Former Bruins Is Ray Bourque a Top 10 All-Time Player?

[Dennis Bonvie]

He has the most all-star selections of any player, ever.

He was top-four in Norris voting 19 years out of the 21 he played. I would also argue, he did that during one of the hardest eras for defencemen.

Chelios, Coffey, Stevens, MacInnis, Leetch, all stud number one defenceman

Gordie Howe has the most all-star selections with 21. Bourque had 19.

Bourque had the most first team selections, 13-12 over Gordie.

Here is my thing with the greatness of Ray Borque.

He was 40, 40!!!!!!

When he posted his cup season and 7g-52a on a stacked Avs squad.

Players should be rated among their piers, and for me that means other defenseman.

Orr
Potvin
Bourque
Park
Lidstrom
Chara
Shore
Coffee

Should include Doug Harvey, considered by many second only to Orr.

 

[jgatie]

Ray was a great, great player. I don't have him in my top ten, though.

I'm sure some stats freak might beg to differ, and I'd actually like to know where he stands stats wise in the pantheon of NHL greats.

He has more points than any other defenseman in history.

 

[EverettMike]

It's funny/crazy to think Bourque is only the second best defenseman in Bruins history (behind Eddie Shore).

 

[RoccoF14]

I've been watching since the 60's and I have to say No.

To this day, I still don't know how to rank Bourque/Park or Park/Bourque.

Park finished runner up in the Norris voting 8 times almost exclusively because of Bobby Orr. Had it not been for Orr, I think most people would look at Park differently.

1000% dead on correct.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

It's funny/crazy to think Bourque is only the second best defenseman in Bruins history (behind Eddie Shore).

Yes, it is crazy to think that.

 

[EverettMike]

Yes, it is crazy to think that.

I know. How many organizations would he be the best player in team history period? He's not even the best at his position in Bruins history.

Eddie Shore was a beast, though. Multi-time MVP is hard to argue with.

 

[smithformeragent]

I remember checking out a hockey picture book from my elementary school library when I was in 1st grade.

I brought it home to show my dad and the caption below one of the photos said “Ray Bork”.

My dad was pissed.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I know. How many organizations would he be the best player in team history period? He's not even the best at his position in Bruins history.

Eddie Shore was a beast, though. Multi-time MVP is hard to argue with.

I was thinking more in terms of crazy to consider Bourque & Shore better than Bobby Orr.

 

[EverettMike]

I was thinking more in terms of crazy to consider Bourque & Shore better than Bobby Orr.

Watered down league, blew an un-losable series to our rivals that cost us a Cup, couldn't stay healthy.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Watered down league, blew an un-losable series to our rivals that cost us a Cup, couldn't stay healthy.

And the greatest player to ever play the game.

 

[EverettMike]

And the greatest player to ever play the game.

Agree to disagree!

 

[LouJersey]

I've been watching since the 60's and I have to say No.

To this day, I still don't know how to rank Bourque/Park or Park/Bourque.

Park finished runner up in the Norris voting 8 times almost exclusively because of Bobby Orr. Had it not been for Orr, I think most people would look at Park differently.

He was my first favorite player. One of the more underrated players I think there are when mentioning all time greats.

 

[chizzler]

You need to have watched a lot of hockey to say he’s in the top 10. Too many players. Different eras. I certainly can’t vote on this.

 

[Gee Wally]

My grandfather was born in 1900. Passed in 1993.Saw all 3. He had them rated Orr, Shore , Bourque.

He was lucky to have seen them all.

 

[GordonHowe]

He has more points than any other defenseman in history.

He may.

Points are not everything. Nor fancy stats.

I love Ray. That's not the issue.

He was a great player in his era. I do not see him in the NHL ten best of all time.

That is an extremely elite group.

FWIW.

 

[mar2kbos]

Much like others have said, all time players No, all time defenseman yes.

If there was a top 10 workhorse award Bourque would certainly but close to 1. He played on average teams with below average defense units. He played tons of minutes and was the target every game since no one else in the defense units were any good but him.

 

[Bradely]

Bourque played at a high level for so long.... longevity is on his side. IMO not a charismatic player... but one of the best all time that I've seen hockey. IMO he is an underrated player.... that tells alot

 

[HooperDrivesTheBoat]

“Pound for pound Mario Lemieux was the most talented player I have seen play the game. Was he the best? Based on the criteria most use, no he wasn't.”

Quoting Dom here.

All very objective, but 100% agree that Lemieux was the most talented player I’ve ever seen, and I would put him over Gretzky. Sacrilege, I know, but with these now aged eyes, Lemieux was a better hockey player than Gretzky. Again, just my opinion and I’m sure the numbers will prove me wrong, but Mario was the best hockey player I’ve ever seen. Too bad I learned to hate him as a Pens exec. Protecting Matt Cooke brought him down a few pegs.

