Is Nikita Kucherov a Generational Talent? (Based on his NHL Career)

[benfranklin]

No player in NHL deserves the designation “generational”, unless you simply insist on the one having most points and thats it - thus only Crosby and McDavid as his replacement qualify.

But not even them can claim the acclaim in rhe same manner Messi and Ronaldo do in football - and thats a fact. When you look at the most goals and assists by a footballer since year 2000 (as it stood at the end of August this year), Messi was at 1212, Ronaldo 1151 and the third one, Robert Lewandowski, was at 800 (while playing most of the career in somwhat inferior german league). So the first 2 guys cca 50 (or 45 percent respectively) then the third guy - now that is GENERATIONAL.

Now look at the point totals of NHL players and since 2015 find McDavid at 988, with the trio of Kucherov, Drai and MacK behind him at 869,855 and 847. Whole 13 percent more points than Kucherov. I guess you can claim its generational, cause he is the best, but as far as i am concerned, he certainly did not do enough to set himself apart from the rest the way Messi and Ronaldo did.

All in all, the whole debate is highly subjective and stupid, as usual.

So defenseman and goaltenders are excluded from this out the gate?! Seems fair.

 

[Miri]

So defenseman and goaltenders are excluded from this out the gate?! Seems fair.

Since its usually offensive players that score goals/produce points, who are considered to be the best players by majority of fans, it is what it is.

And, as i said, its stupid. Do not understand the local obsession with individual players and their stats and accolades, since hockey is a team sport.

 

[benfranklin]

Since its usually offensive players that score goals/produce points, who are considered to be the best players by majority of fans, it is what it is.

And, as i said, its stupid. Do not understand the local obsession with individual players and their stats and accolades, since hockey is a team sport.

That logic is brutal. Lidstrom led defensive scoring in his career 4 times "only". Bobby Orr led the league in scoring twice "only". So they arent generational because of reasons...

Any goalie ever could post 82 shutouts in a season and he isnt generational because he doesnt score goals...

You dont see a flaw in this logic?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

That logic is brutal. Lidstrom led defensive scoring in his career 4 times "only". Bobby Orr led the league in scoring twice "only". So they arent generational because of reasons...

Any goalie ever could post 82 shutouts in a season and he isnt generational because he doesnt score goals...

You dont see a flaw in this logic?

Lidstrom was definitely not generational

 

[Rals]

Hell yes he is

 

[benfranklin]

Lidstrom was definitely not generational

But Bobby Orr was?

Assuming McDavid ended his career today, he would be Bobby Orr stats wise and never really seeing him digress.

Orr did win two Cups, albeit a 14 team league then.

 

[aragon416]

No.

 

[alko]

Generational Talent or Player?

 

[MuckOG]

So defenseman and goaltenders are excluded from this out the gate?! Seems fair.

Orr is for sure a generational player, no question. I could be convinced that Hasek is one also.

Generational Talent or Player?

What's the difference? Honest question.

 

[Number8]

Your word: Ballwashing

Can I have it in a sentence, please?

"Recently, HF Boards seems to have an irrational obsession with ballwashing Nikita Kucherov."

Great player. But he's not a "generational" talent and big f***ing deal that he didn't win the Hart last year. Give it a rest.

 

[Cup or Bust]

He is the one of the best players of his generation.

 

[benfranklin]

Orr is for sure a generational player, no question. I could be convinced that Hasek is one also.

Right I think we all go immediately to Orr, but then I ask what is different about Lidstrom and what we are seeing with Makar at that position.

Orr changed the game for defensemen
- Calder
- 2 Art Ross
- 2 Cups
- 2 Conn Smythe
- 8 Norris

But essentially "only" had a 9 year career. So only saw his prime and never the regression with age. Also only a 14 team league and not much in terms of competition D wise. Orr to me is the biggest would could didnt because of injuries. We might have seen another 10 Norris's here if he was healthy.

