Is Quinn Hughes overrated?

[Pavel Buchnevich]

this isn't based in reality. at all. you're just claiming stuff that isn't even accurate. here's a glimpse of his last year's numbers:

Truth By Numbers: Quinn Hughes becoming one of the NHL's best defencemen - Sportsnet.ca

but super fun "i told you so" post ? aren't you in bed for his games? I'm wondering where your assessment is coming from.

I've heard about the numbers. You tweak them very slightly they show he's among the most sheltered players in the league last season. I'm sure they looked better last season, as well, when he was playing better. He's not at the top of his game, but there's some middle ground. I don't know how someone could seriously try to claim he's anything but at least a below-average defensive player. He's potentially worse than below-average. Right now, there can't be more than a handful or two players in the league who are worse at playing defense. I would say the middle ground is that he's firmly bad defensively, but that can be mitigated, like last season by sheltering him a lot and putting him with a defensive partner who'll play like an NFL safety.

 

[Voight]

Top 5 in points is great, but those points come at a cost.

Unfortunately that cost is having zero commitment to anything resembling a defensive game. As of today, he's a complete liability in his own zone.

He's also played less than 100 games, give him time to become a betetr defensive player. Regardless, his offensive prowess puts his team in a position to win. (yes I realize they have been very bad this year; one player can't carry a team)

 

[joe dirte]

View attachment 394375

Seems good.

Sure, but as I'm sure you already know, he's been a turnstile on the other end of the ice. The Canucks lead the league in goals against, and he contributes to that (so far, this year).

 

[Critical13]

Sure, but as I'm sure you already know, he's been a turnstile on the other end of the ice. The Canucks lead the league in goals against, and he contributes to that (so far, this year).

Honestly, with a defenceman as good as him, I think you can live with some defensive lapses.

It's not like he's being paired with Charlie McAvoy, with the Bergeron line up front. He's not getting help.

He has some insane offensive upside, and I can live with sheltering him a bit if he is creating like that.

 

[hockeydog23]

you need to watch a canuck's game.

he didn't have as good as a team as Makar last year.

he could use a partner like tanev.

both those statements can be true.

what's obnoxious is thinking the entire fan base promoted him over Makar. every fanbase has rose coloured glasses fans. the most felt makar had an edge, but the gap wasn't as big as everyone is claiming. (and this is what is constantly being argued, like in this thread)

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Hughes is great as a 2nd pairing playmaking rover. He just needs to be shelter his entire career, unless there will be dramatic improvements in his overall game.

 

[joe dirte]

Honestly, with a defenceman as good as him, I think you can live with some defensive lapses.

It's not like he's being paired with Charlie McAvoy, with the Bergeron line up front. He's not getting help.

He has some insane offensive upside, and I can live with sheltering him a bit if he is creating like that.

No doubt hes good. Many here seem to ignore defensive issues completely because of points though. Id take one of the dmen with 10 points that doesnt come with defensive issues over a 17 point turnstile any day.

But its early and he wasnt this bad last year, so im sure he will rebound.

The idea that hes overated comes from the people that ignore his defensive issues and glowingly rave about his points. The posters that claim hes overated are just pointing out that despite his obvious offensive talents, hes very flawed as a dman.

 

[avsfan9]

He's also played less than 100 games, give him time to become a betetr defensive player. Regardless, his offensive prowess puts his team in a position to win. (yes I realize they have been very bad this year; one player can't carry a team)

Last year he was the second coming of Bobby Orr, now this year we have to excuse him because it’s his second year in the league and he’s very young. No one is denying his talents , he is a special player and will get better with age but he’s nowhere near what people were claiming him to be. To be up there top 10 in scoring for a d man is an insane accomplishment but he’s sacrificing defense for offense and that is ok just don’t expect him to be in Norris discussions for the best defensman in the league.

 

[joe dirte]

No one is denying his talents , he is a special player and will get better with age but he’s nowhere near what people were claiming him to be. To be up there top 10 in scoring for a d man is an insane accomplishment but he’s sacrificing defense for offense and that is ok just don’t expect him to be in Norris discussions for the best defensman in the league.

Based on events of the last decade i suspect some will disagree.

 

[Romkey]

As someone who has seen Hughes' last 3 games, he is not overrated. He's an excellent offensive dman who needs to learn to be a little more relaxed in his own zone. The biggest issue I've noticed is he plays with garbage partners, he needs a good stay at home partner who can actually get the puck out when he goes D-to-D behind the net. Hughes will win a Norris in his career, and I wish the Leafs had a guy like him (Rielly is close but Hughes is going to be a tier above)

 

[Critical13]

No doubt hes good. Many here seem to ignore defensive issues completely because of points though. Id take one of the dmen with 10 points that doesnt come with defensive issues over a 17 point turnstile any day.

But its early and he wasnt this bad last year, so im sure he will rebound.

