Is Pettersson a top 10 player in the NHL from now and going forward?

[Fedz]

Matthews is also better defensively and on faceoffs.

I want to hone in on this one. Perhaps I just don't get enough TML stuffed down my throat on the West Coast of Canada, when did Matthews become anything more than average at best defensively?

Pettersson is significantly better possession player. Though Matthews is in the mid 50's as well.

Petey CA/60 - 35.2
Petey FA/60 - 25.5
Matthews CA/60 - 55.6
Matthews FA/60 -43.1

Just a few interesting numbers to look at. I'm not going to claim to be an analytics expert but one players defensive numbers look considerably better than the others.

I will absolutely concede that Matthews is much much better on faceoffs than Petey is, no doubt.

 

[Fedz]

This is how I know you have no clue what you're talking about.

Darn, you're right. Debate over. I literally have no clue what I am talking about. My apologies for even suggesting Matthews 46 career goals was good on the PP.

 

[Ace of Hades]

EP is a great player but the crazy Nucks fans that think he's better than Matthews are hopeless. One post season does not change a player's overall career value this much.

Matthews
D+1 - 69 points in 82 games, 40 goals (0.84 ppg)
D+2 - 63 points in 62 games, 34 goals, (1.02 ppg)
D+3 - 73 points in 68 games, 37 goals, (1.07 ppg)
D+4 - 80 points in 70 games, 47 goals, (1.14ppg)

EP
D+1 - No NHL
D+2 - 66 points in 71 games, 28 goals, (0.93 ppg)
D+3 - 66 points in 68 games, 27 goals, (0.97 ppg)

Matthews is also better defensively and on faceoffs.

Let's also not forget that other than the Blues, Matthews has faced significantly better teams in the playoffs in his career (Bruins with Chara & Bergeron shutdown line x 2 that held Crosby and Malkin pointless and the president's cup winning Capitals)

You believe Matthews is better defensively than EP. That automatically puts you on the hopeless category, no one else.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

This is how I know you have no clue what you're talking about.

Matthews is one of the best even-strength performers in the entire league and by far the best goal-scorer at even strength. Go look at the powerplay time he was given during his ELC and compare that to EP, Eichel and Mackinnon. One of Babcock's biggest problems was limiting Matthews ice-time on the pp during his ELC.

1. Matthews is the better goalscorer by far and also better points wise
2. Matthews is far superior in faceoffs and has been at every comparable age of their careers
3. Matthews is better defensively

Look, I get it. You've had to watch the Oilers get McDavid and LD, the Avs get Mackinnon, Buffalo get Eichel, Florida get Barkov and the Leafs get Matthews. You have your star center now. Just stop overrating him.

He might one day get to the level the others are, but he's not there yet. What Nucks fans are doing has Laine levels of lmao potential.

Matthews is not better defensively. Not even close. Although I have to acknowledge he’s improved this past year after being poor defensively the first couple of years, he still has a ways to go to catch up to Pettersson.

 

[Halla]

he hasnt hit 30g, 70pts or ppg pace yet

he isnt top 20 yet let alone top 10

Top 30 NHL Players #30

 

[BB06]

he hasnt hit 30g, 70pts or ppg pace yet

he isnt top 20 yet let alone top 10

Top 30 NHL Players #30

He elevates his game in the playoffs unlike Matthews. Playoffs matter more but I'm not sure leafs fans would understand.

 

[Ace of Hades]

he hasnt hit 30g, 70pts or ppg pace yet

he isnt top 20 yet let alone top 10

Top 30 NHL Players #30

He is over PPG in his first ever playoffs.

That list is garbage considering how Marner is pegged ahead of ROR for example.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

he hasnt hit 30g, 70pts or ppg pace yet

he isnt top 20 yet let alone top 10

Top 30 NHL Players #30

Terrible list. He’s more than a PPG in the playoffs where it matters. Second only to Mackinnon.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Said it before, but I still don't get how Pettersson went behind Hischier and Patrick. It's not even a Kucherov situation where he blossomed afterward almost out of the blue. Literally a year after they were drafted and he's showing he's a clear step above.

He was divisive. He was a European player playing in a secondary league. There were questions about how his ability would translate to the NHL, given his frame and skating. Some viewed him as 1OA, others didn’t like him and had him outside the top 10.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He does take plenty of face offs, and just because his face off percentage is not good does not make him a non-center.

He plays primarily the role of a centerman in general.

Miller takes his FO’s. He’s too talented for this to continue. He needs to get good on face offs soon. He has always reminded me of Datsyuk, and it’s looking like he’ll reach that level of play, but he needs to get better in that area. Datsyuk didn’t have his wingers take his face offs.

