Is Nikita Kucherov a Generational Talent? (Based on his NHL Career)

[Golden_Jet]

because there is no clear definition here

A couple of players every 20 years or so, after that your talking franchise players.

 

[Soul Assumption]

A couple of players every 20 years or so

Who decided this?

 

[I Hate Blake Coleman]

Who decided this?

A generation is a decade IMO. 20 years is too wide a gap.

 

[benfranklin]

No in 2022 and still no today. Obviously depends how we define generational talent.

IMO, it is players who are leaps and bounds ahead of their piers vs great careers.

Orr
Gretzky
Lemieux
Jagr
Crosby
Ovechkin
McDavid

Malkin had the talent but injuries derailed him.

Makar currently has the best case to argue, but is more in the Lidstrom tier of all time great vs "generational".

Bedard and Celebrini are hard maybes

 

[Golden_Jet]

A generation is a decade IMO. 20 years is too wide a gap.

Disagree. A generation is the time from a parent having a kid, until the kid has a kid.
(Likely closer to 25 years, but went with 20.
I had 2 players in twenty years. so that’s like one in 10 years, in your case.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

We toss the term generational around to free and easy these days.

I commented earlier about this but now lets let the numbers do the talking

Kuch first year was 13/14

HE is 4th in pts overall since then

McDavid 655 games 988 pts
Crosby 808 games 937 pts
MacKinnon 796 games 908 pts
Kuch 729 games 882 pts

McDavid is the clear Generational talent of Kuch's era with Crosby being the Generational talent of the previous generation.

Let me put it another way

You have a draft year of

McDavid
Crosby
Mackinnon
Kuch
Patrick Kane
Alex O
Anze Kopitar
Steve Stamkos
Geno Malkin


How many seriously take Kuch over McDavid and Crosby?

For me, the term "Generational" goes to the guy you point at and go there and say "it is him"

Kuch is a great player but he is not a generational talent, in my opinion, part of being a generational talent is not just looking at what that player is doing but other players of his era.

Both McDavid and Crosby would be the ones going 1 and 2 in any draft in the list I posted. Nothing against Kuch but he is also helped by having a lot of good players on his team. Having a clear number 1 d man in Hedman, Number 1 goalie in Vis and a supporting cast that is and was pretty good.

Both McDavid and Crosby did a lot of damage with little or no support from the supporting cast the teams put together early in their career

Sure that scrub Draisaitl sucks.

Some of you, man.

 

[DrDangles]

Generational talents don't wait until they're 25 to be considered one of the best in the world, they're elite from their first shift onwards.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

No

MacKinnon isn’t generational either

 

[Reindl87]

What`s the argument for McDavid being a generational player, but Kucherov isn`t one? Either they are both or none of them is. Kucherov has beaten a prime McDavid TWICE in outstanding fashion in the Art Ross Race. How often have prime Gretzky and Lemieux lost to a non generational player?
On top of that, Kucherov`s success in the playoffs is obviuolsy on a totally different level than McDavid. There are ZERO arguments for McDavid being generational while Kucherov isn`t.
I don`t say that Kucherov is better, but a generational player has to seperate himself from non generational players in a different way.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

What`s the argument for McDavid being a generational player, but Kucherov isn`t one? Either they are both or none of them is. Kucherov has beaten a prime McDavid TWICE in outstanding fashion in the Art Ross Race. How often have prime Gretzky and Lemieux lost to a non generational player?
On top of that, Kucherov`s success in the playoffs is obviuolsy on a totally different level than McDavid. There are ZERO arguments for McDavid being generational while Kucherov isn`t.
I don`t say that Kucherov is better, but a generational player has to seperate himself from non generational players in a different way.

Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Crosby, Ovie and Mcdavid are generational talents, this can not be argued and not every player who has a good year is Generational simply an elite player having a good year. The word Generational is being watered down so much lately, no Kucherov who is a very good player mind you, but no he's not generational, nor will he ever be considered one accept by a few morons on hfboards who have no understanding of what it actually is. If I was going to add one player to the list of Generational players it would be Hasek not Kucherov.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

No in 2022 and still no today. Obviously depends how we define generational talent.

IMO, it is players who are leaps and bounds ahead of their piers vs great careers.

Orr
Gretzky
Lemieux
Jagr
Crosby
Ovechkin
McDavid

Malkin had the talent but injuries derailed him.

Makar currently has the best case to argue, but is more in the Lidstrom tier of all time great vs "generational".

Bedard and Celebrini are hard maybes

Bedard is not a generational talent, he was an over hyped prospect who will be a very good player but no he's not generational.