The idea that hes overated comes from the people that ignore his defensive issues and glowingly rave about his points. The posters that claim hes overated are just pointing out that despite his obvious offensive talents, hes very flawed as a dman.

Who is overrating him? No one here is calling him Lidstrom.

He's one of the best young defencemen in the game. It's not his fault that Benning got rid of his partner and also his goalie.

It's like the people complaining about Ovechkin's D - you live with it because what he does offensively is far more difficult to find.

Hughes is being blamed in this thread because Benning has replaced Tanev with Chatfield and lost a true #1 goalie and now the group as a whole can't defend.

You are a B's fan, right? You've been spoiled with elite defensive forwards, and with Carlo and McAvoy stepping in and playing NHL calibre defence. Not every D prospect can do that.

 

[joe dirte]

Who is overrating him? No one here is calling him Lidstrom.

He's one of the best young defencemen in the game. It's not his fault that Benning got rid of his partner and also his goalie.

It's like the people complaining about Ovechkin's D - you live with it because what he does offensively is far more difficult to find.

Hughes is being blamed in this thread because Benning has replaced Tanev with Chatfield and lost a true #1 goalie and now the group as a whole can't defend.

You are a B's fan, right? You've been spoiled with elite defensive forwards, and with Carlo and McAvoy stepping in and playing NHL calibre defence. Not every D prospect can do that.

No, I'm not, I'm a Leafs fan. I'm not blaming him for anything. In fact, I've pointed out, elsewhere, that his defensive stats last year were decent. I'm not really sure if he was decent or not, I'm just going by stats, I didn't see much of him last year. It's just 10 games into this season.

I'm not blaming him for anything. All i'm saying is, despite parts of his game that are obviously top notch, there are parts that look very bad (at least, so far this year). You seem to want to just brush aside defensive deficiencies, if someone scores points. There is nothing wrong with recognizing them, scoring points doesn't make them disappear. We don't know what he'll eventually be, but it's not unfair to say that, to this point, this season, what he has been is phenomenal offensively, and a train wreck defensively. It's not bashing him, it's just the assessment of him.

And what I was alluding to, is the people who will comment on him being overrated, are probably seeing posts, like yours, that seemingly ignore, or brush off, that he's been bad defensively. You can't just brush that off.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

His play driving and defensive ineptitude this season have been positively Jack Johnsonian, despite his awesome offensive production.

Thats going a little too far. Maybe by the numbers, but Hughes is messing up trying to make plays for his team. Johnson's ineptitude is an incredible form where it's almost like he works for the other team, and makes it 6 on 4. Pens fans can back me up on this. Between his untimely penalties, inability to ever tie up a stick near the net, screening the goalie, shooting so far wide it leads to the puck immediately going the other way, losses of balance at the most inopportune times, it's staggering how bad of an impact he has on the team.

Before you see it, you can't properly estimate the impact. It's not even that he can't skate or move the puck out of his zone, like a lot of defensive defensemen. He's not even that terrible at those parts of the game. It's everything else that a defensemen who adds nothing positive offensively could do wrong to create issues for his team. I don't know if I've seen a player in the NHL with worse hockey sense than Johnson. His ability to make good decisions is about as low as it gets for a player in the NHL.

 

[Freudian]

A Quinn Hughes hat-trick: A secondary assist, -1 and a post on HF about how he's overrated.

 

[BigHitter67]

A Quinn Hughes hat-trick: A secondary assist, -1 and a post on HF about how he's overrated.

A Quinn Hughes hat-trick: A secondary assist 0n the PP, defensive zone turnover for a -1 and a post on HF about how he's overrated ,compared to Makar.

There. Fixed it for ya

 

[Critical13]

No, I'm not, I'm a Leafs fan. I'm not blaming him for anything. In fact, I've pointed out, elsewhere, that his defensive stats last year were decent. I'm not really sure if he was decent or not, I'm just going by stats, I didn't see much of him last year. It's just 10 games into this season.

I'm not blaming him for anything. All i'm saying is, despite parts of his game that are obviously top notch, there are parts that look very bad (at least, so far this year). You seem to want to just brush aside defensive deficiencies, if someone scores points. There is nothing wrong with recognizing them, scoring points doesn't make them disappear. We don't know what he'll eventually be, but it's not unfair to say that, to this point, this season, what he has been is phenomenal offensively, and a train wreck defensively. It's not bashing him, it's just the assessment of him.

And what I was alluding to, is the people who will comment on him being overrated, are probably seeing posts, like yours, that seemingly ignore, or brush off, that he's been bad defensively. You can't just brush that off.

That doesn't make any sense. He's not overrated because some of us are willing to accept his flaws and embrace his immense offensive upside. You are needlessly conflating.