 

[Ace of Hades]

Miller takes his FO’s. He’s too talented for this to continue. He needs to get good on face offs soon. He has always reminded me of Datsyuk, and it’s looking like he’ll reach that level of play, but he needs to get better in that area. Datsyuk didn’t have his wingers take his face offs.

He has been taking a lot of faceoffs for now. Malhotra has been helping him a lot in this regard and he has shown some improvement. Miller mostly took it in the regular season, but now EP has been taking em more in the playoffs.

 

[John Johnson]

he hasnt hit 30g, 70pts or ppg pace yet

he isnt top 20 yet let alone top 10

Top 30 NHL Players #30

Lol this is always the argument with Leaf fans. No wonder your team goes nowhere because all you care about are the points. By the way, since points are your favourite way of determining players:
Matthews career playoff points - 19pts in 25gp
Pettersson career playoff points - 16pts in 12 gp

 

[Pavels Dog]

He has played three gritty teams so far in wild, blues and vegas. Has 16p in 12 games.

Enough said.

Pettersson’s faceoff percentage in the playoffs is 51%. His regular season FO% was 42% but that doesn’t mean he can’t or should play centre.

After Evgeni Malkin’s rookie season, in his next 4 seasons his FO% was 39%, 42%, 40%, and 38%. Geno won the Art Ross, Smyth, and was 2nd in Hart voting with a 42% face off percentage. Do you think Malkin was/is “better suited for winger duties”?

I have a feeling "sample size" don't mean much to you guys.

I don't get the Malkin comparison either. Like... you realize Malkin did some things that far outweigh his poor faceoffs? If I was listing Malkin's accomplishments I'd definitely list his faceoffs as a negative, and his overall defensive game. But it would be drops in the ocean compared to, ya know, winning Art Ross trophies, MVPs etc. And Malkin was at least top 3 on his own team in faceoffs taken. Pettersson was 6th this season.
Elias hasn't scored at the level where I'm willing to overlook all other aspects of his game and pencil him in as a top 10 player at this point.

 

[Holymakinaw]

Matthews career playoff points - 19pts in 25gp
Pettersson career playoff points - 16pts in 12 gp

That's right, Honey.

19 > 16.

 

[Phrasing]

This is how I know you have no clue what you're talking about.

Matthews is one of the best even-strength performers in the entire league and by far the best goal-scorer at even strength. Go look at the powerplay time he was given during his ELC and compare that to EP, Eichel and Mackinnon. One of Babcock's biggest problems was limiting Matthews ice-time on the pp during his ELC.

1. Matthews is the better goalscorer by far and also better points wise
2. Matthews is far superior in faceoffs and has been at every comparable age of their careers
3. Matthews is better defensively

Look, I get it. You've had to watch the Oilers get McDavid and LD, the Avs get Mackinnon, Buffalo get Eichel, Florida get Barkov and the Leafs get Matthews. You have your star center now. Just stop overrating him.

He might one day get to the level the others are, but he's not there yet. What Nucks fans are doing has Laine levels of lmao potential.

Don’t think he’s better defensively or at driving offense, but he’s definitely a better offensive producer especially much better goal scorer. All the stats I’ve seen suggest that EP is better defensively, driving the team’s offense and at tilting the ice.

 

[Love]

I have a feeling "sample size" don't mean much to you guys.

I don't get the Malkin comparison either. Like... you realize Malkin did some things that far outweigh his poor faceoffs? If I was listing Malkin's accomplishments I'd definitely list his faceoffs as a negative, and his overall defensive game. But it would be drops in the ocean compared to, ya know, winning Art Ross trophies, MVPs etc. And Malkin was at least top 3 on his own team in faceoffs taken. Pettersson was 6th this season.
Elias hasn't scored at the level where I'm willing to overlook all other aspects of his game and pencil him in as a top 10 player at this point.

I mean you’re right it’s a stupid argument but it’s your argument. You’re the one who decided faceoff win percentage was a good argument for why EP shouldn’t be a centre.

Also EP is a better defensive player than Malkin, so I’m curious why you think EP shouldn’t be a C. Kinda confusing to follow after you said it’s because hes not great at faceoffs but then say it doesn’t if Malkin isn’t great at faceoffs.

 

[Breakers]

Imagine discrediting Pettersson for faceoffs. Literally faceoffs?????
LOLOLOL

Petterssons game is predicated on possession
And you might want to check who is 2nd in the entire league behind couturier in faceoff percentage. That’s right it’s JT Miller.

