Is Nikita Kucherov a Generational Talent? (Based on his NHL Career)

[NVious]

Again, what qualifies McDavid as a generational talent? Being Canadian?
He lost the Art Ross in his prime to "non generational players" Three Times.
Again, I did not say that Kucherov is gerational, I just said that if he isn`t so can`t be McDavid.
A generational player is head and shouders above his peers, unless one of his peers is generational, as well.
No one denies that McDavid is exceptional but there are a few players in his gneration that are right n his heels. Something that couldn`t be said about other generational players.

Kuch shouldn't be compared to McDavid, their trophy cases aren't even close. McDavid is already tied for 3rd place in Art Ross Trophy wins, tied for 4th in Hart wins, tied for 2nd in Lindsays and has the 4th highest (3rd in terms of players) playoff point production, to do all that at 27 is insane.

As far as Kucherov goes, he needs to keep up his current level for another 3-5 years if he wants to be considered generational.

 

[EpochLink]

Kucherov is a future hall of famer, his trophy case and career is good enough.

 

[SensFactor]

He's not, but he is close. The man is uber-talented, I have him in the same class as Federov & Datsyuk by the end of his career if he keeps up his scoring pace. He's only 31.

 

[MuckOG]

Until there is wide spread agreement of the definition of what a "generational" player is, we will continue to see these threads and disagreements.

My definition includes the 1 or 2 players who are heads and shoulders better than everyone else in the NHL over an extended period of time. IMO, that would be about 5+ years.

 

[benfranklin]

Bedard is not a generational talent, he was an over hyped prospect who will be a very good player but no he's not generational.

And Celebrini has never been called Generational LOL and no Makar is not a generational defenseman there is no case for it, and also he's not on the same tier as the 2nd best DMAN of all time what the eff are you smoking? Makar is good but he's done nothing to be considered on the same tier has Lindstrom, 4-5 years of a career do not warrant being put on the same tier as Lindstrom please stop smoking what ever you are smoking

Every one of your examples are TBD. Obviously theyre fresh into their careers still. If youre going off draft hype, then Bedard and Celebrini have the potential to be.

If Bedard or Celebrini go off and win 4 Cups in a row competing with McDavid for scoring titles, we will 100% call them generational talents.

Crosby was the same as McDavid/Bedard/Celebrini then became "generational" when he proved it. Ovechkin even didnt have the same hype and is going down as the best goal scorer ever so needed time to be "generational".

Makar can easily match or pass Lidstrom and is on his way. You can easily argue he'd have 2 more Norris's already if he was healthy. Obviously he isnt there yet, but he has 10-15 more years to do it.

 

[keglu]

Again, what qualifies McDavid as a generational talent? Being Canadian?

Short version: he is best NHL player in last 30 years
Longer version: 5 Art Ross, 3 Harts, 4 Lindsay, 1 Conn Smythe. 3 highest PPG in both RS I PO.

For reference: Draisiatl+ Kucherov+ Matthews+ Mackinnon = 3 Art Ross, 4 Harts, 4 Lindsay.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Every one of your examples are TBD. Obviously theyre fresh into their careers still. If youre going off draft hype, then Bedard and Celebrini have the potential to be.

If Bedard or Celebrini go off and win 4 Cups in a row competing with McDavid for scoring titles, we will 100% call them generational talents.

Crosby was the same as McDavid/Bedard/Celebrini then became "generational" when he proved it. Ovechkin even didnt have the same hype and is going down as the best goal scorer ever so needed time to be "generational".

Makar can easily match or pass Lidstrom and is on his way. You can easily argue he'd have 2 more Norris's already if he was healthy. Obviously he isnt there yet, but he has 10-15 more years to do it.

Mcdavid and Crosby were called generational talents way before there Draft, no one has ever said Celebrini has the talent to be generational, Bedard is in my opinion very overhyped, and I'm not sure how you say Ovie wasn't generational from the beginning the guy was an absolute force his rookie season he scored 50 goals, how is that needing time to live upto the hype? Mcdavid very well probably would have hit 90+ points his rookie year if not for injuries. And no Makar is not generational, its not something you become over time, it happens from the moment you enter the league, where the players presence on a team alters the course of an entire franchise, like Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr and Crosby. And also Celebrini has never been mentioned in the same breath as the type of prospect as Bedard even whom I don't consider to be generational, yet alone Crosby or Mcdavid, once again you're revising history to support a false narative.

Kuch shouldn't be compared to McDavid, their trophy cases aren't even close. McDavid is already tied for 3rd place in Art Ross Trophy wins, tied for 4th in Hart wins, tied for 2nd in Lindsays and has the 4th highest (3rd in terms of players) playoff point production, to do all that at 27 is insane.