No one is calling him good defensively. Many young, offensively gifted players also struggle defensively. If he was good defensively, we would be talking about him being a Norris front runner this year, but we aren't. We are saying he's a very good young defenceman who's flaws are an acceptable risk given his offensive upside.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

This is Brent Burns all over again except Hughes doesnt have the size nor beard to intimidate players.

 

[Love]

Honestly, with a defenceman as good as him, I think you can live with some defensive lapses.

It's not like he's being paired with Charlie McAvoy, with the Bergeron line up front. He's not getting help.

He has some insane offensive upside, and I can live with sheltering him a bit if he is creating like that.

I agree. Hughes obviously needs to play better defensively (and he can, as we saw last season and especially in the playoffs) but what would be ideal for him at this stage of his career is a defence partner like Tanev which he doesn’t have anymore. Jordie Benn just doesn’t cut it.

As for the +/- thing... people are so weird with that stat here. Sometimes it means nothing and sometimes in means everything. I guess it just depends on what point you’re trying to make, but you should at least try to be consistent.

Anyway you’d be hard pressed to find an elite defenceman who hasn’t had a season or two with horrible plus/minus. Pretty sure Doughty was like -35 a couple years ago. Karlsson has had lots of poor plus/minus seasons. It happens. And it says more about the team they’re on than than anything else.

 

[Critical13]

This is Brent Burns all over again except Hughes doesnt have the size nor beard to intimidate players.

Exactly like Brent Burns except for the fact they are almost opposites outside of their labels of "Offensive defenceman".

 

[joe dirte]

That doesn't make any sense. He's not overrated because some of us are willing to accept his flaws and embrace his immense offensive upside. You are needlessly conflating.

No one is calling him good defensively. Many young, offensively gifted players also struggle defensively. If he was good defensively, we would be talking about him being a Norris front runner this year, but we aren't. We are saying he's a very good young defenceman who's flaws are an acceptable risk given his offensive upside.

Some of your posts seem to brush them aside, moreso than "accept them". I've seen lists including him as a top 10 dman in the NHL. That similarly seems to brush aside his deficiencies.

I do'nt disagree that he has high potential, but he'll have to address his flaws, if he truly wants to be a top dman in the NHL (at least from what I've seen, THIS year) All that remains to be seen. He's still young, he's got time to improve.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Quinn Hughes is just 89 games into his NHL career, plus a post-season run last year, I feel people need to keep that in mind. If media/fans think he'll win the Norris Trophy this year, then they should temper expectations. He's still learning the defensive side of the game at the NHL-level, like any other d-man of the 2018 draft; I think it's fair to say that none of them are at their peak. Rasmus Dahlin was touted as a generational d-man and he's still developing also. For example, Victor Hedman took a few years to round out his game before he became a Norris Trophy caliber d-man.

Tyler Myers never topped his rookie season either. People tend to forget that progression is not guaranteed.

 

[Critical13]

Some of your posts seem to brush them aside, moreso than "accept them". I've seen lists including him as a top 10 dman in the NHL. That similarly seems to brush aside his deficiencies.

I do'nt disagree that he has high potential, but he'll have to address his flaws, if he truly wants to be a top dman in the NHL (at least from what I've seen, THIS year) All that remains to be seen. He's still young, he's got time to improve.

I don't know how to say this any more clearly: we know he has defensive struggles. We still think he's an elite talent.

How many defencemen right now have the skillset to put up PPG?

Benning needs to surround a player like that with players to balance his flaws and use his game breaking skill properly. He's not a more well-rounded player ala Jones or McAvoy and that's okay.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

Exactly like Brent Burns except for the fact they are almost opposites outside of their labels of "Offensive defenceman".

Both good offensively and terrible defensively. Doesnt sound very opposite at all.

 

[Critical13]

Both good offensively and terrible defensively. Doesnt sound very opposite at all.

I guess they would be similar if your entire scope of evaluating a player is Position and Points Total.

 

[joe dirte]

I don't know how to say this any more clearly: we know he has defensive struggles. We still think he's an elite talent.

I do'nt know how to say this more clearly: Your previous posts do'nt seem to acknowledge that, they seem to brush it aside.

How many defencemen right now have the skillset to put up PPG?
.

I have no idea how many dmen could put up a ppg, I'm guessing there are more that are capable of it, if they sacrificed their defensive game than you might think.

Benning needs to surround a player like that with players to balance his flaws and use his game breaking skill properly. He's not a more well-rounded player ala Jones or McAvoy and that's okay.

Sure, Benning needs to insulate him with a better defensive dman. AND he also needs to play a stronger defensive game (again, judging by this year, because I don't have a lot to go on), or he'll never be on the same level as players like Jones, now matter how many points he scores.

You still seem to think I'm bashing him. I'm not. He's young, we really don't know what he'll become yet. Defenseman improve, and often in some areas more than others. That's obviously true for him. I do think those listing him as a top 10 NHL dman were jumping the gun in a big way though.