And Celebrini has never been called Generational LOL and no Makar is not a generational defenseman there is no case for it, and also he's not on the same tier as the 2nd best DMAN of all time what the eff are you smoking? Makar is good but he's done nothing to be considered on the same tier has Lindstrom, 4-5 years of a career do not warrant being put on the same tier as Lindstrom please stop smoking what ever you are smoking

 

[Reindl87]

Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Orr, Crosby, Ovie and Mcdavid are generational talents, this can not be argued and not every player who has a good year is Generational simply an elite player having a good year. The word Generational is being watered down so much lately, no Kucherov who is a very good player mind you, but no he's not generational, nor will he ever be considered one accept by a few morons on hfboards who have no understanding of what it actually is. If I was going to add one player to the list of Generational players it would be Hasek not Kucherov.

Again, what qualifies McDavid as a generational talent? Being Canadian?
He lost the Art Ross in his prime to "non generational players" Three Times.
Again, I did not say that Kucherov is gerational, I just said that if he isn`t so can`t be McDavid.
A generational player is head and shouders above his peers, unless one of his peers is generational, as well.
No one denies that McDavid is exceptional but there are a few players in his gneration that are right n his heels. Something that couldn`t be said about other generational players.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Of course not

 

[Acallabeth]

Whether he is or not, to claim that he isn't on McDavid's level over the course of their careers would just be rejecting truth.

Kucherov has the 2nd and 3rd strongest Art Rosses, he is pretty close in points per game (it's not the Gretzky sitiation with Wayne having 2.2 PPG over the runner-up's 1.3 PPG), he outscored McD twice in full seasons (not just got the Forsberg Trophy for imaginary points), he has just had 100 assists as well, he does have the team success despite McDavid having the strongest teammate between the two (Draisaitl) and he shows no signs of slowing down despite being in his 30s.

People are struggling with accepting this because McDavid has been called a prodigy and a generational talent since his early teens, and a Russian winger picked (somehow) in the 2nd round being just as good (or even just a little bit behind) is unthinkable, but it's the way things are.

 

[CaptainBenn]

i would say no (but he is not far).

If his name was something like connor mcsween or something im sure a lot more people in this thread would be saying yes

russians just have that negativity aura around them here for some reason.

 

[Romang67]

Well, he was drafted in 2011. 13 years later, this is his trophy case and awards:

3 time First Team All-Star
2 time Second Team All-Star
2 time Art Ross Winner
1 time Hart Trophy Winner
1 time Lindsay Trophy Winner

So no, I wouldn't say so. Here is Patrick Kane's at the same point in his career:

3 time First Team All-Star
1 time Second Team All-Star
1 time Art Ross Winner
1 time Hart Trophy Winner
1 time Lindsay Trophy Winner

And no one has ever pushed Kane as a generational talent. You can be a really good player for an extended period of time without being close to generational.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

Posters as usual have really lenient standards when it comes to the generational talk

 

[bobbyking]

LOL

 

[VinikToWinIt]

Well, he was drafted in 2011. 13 years later, this is his trophy case and awards:

3 time First Team All-Star
2 time Second Team All-Star
2 time Art Ross Winner
1 time Hart Trophy Winner
1 time Lindsay Trophy Winner

So no, I wouldn't say so. Here is Patrick Kane's at the same point in his career:

3 time First Team All-Star
1 time Second Team All-Star
1 time Art Ross Winner
1 time Hart Trophy Winner
1 time Lindsay Trophy Winner

And no one has ever pushed Kane as a generational talent. You can be a really good player for an extended period of time without being close to generational.

I think Kucherov is a bit of a unique case that this year-based comparison doesn't work perfectly for, because it undersells the dominance of his peak vs. a player like Kane - while Kane's longevity is superior.

Kucherov was drafted in 2011, but didn't crack the roster for 3 more years where he played sparingly as a 4th liner. He soon vaulted up to "very good", but didn't reach peak Kucherov until probably 2017ish.

Kane was drafted and pretty much immediately was near his peak performance, which he maintained for a VERY long time.

As a result, Kane compiled those over the course of 15 years of very high level play. Kucherov has done his best work in the last 7 years, despite losing an entire season and a half to injury over that time.

In his last 6 healthy seasons, he's only missed out on an AS1-2 credential once (in a year when he was 5th in scoring), has outscored the healthy "generational talent" twice, and has 2 of the 3 highest-scoring Art Ross seasons in that time. He has 724 points in 514 games in that timeframe, with a healthy 0.11 P/G lead over the 3rd-best scorer. This goes along with 2 Cups where he was the leading scorer both times.

Kane was the model of excellence and consistency, but there is a reason people never brought him up as potentially generational. Kucherov in his peak has reached heights that Kane never did. Whether you hold his development years against him is a judgment call.