As far as Kucherov goes, he needs to keep up his current level for another 3-5 years if he wants to be considered generational.

No that will not make him generational

 

[TheBeard]

Kuch is a terrific player and a surefire hall of famer.

But he’s not close to being dominant over his peers in any category. Great goal scorer, great passer, clutch guy, smart.

 

[Beyonder91]

Yes. He has already set assist record for a winger and first winger to ever hit 100 assists.

 

[Acallabeth]

Did we not just see McDavid have 33 points in a 16 game playoff run, then post over 40 points while beating Gretzky’s playoff assists record and almost single handedly pulling off the 3-0 deficit to comeback for the Cup. These are players on different levels here, really not hard to see looking at the stats or watching them play.

McDavid is great, for sure, but how does he lose scoring titles in full seasons if he's on another level? Even to his own teammate? Lemieux was never scoring less than Jagr (until Mario was decidedly past his prime), and Jagr won 5 Art Rosses.

Short version: he is best NHL player in last 30 years
Longer version: 5 Art Ross, 3 Harts, 4 Lindsay, 1 Conn Smythe. 3 highest PPG in both RS I PO.

For reference: Draisiatl+ Kucherov+ Matthews+ Mackinnon = 3 Art Ross, 4 Harts, 4 Lindsay.

Voting awards in hockey are strongly subject to bias. I won't say that McDavid's are undeserved, but, say, if last year's Hart went to Kucherov (which would also be merited), we're talking 3 Harts vs 2. Which, once again, doesn't really signal 'another level'.

 

[Romang67]

Kane was the model of excellence and consistency, but there is a reason people never brought him up as potentially generational. Kucherov in his peak has reached heights that Kane never did. Whether you hold his development years against him is a judgment call.

I don't see why we wouldn't take the development years into account. The fact that McDavid entered the league at 18, played half a season with the 3rd best point scoring rate in the league, and then won the Art Ross the next season is a massive plus in his case for being a generational player. Kucherov not looking like one of the best players in the world until he was halfway through his 20s, meanwhile, is a negative.

The vast majority of players who are deemed generational had immediate impact that lasted for a long time. The ones that didn't (Hasek who wasn't viewed as the best goalie in the world until his late 20s, or Orr whose career was cut short) dominated in ways that left no doubt that they were generational.

Kucherov is a very good player. He has spent years of being one of the best players in the game. But he's not generational.

 

[Grifter3511]

Every one of your examples are TBD. Obviously theyre fresh into their careers still. If youre going off draft hype, then Bedard and Celebrini have the potential to be.

If Bedard or Celebrini go off and win 4 Cups in a row competing with McDavid for scoring titles, we will 100% call them generational talents.

Crosby was the same as McDavid/Bedard/Celebrini then became "generational" when he proved it. Ovechkin even didnt have the same hype and is going down as the best goal scorer ever so needed time to be "generational".

Makar can easily match or pass Lidstrom and is on his way. You can easily argue he'd have 2 more Norris's already if he was healthy. Obviously he isnt there yet, but he has 10-15 more years to do it.

Not to mention Lidstrom didn't earn his first Norris until he was 31years old. Makar has accomplished significantly more than Lidstrom had by the same age.

 

[Coffey]

Eh.. He only has one more Art Ross than Draisaitl., with equal Lindsays and Harts.
I'd say he's one tier below Generational.

 

[authentic]

He's not, but he is close. The man is uber-talented, I have him in the same class as Federov & Datsyuk by the end of his career if he keeps up his scoring pace. He's only 31.

Yes this is the class he belongs to, which is an undeniably great one. Players like these, Pavel Bure, Patrick Kane, Teemu Selanne, just supremely talented and productive superstars who are a notch above your average HOFer but they’re not contending for a top 5-10 player of all time. Heck they would be just outside the top 10 of players in the modern era, even when looking at forwards only…

Gretzky
Lemieux
McDavid
Crosby
Jagr
Malkin
Ovechkin
Forsberg
Lindros
Sakic
Yzerman
MacKinnon
Fedorov
Datsyuk
Messier
Bossy
Bure/Kane/Kucherov/Selanne

That’s who he’s competing with to get into top 10 forwards of modern day only, and people are seriously trying to put him on the level of what will soon be an undisputed 5 best overall player of all-time.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Not to mention Lidstrom didn't earn his first Norris until he was 31years old. Makar has accomplished significantly more than Lidstrom had by the same age

Prime Lindstrom won 4 stanley Cups, 7 Norris Trophies with his last one being at the age of 41, he is arguanbly the 2nd best dman to ever play the game. If you want to play this same age crap, Lindstrom was going up against HOF DMAN like Bourque, Pronger, Chelios, Leetch, Macinnis and many more. There was simply more high quality DMAN when he was younger, and also is the fact that Lindstrom played a very simple non flashy game, but his impact on the ice was much greater than than of Makar.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Every one of your examples are TBD. Obviously theyre fresh into their careers still. If youre going off draft hype, then Bedard and Celebrini have the potential to be.