Also Vancouver is the only team in the league with 3 players in the top 10 in faceoff percentage

they have the best faceoff coach in the NHL Malhotra who has said he is working with Pettersson on faceoffs until they can get to a certain percentage.

 

[Regal]

Miller takes his FO’s. He’s too talented for this to continue. He needs to get good on face offs soon. He has always reminded me of Datsyuk, and it’s looking like he’ll reach that level of play, but he needs to get better in that area. Datsyuk didn’t have his wingers take his face offs.

I think this is a pretty minor factor to care about when Miller won nearly 60% this year. It would be nice for him to get better, because you'd prefer him to not rely on his wingers or for the team to lose too much on the dot while he's out there, especially since most wingers aren't as good as Miller at faceoffs (and they'vebeen playing apart recently), but faceoffs are a pretty minor part of the game overall. No one seems to bring it up for Aho or Barzal among young centers or call them not real centermen. It's a weird criticism that only seems to be directed at Petterssom

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I think this is a pretty minor factor to care about when Miller won nearly 60% this year. It would be nice for him to get better, because you'd prefer him to not rely on his wingers or for the team to lose too much on the dot while he's out there, especially since most wingers aren't as good as Miller at faceoffs (and they'vebeen playing apart recently), but faceoffs are a pretty minor part of the game overall. No one seems to bring it up for Aho or Barzal among young centers or call them not real centermen. It's a weird criticism that only seems to be directed at Petterssom

I direct it at all centers who are elite but bad on face-offs. It matters. You would rather be able to have your best players also be your best face-off men. That gives the team a lot more flexibility. And I don't think there are that many players who are elite but bad on face-offs, so usually being a good FO man is a common theme among the elite centers.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I direct it at all centers who are elite but bad on face-offs. It matters. You would rather be able to have your best players also be your best face-off men. That gives the team a lot more flexibility. And I don't think there are that many players who are elite but bad on face-offs, so usually being a good FO man is a common theme among the elite centers.

McDavid? MacKinnon? Malkin? Aho? Barzal?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

McDavid? MacKinnon? Malkin? Aho? Barzal?

Only one of those players is far into his career, and should've had a lot of time to improve his face-offs. Even MacKinnon is still only 24. McDavid, Aho and Barzal are all 23.

Young players are usually bad on face-offs. It's unlikely most of those guys will still be bad on face-offs in five years. If they are, they are one of the few elite NHL'ers, like Malkin, that are unable to improve a pretty easy weakness, like this, to improve over the course of their careers.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Only one of those players is far into his career, and should've had a lot of time to improve his face-offs. Even MacKinnon is still only 24. McDavid, Aho and Barzal are all 23.

Young players are usually bad on face-offs. It's unlikely most of those guys will still be bad on face-offs in five years. If they are, they are one of the few elite NHL'ers, like Malkin, that are unable to improve a pretty easy weakness, like this, to improve over the course of their careers.

MacKinnon's been in the league 7 seasons now. In fact, he saw an uptick in percentage as a 21 year old, then fell back to where he is now the past 3 seasons. But his play actually improved as that faceoff percentage declined.

Point being, does it ultimately matter? None of those guys who are bad at faceoffs seem to be diminished by it. They're still dominant at what they do. So even if Pettersson never improves, is it even worth discussing?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

MacKinnon's been in the league 7 seasons now. In fact, he saw an uptick in percentage as a 21 year old, then fell back to where he is now the past 3 seasons. But his play actually improved as that faceoff percentage declined.

Point being, does it ultimately matter? None of those guys who are bad at faceoffs seem to be diminished by it. They're still dominant at what they do. So even if Pettersson never improves, is it even worth discussing?

And I believe I've criticized this part of MacKinnon's game. I agree that he should be better now than he is, but I also wouldn't completely rule out that he'll still improve on face-offs in upcoming years.

I think it does matter and is worth discussing. Nobody suggested a player is in a lower tier of hockey player only due to face-offs, but when we are talking about two players in the same tier or a player between two tiers, these smaller parts of the game can be a determining factor. They absolutely do matter.

As I've mentioned before, Crosby's ability to excel in so many of these smaller parts of the game is probably why he's separated himself in terms of legacy from players like Ovechkin and Malkin, who have a similar or greater amount of offensive talent.

 

[Star Ocean]

That's right, Honey.

19 > 16.

Lol it took matthews 3 playoffs to make it to 19.

Pettersson is still in his first.

 

[John Johnson]

That's right, Honey.

19 > 16.

3 less points in 13 less games. Even you can see the discrepancy.