matters most. That's the reason for my "I" grade.

There are plenty of examples, too. Buffalo is one. Edmonton is another. Yet were any of those teams ever really on 'top' of the prospect rankings except during one offseason with a generational pick in their back pockets? Those are teams that suck at drafting beyond the 1st; we've actually been excellent at it.

I guess I'm more taking issue with people who want to give him an F for 'misreading*' the team and then give him another F for starting the rebuild a year late. AKA there's nothing he can do after that initial misread to get back in the black. And I say that as a guy who doesn't particularly care about Blake one way or another, I just think he gets a bad rap (as a GM) and no benefit of the doubt for no real reason.


*Which goes back to the idea that even though the result was wrong the philosophy was sound--taking a team with Hart/Selke, Norris finalists and a rejuvenated quick, 1st in PK, 1st in defense, and adding a scorer. It collapsed in spectacular manner, but there are a whole lot of people deliberately ignoring the 'why,' and I would also argue it does signal that when Blake sees a contender, he's ready to make moves to push them over the top, like the rumored Pacioretty deal (and we should be glad they didn't happen, just like we were ultimately glad DL swing and missed on Chara, B Richards, etc.).


I think he's taking an absolute beating for some things he has no control over, a rightful critique on at least one thing he did (Kovalchuk/contender saga), but is also getting little to no credit for the prospect pool, good little moves (Muzzin), and lack of sunk cost fallacy (cammy sucked so moving him for jokinen etc).

 

[BigKing]

So no matter what, we can always go back and say we would have been even better if Blake had started a full rebuild one year earlier. We can hold that over his head forever. Would getting a cup even assuage that, or will we argue he could have had two cups, et al, and blast him until our dying days? Just wondering when I have permission to say Blake is doing well....

You can say he's doing well now if you want but it will be argued with. No big deal. Many of us didn't think Dean was doing well either even as he was putting together a top rated prospect pool and, really, he wasn't doing good enough until he made his final coach hire and traded youth for proven commodities.

These prospects will be a huge determining factor in how good Blake is as a GM but he will also have to be able to add the pieces to push them over the top since there is zero chance of some fully homegrown Cup roster. I'm skeptical he has the second part in him but we won't know for sure until he gets the chance, just like we don't know if this top rated prospect pool is worth a damn yet.

Winning a Cup would make it all worthwhile, although he'll be a piece of shit if he sucks as a GM after that. Again, I hope he winds up the best GM in the history of the Kings. I want to celebrate Cups more than I want to enjoy shitting on Blake.

 

[Jericho111091]

It's entirely possible that he's the problem but he hasn't been in charge long enough to say that definitively. Gotta give him some more time

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

-100% agreed on the 2nd-step theory. What happens next matters most. That's the reason for my "I" grade.

There are plenty of examples, too. Buffalo is one. Edmonton is another. Yet were any of those teams ever really on 'top' of the prospect rankings except during one offseason with a generational pick in their back pockets? Those are teams that suck at drafting beyond the 1st; we've actually been excellent at it.

I guess I'm more taking issue with people who want to give him an F for 'misreading*' the team and then give him another F for starting the rebuild a year late. AKA there's nothing he can do after that initial misread to get back in the black. And I say that as a guy who doesn't particularly care about Blake one way or another, I just think he gets a bad rap (as a GM) and no benefit of the doubt for no real reason.


*Which goes back to the idea that even though the result was wrong the philosophy was sound--taking a team with Hart/Selke, Norris finalists and a rejuvenated quick, 1st in PK, 1st in defense, and adding a scorer. It collapsed in spectacular manner, but there are a whole lot of people deliberately ignoring the 'why,' and I would also argue it does signal that when Blake sees a contender, he's ready to make moves to push them over the top, like the rumored Pacioretty deal (and we should be glad they didn't happen, just like we were ultimately glad DL swing and missed on Chara, B Richards, etc.).


I think he's taking an absolute beating for some things he has no control over, a rightful critique on at least one thing he did (Kovalchuk/contender saga), but is also getting little to no credit for the prospect pool, good little moves (Muzzin), and lack of sunk cost fallacy (cammy sucked so moving him for jokinen etc).

People can't see the forest for the trees, they would rather be pissed and miserable, than understand.

I know they aren't, but man it seems like they are new to Pro Sports in general and how sports teams operate, might not be fair to say it, but that is absolutely how they are acting.