If Bedard or Celebrini go off and win 4 Cups in a row competing with McDavid for scoring titles, we will 100% call them generational talents.

Crosby was the same as McDavid/Bedard/Celebrini then became "generational" when he proved it. Ovechkin even didnt have the same hype and is going down as the best goal scorer ever so needed time to be "generational".

Makar can easily match or pass Lidstrom and is on his way. You can easily argue he'd have 2 more Norris's already if he was healthy. Obviously he isnt there yet, but he has 10-15 more years to do it.

None of them are or will be generational.

 

[PM88RU]

The rating obsession at HF is mind-blowing.

if we exclude “underrated”, “overrated” and “generational” topics - maximum half of the topics at board will remain.

No. He isn’t. Just like Dats, my favorite player.
But who cares?

I’d be glad for him to add couple more Art Rosses to his collection, though. Because he can.

 

[Grifter3511]

Prime Lindstrom won 4 stanley Cups, 7 Norris Trophies with his last one being at the age of 41, he is arguanbly the 2nd best dman to ever play the game. If you want to play this same age crap, Lindstrom was going up against HOF DMAN like Bourque, Pronger, Chelios, Leetch, Macinnis and many more. There was simply more high quality DMAN when he was younger, and also is the fact that Lindstrom played a very simple non flashy game, but his impact on the ice was much greater than than of Makar.

I agree with all of that, but not by the age of 25. Im under no illusions that Makar will have a better career than Lidstrom. All im saying is at this point, he has had a better career. Makar has a norris and a cup. By the same age, Lidstrom had neither. Makar could possibly (but not realistically) have 6 Norris' by the age Lidstrom won his first. Also, if you think the guy is so great you could maybe spell his name correctly.

 

[DFC]

He's not, but he is close. The man is uber-talented, I have him in the same class as Federov & Datsyuk by the end of his career if he keeps up his scoring pace. He's only 31.

As someone who watched both of those guys, Kucherov is several tiers ahead.

Not generational, but only because of how exclusive that group is.

I do think Kucherov is underappreciated though. He's one of the best ever. Probably a top-10 winger all time.

 

[DFC]

Yes this is the class he belongs to, which is an undeniably great one. Players like these, Pavel Bure, Patrick Kane, Teemu Selanne, just supremely talented and productive superstars who are a notch above your average HOFer but they’re not contending for a top 5-10 player of all time. Heck they would be just outside the top 10 of players in the modern era, even when looking at forwards only…

Gretzky
Lemieux
McDavid
Crosby
Jagr
Malkin
Ovechkin
Forsberg
Lindros
Sakic
Yzerman
MacKinnon
Fedorov
Datsyuk
Messier
Bossy
Bure/Kane/Kucherov/Selanne

That’s who he’s competing with to get into top 10 forwards of modern day only, and people are seriously trying to put him on the level of what will soon be an undisputed 5 best overall player of all-time.

He's better than about half that list. Steve Yzerman is my all time favorite player, so it pains me a bit to say this, but Kucherov will, or at least should, go down as the better player.

 

[authentic]

He's better than about half that list. Steve Yzerman is my all time favorite player, so it pains me a bit to say this, but Kucherov will, or at least should, go down as the better player.

Really? Based on what exactly?

 

[Toby91ca]

Yes. He is clearly the second best player after McDavid since about 5 years ago. The second best player of a generation is always a generational talent.

Is he "clearly" the 2nd best the past 5 season though? I'd argue MacKinnon....but either way, I wouldn't say it's clear.

 

[DFC]

Really? Based on what exactly?

Kucherov is a much more dangerous scorer. He creates plays out of nothing all the time. People don't realize how good this guy is. Their first hint might come this year when Stamkos drops to 50 points in Nashville.

 

[Romang67]

Kucherov is a much more dangerous scorer. He creates plays out of nothing all the time. People don't realize how good this guy is. Their first hint might come this year when Stamkos drops to 50 points in Nashville.

Who created the plays for Yzerman? Gerard Gallant?

 

[DFC]

Who created the plays for Yzerman? Gerard Gallant?

I'm not saying Yzerman wasn't great. But Kucherov should be viewed above him. He's just insanely dangerous.