 

[GordonHowe]

Bourque (and Neely) is the reason I’m a Bruins fan so there is no way for me to give an unbiased answer. I personally think that, other than Gretzky and Mario, he was the best player on the ice most nights during the 80’s and 90’s. Again, certainly biased, but he was just incredible to watch.

That being said, and to piggyback on what Fenian wrote, I can only judge the players I’ve actually seen play many times. Using those parameters (since I began watching in mid-80’s), Bourque is absolutely top-5 during that era and THE best defenseman. Better than Leetch, Coffey, Lidstrom, etc. The guy rarely made a mistake with the puck and put up incredible numbers. It was amazing to watch.

Yet again, I love Ray, but Nick Lidstrom was very much in his league.

I'm not one of them, but many would say Nick was as good or better than Raymond.

 

[KrejciMVP]

probably top 20 but his slap shot was feared by everyone

 

[Johnny4778]

To me Bourque was the best dman in his era… take him over Coffey any day of the week. Bourque on the Oilers in the 1980’s is probably a 2000 point dman for his career. Do not agree with anyone that says Lidstrum was close to Bourque. Watched both their entire careers… wouldn’t take two Lidstrums for one Bourque. End of story.

Bourque is damn close on top 5 Dman all time. Definitely top 10. Having said that there were things that Bourque did like keeping the puck in at the point and slot selection that were as good as anyone that ever played the game.

 

[HooperDrivesTheBoat]

Yet again, I love Ray, but Nick Lidstrom was very much in his league.

I'm not one of them, but many would say Nick was as good or better than Raymond.

I respect everything that you wrote. Lidstrom is one of the best, no doubt. The numbers don’t lie.

I’m just too biased. I’m an unreliable reporter when it comes to Bourque. He was, to me, the perfect hockey player. He could do no wrong. I’m sure he made mistakes, but it wasn’t as obvious as when a Galley or Wesley messed up. Ray would mess up and fix it right away. He was a bulldog.

 

[GordonHowe]

“Pound for pound Mario Lemieux was the most talented player I have seen play the game. Was he the best? Based on the criteria most use, no he wasn't.”

Quoting Dom here.

All very objective, but 100% agree that Lemieux was the most talented player I’ve ever seen, and I would put him over Gretzky. Sacrilege, I know, but with these now aged eyes, Lemieux was a better hockey player than Gretzky. Again, just my opinion and I’m sure the numbers will prove me wrong, but Mario was the best hockey player I’ve ever seen. Too bad I learned to hate him as a Pens exec. Protecting Matt Cooke brought him down a few pegs.

Lemieux was great, the greatest of his era. Jagr was very good, too.

Gretzky was great, obviously.

But none of the above were, to me, complete players. I'll take a 200 ft., three zone, defensively and offensively responsble player over the goal scorers and fancy Dan's.

Gordie was that way. Ted Lindsay was that way.

Jean Bealiveau. Doug Harvey. Red Kelly. Bob Gainey. Patrice. Brad. Raymond. Chris Kelly. Ron Francis. Joe Sakic. Larry Robinson. Serge Savard. Bobby. Denis Potvin. Brian Trottier. Uncle Milty. John Bucyk. Stan Mikita. Nick Lidstrom. Andy Bathgate. Jean Ratelle. Mark Messier. Börje Salming. Dave Keon. Darryl Sittler. Steve Yzerman, et. al.

Haven't even scratched the surface.

These players, and so many more, all possessed great skill, intelligence, and a desire to be complete players.

They're the ones I admire most.

I respect everything that you wrote. Lidstrom is one of the best, no doubt. The numbers don’t lie.

I’m just too biased. I’m an unreliable reporter when it comes to Bourque. He was, to me, the perfect hockey player. He could do no wrong. I’m sure he made mistskes, but it wasn’t as obvious as when a Galley or Wesley messed up. Ray would mess up and fix it right away. He was a bulldog.

100%

 

[22Brad Park]

Ray is all time leading scorer for D men so he gets my vote cause that holds serious weight with over 1500 pts

 

[EverettMike]

“Pound for pound Mario Lemieux was the most talented player I have seen play the game. Was he the best? Based on the criteria most use, no he wasn't.”

Quoting Dom here.

All very objective, but 100% agree that Lemieux was the most talented player I’ve ever seen, and I would put him over Gretzky. Sacrilege, I know, but with these now aged eyes, Lemieux was a better hockey player than Gretzky. Again, just my opinion and I’m sure the numbers will prove me wrong, but Mario was the best hockey player I’ve ever seen. Too bad I learned to hate him as a Pens exec. Protecting Matt Cooke brought him down a few pegs.

Sometimes former players, even the ones you thought were the best both on and off the ice, do something so egregious it makes you rethink everything you ever thought of them.