Lidstrom
- 4 Cups
- 1 Conn Smythe
- 7 Norris

20 year career and didnt peak until 31 when Orr was already retired by comparison. Did it in arguably the toughest NHL era to score and pre 05 lockout and continued it post lockout.

Makar
- Calder
- 1 Cup
- 1 Norris
- 1 Conn Smythe

Only 6 years into his career, already has minor health issues which likely prevented another 2 Norris's. On pace (assuming health) and playing 20 seasons to be the highest scoring dman ever. I think we'd all be shocked if he didnt rack up a few more Norris's and scary to think that dmen can get better with age and no reason to think he wont.

So Lidstrom isnt generational because it took longer to peak? And Makar isnt generational because...reasons?

Hasek was in a league of his own for years goaltending, but again, started slow, and doesnt have the team hardware playing in Buffalo for so long.

 

[MuckOG]

So Lidstrom isnt generational because it took longer to peak? And Makar isnt generational because...reasons?

There's probably more of a case for Lidstrom than there is for Makar. And it really comes down to how one defines "generational", doesn't it? I'm very stingy in my definition: the greatest 1 or 2 players in the NHL who were heads and shoulders better than every other player for a period of 5-10 years.

I don't assign it based on position. IMO, Orr was the greatest player of his time, forward or defenseman.

Fans are free to have their own opinions on who should be considered in that "generational" group. My opinion is my own.

 

[Arto Kilponen]

Only winger to ever record 100 assists in a season.

Seems pretty once in a lifetime to me.

While I totally agree that it is a great accomplishment and Kucherov will forever be in history books for that, it is only one season where this was done. It's not "generation". It also just happens to be by a winger, I think there's centers that could have done it if they would have played as wingers.

Also I wouldn't hold your breath for the "once in a lifetime"-part. I'd be pretty surprised if it doesn't happen against within this decade.

 

[Arto Kilponen]

I think that’s a vast minority opinion, that’s not to say it’s wrong necessarily but it will be a long shot for him to pass Yzerman and Sakic on an all-time list since each had similar playoff success, peaks, primes, aged tremendously and started off much stronger than Kucherov.

Then again, during the brightest days of Yzerman and Sakic there wasn't salary cap ripping up teams that managed to get something done. Winning two cups today is _a lot_ harder than it was like 30 years ago. Not only the salary cap, but there's like 20 % more teams too and even the worst teams are more competitive than ever - not in a sense that for example Sharks would win Stanley Cup this season, but in a sense that if you give any team, say, five years, they have a pretty good chance to give a serious run to the Cup.

What makes Yzerman and Sakic much better than Kucherov right now are the durations of their careers. This obviously is totally unfair against Kucherov, because he simply isn't that old yet and just as obviously he has a chance to have such a long career, remains to be seen.

 

[GOilers88]

While I totally agree that it is a great accomplishment and Kucherov will forever be in history books for that, it is only one season where this was done. It's not "generation". It also just happens to be by a winger, I think there's centers that could have done it if they would have played as wingers.

Also I wouldn't hold your breath for the "once in a lifetime"-part. I'd be pretty surprised if it doesn't happen against within this decade.

5 players in all of NHL history have done it. It's a massively rare accomplishment reserved for the likes of Gretzky, Orr and Lemieux and hadn't been done in 35 years prior to last season.

I think you're trying really hard to minimize the accomplishment.

 

[ViD]

Nikita Kucherov is arguably the best Russian NHLer of all time taking his peak seasons into account . This absolutely makes him a generational talent

 

[Arto Kilponen]

5 players in all of NHL history have done it. It's a massively rare accomplishment reserved for the likes of Gretzky, Orr and Lemieux and hadn't been done in 35 years prior to last season.

I think you're trying really hard to minimize the accomplishment.

And yet it was done twice last season.

These 35 years have had eras where point scoring race (not assists, but all points) was won by less than 90 points. Players weren't that bad back then. Instead the game has changed. And I don't see it going back to ultra-defensive any time soon.

 

[Puckstuff]

Kucherov is as good or possibly better then prime Ovechkin imo

 

[jbeck5]

How many generational talents are there at a time? Some will say 1, whereas some will say many.