 

[YP44]

It's entirely possible that he's the problem but he hasn't been in charge long enough to say that definitively. Gotta give him some more time

this

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

It’s refreshing to see a majority of the posters here are more sensible than the common folk who sit in section 304 and yell at everyone to shoot.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

I will be shocked if Kopitar ever demands a trade. Starting to feel the same way with Doughty.

It won't be shocking if it's Doughty. Before he signed the contract, he made it very clear that he wants to win another Cup.

As for Kopi, he should be motivated to win another one this time as a captain. They should pressure the front office to fix this team immediately.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

They should pressure the front office to fix this team immediately.

I'm curious to know how you think this team can be fixed immediately....I mean if all it takes is some pressure from Kopitar or Doughty, let's get this going!

 

[KINGS17]

It won't be shocking if it's Doughty. Before he signed the contract, he made it very clear that he wants to win another Cup.

As for Kopi, he should be motivated to win another one this time as a captain. They should pressure the front office to fix this team immediately.

I don't this roster can be fixed immediately.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You can say he's doing well now if you want but it will be argued with. No big deal. Many of us didn't think Dean was doing well either even as he was putting together a top rated prospect pool and, really, he wasn't doing good enough until he made his final coach hire and traded youth for proven commodities.

These prospects will be a huge determining factor in how good Blake is as a GM but he will also have to be able to add the pieces to push them over the top since there is zero chance of some fully homegrown Cup roster. I'm skeptical he has the second part in him but we won't know for sure until he gets the chance, just like we don't know if this top rated prospect pool is worth a damn yet.

Winning a Cup would make it all worthwhile, although he'll be a piece of **** if he sucks as a GM after that. Again, I hope he winds up the best GM in the history of the Kings. I want to celebrate Cups more than I want to enjoy ****ting on Blake.

Kind of true, but let's check out that timeline.

DL was hired in April '06. his first three seasons were 68, 71, 79 points. He had a young Kopitar, Cammalleri, Frolov, a near prime Visnovsky, some other assets. Made some silly signings in Cloutier, etc.

As I recall, this board didn't really start giving him a rough ride until they started taking a step back in 2012. There was some grumbling after the 2010 playoffs, and a little bit more after 2011 due to depth after Kopitar went down, but by and large, he was getting a vote of confidence. And were largely on board with the rebuild in those first three awful years.


Blake was hired in April '17. He hasn't even hit three seasons yet--but hit 98 and 71 points (and pacing for worse than DL's first year this year). He has a just out of prime Kopitar, Doughty, etc. and some good but depreciating assets. Made a silly signing in Kovalchuk. Not all that different maybe other than the first year being competitive. This board was giving him a rough ride almost out of the gate, and upon the Kovalchuk signing. This board has definitely done nothing but complain through the rebuild, which is about similar to DL's first two years. And we probably won't be even somewhat out of the woods until after next year unless the pool goes unexpectedly nuclear, so I doubt those complaints will stop.


They inherited completely different situations and expectations, but have arrived at a somewhat similar spot in year 2.5. But one was getting supported, while one is mostly getting blasted. And therein lies the crux of my complaint: do people want to rebuild or not? Because it sounds like some people just want to piss about Blake.

 

[The Tikkanen]

I agree with the point you are making, but MacDermid, Joakim Ryan, Grundstrom who I believe was just called up, and Prokhorin who was sitting?

Stretching a bit....

Just giving out last 10 stats on players who have played 10( I was setting my Draft Kings lineup doing research). I like Prohorkin and don't expect MacD to score goals but when you have this many players not scoring goals there is a problem.

 

[Bandit]

It’s refreshing to see a majority of the posters here are more sensible than the common folk who sit in section 304 and yell at everyone to shoot.

Everyone does shoot, that's not the problem. They should be yelling "score".

 

[KINGS17]

Then I'm not talking to you, because you recognize the position, and are giving him an "incomplete" for now. That's fair, and skepticism about prospects is fair.

What's not fair is pretending #1 prospect pool is utterly meaningless given it was literally league worst when Blake took over (have you not seen/participated in the many, many, many threads criticizing Kings drafting and development) while simultaneously criticizing everything else that's happened since and ignoring the context.

I just think it's hypocritical to be dismissive of that while complaining that we didn't rebuild immediately. Mad that we didn't rebuild, mad that we're rebuilding. Damned if he did, damned if he didn't. And in some cases it's extra bad because if the name were anything instead of "Blake" there would be a different opinon.