 

[SeaChaser]

Can we just enjoy watching hockey, whether you like, or dislike, certain teams or players? After a player hangs up his skates, then these meaningless classifications can added. I'm sure every player lays awake at night caring about what the HF thinks. Just enjoy hockey.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Again, what qualifies McDavid as a generational talent? Being Canadian?
He lost the Art Ross in his prime to "non generational players" Three Times.
Again, I did not say that Kucherov is gerational, I just said that if he isn`t so can`t be McDavid.
A generational player is head and shouders above his peers, unless one of his peers is generational, as well.
No one denies that McDavid is exceptional but there are a few players in his gneration that are right n his heels. Something that couldn`t be said about other generational players.

Uhm 5 art rosses, 40+ points in the playoffs? He's very much proven he's generational and no I consider Hasek to be a generational goalie so I dont think being Canadian is a prerqusite, and I disagree that he's hasn't earned the Lable

 

[Soundwave]

Again, what qualifies McDavid as a generational talent? Being Canadian?
He lost the Art Ross in his prime to "non generational players" Three Times.
Again, I did not say that Kucherov is gerational, I just said that if he isn`t so can`t be McDavid.
A generational player is head and shouders above his peers, unless one of his peers is generational, as well.
No one denies that McDavid is exceptional but there are a few players in his gneration that are right n his heels. Something that couldn`t be said about other generational players.

That kind of separation will never happen again because training and development of players is much more equally distributed today, the coaching from youth levels is way, way better, so one player who is creative and different isn't going to have that much of a leg up on anyone else.

Today you can just learn all the drills and training techniques that even top players use from using Youtube and get effectively elite level coaching from the age of 5-6 if you really want to push a kid that way.

It's like the NBA, Wilt Chamberlain was averaging like a ridiculous 50 ppg for a season (this would be like an NHL player scoring like 250-300 points in a season) back in the day ... but he also played in an NBA where there were barely any other 7 footers, far fewer teams, and the development of the sport was simply miles behind. Players didn't know how to defend someone as big and athletic as Wilt back in the day, today he probably would be good but he wouldn't be like that much better than the best All-Star level players if at all.

Michael Jordan didn't win the MVP every year, he didn't even win his first championship until age 28, but he's generally considered the best NBA player ever (above Wilt) even if they degree of scoring seperation from he peers of the time was less. He played in a better league, frankly.

 

[authentic]

Whether he is or not, to claim that he isn't on McDavid's level over the course of their careers would just be rejecting truth.

Kucherov has the 2nd and 3rd strongest Art Rosses, he is pretty close in points per game (it's not the Gretzky sitiation with Wayne having 2.2 PPG over the runner-up's 1.3 PPG), he outscored McD twice in full seasons (not just got the Forsberg Trophy for imaginary points), he has just had 100 assists as well, he does have the team success despite McDavid having the strongest teammate between the two (Draisaitl) and he shows no signs of slowing down despite being in his 30s.

People are struggling with accepting this because McDavid was called a prodigy and a generational talent since his early teens, and a Russian winger picked (somehow) in the 2nd round being just as good (or even just a little bit behind) is unthinkable, but it's the way things are.

Whether he’s generational or not is one thing but there’s no arguing the fact that McDavid is on another level as a player here, peak, prime and career. We’re talking about the 5th best player besides the big 4 of all-time vs. a potential top 25-30 player at best. There are players better than Kucherov right now who don’t really hold a candle to McDavid as an overall player. Did we not just see McDavid have 33 points in a 16 game playoff run, then post over 40 points while beating Gretzky’s playoff assists record and almost single handedly pulling off the 3-0 deficit to comeback for the Cup. These are players on different levels here, really not hard to see looking at the stats or watching them play.

 

[authentic]

Kucherov is at best slightly better than Patrick Kane was, he’s like if Kane played with better linemates in a more offensive era except he’s not nearly as clutch in big games. His stats in elimination games are more comparable to Matthews infact despite his overall great playoff stature. No one would tell you with a straight face that Patrick Kane is on McDavid’s level and the gap between him and Kucherov is razor thin.

 

[Cup or Bust]

Again, what qualifies McDavid as a generational talent? Being Canadian?
He lost the Art Ross in his prime to "non generational players" Three Times.
Again, I did not say that Kucherov is gerational, I just said that if he isn`t so can`t be McDavid.
A generational player is head and shouders above his peers, unless one of his peers is generational, as well.
No one denies that McDavid is exceptional but there are a few players in his gneration that are right n his heels. Something that couldn`t be said about other generational players.

McDavid is head and shoulders above his peers. His career points per game and assists per game is only behind the two greatest players in NHL history. He is likely to be the 4th fastest player in NHL history to get to 1,000 points. He has had seven 100 points seasons, only 3 players have had more and McDavid is only half way though his career. The amount of personal awards won so far in his career by age 27, only players like Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr are comparable in the entire history of the NHL. Not one single player in his age group currently in the NHL is even in the same galaxy when comparing their overall personal career achievements to his. If that is not generational, then no one will ever be generational again.