Are Gretzky and Lemieux both generational talents? Because they played together in the NHL for 10-15 years...some even say Lindros was a generational talent but injuries and whiney reputation means his career wasn't generational.

So many were ok with having 2-3 forwards as generational.

Then what about goaltending...are Patrick Roy, Dominik Hasek, and Martin Brodeur not all generational talents? They all played in the same era(Roy a few years older)

So if many say there can be 3 generational goalies at a time, why not have a few generational forwards?

Was Lidstrom generational for defenseman?

I feel like in the late 90s you could argue there was atleast half a dozen generational players in the NHL.

No one bats an eye on most names I mentioned.

Yet if you dare try to say there might be a handful of generational players in the league, people take issue.

So why were there so many more generational talents before compared to now? Perhaps nostalgia at play?

 

[GOilers88]

And yet it was done twice last season.

These 35 years have had eras where point scoring race (not assists, but all points) was won by less than 90 points. Players weren't that bad back then. Instead the game has changed. And I don't see it going back to ultra-defensive any time soon.

Since 1969 there's only been 3 years where the Art Ross went to a player with less than 100 points, and two of them came from the Dead Puck Era.

3 times in 55 years.

Again, I think you're really trying to downplay just how massive of an achievement it is.

Twice last season. Yes.
To Join Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux and McDavid as the only players in history to have ever done it, and the only winger ever. Literally a list of the greatest to ever play the game.

 

[Arto Kilponen]

Since 1969 there's only been 3 years where the Art Ross went to a player with less than 100 points, and two of them came from the Dead Puck Era.

3 times in 55 years.

Again, I think you're really trying to downplay just how massive of an achievement it is.

Twice last season. Yes.
To Join Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux and McDavid as the only players in history to have ever done it, and the only winger ever. Literally a list of the greatest to ever play the game.

I could even place a bet of 100+ assist season happening again by the end of 2029-30 season.

Kucherov is as good or possibly better then prime Ovechkin imo

I would agree with this, Kucherov has more elite assets to his game.

 

[jigglysquishy]

If you start at expansion (1967) and limit it to forwards only. It's a roughly 60 year timeframe. If you consider a generation 20 years you're left with Gretzky/Lemieux/McDavid.

If you consider a generation 10 years you're left with Gretzky/Lemieux/McDavid/Crosby/Jagr/Ovechkin. This is probably the most common list. I think there's a clear top 6 forwards to have debuted since 1967.

If you consider a generation 5 years you're looking at 12 names now. So 6 of Lafleur/Messier/Makarov/Sakic/Trottier/Clarke/Yzerman/Bossy/Kharlamov/Malkin/Kucherov/Forsberg/Dionne/Selanne/Kane/Lindros/MacKinnon. I could see Kucherov in the top 6 there even if I don't quite have him there. This feels like a really broad definition of generational.

I would strongly lean to the second definition, of there being 6 generational forwards since expansion and Kucherov isn't one of them.

 

[jbeck5]

Kucherov is as good or possibly better then prime Ovechkin imo

I wonder this too. Sure, Ovechkin was the better goal scorer, and hitter. More explosive. But kucherov clearly the better puck handler and playmaker and more productive offensively.

His last 6-7 years points per game is unmatched by anyone but McDavid and Crosby in the last 30 years. (Better than draisaitl or MacKinnon or Ovechkin)

So if you limit it to 1-2, then I see how he's a no, but if you're ok with a couple goalies, a couple d, a couple forwards per 10-15 years, then he makes it for sure.

 

[GOilers88]

I could even place a bet of 100+ assist season happening again by the end of 2029-30 season.

Just because you say there's a bunch of other players who "could have" done it, or that it will happen again, doesn't make it true. As it stands it's one of the rarest accomplishments in NHL history reserved for literally the absolutely best of the best.

Kucherov has also posted a 1.21PPG across his 885 game career thus far. He's a 1.10PPG across 147 post season games. He's one of the most dominant wingers the league has seen in decades.