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Is mcdavid too good not to win a cup?

SirKillalot said:
You can say what you want, you are implying that Crosby did something magically different than McDavid defensively when he played that it was such a big factor that it outweighs him scoring 4 points in 7 games vs. McDavid scoring 11 points in 7 games in their respective final series, and that because McDavid didn't score in game 7 and they lost, and Crosby didn't score and they won, they won because of his defense, but Oilers didn't win because of McDavid of him not scoring 12-14 points in the series.

Fact is Penguins had better depth help offensively when it comes to a more rounded game, and more core depth in regards to goalies + better depth on defense. If Penguins was soo bad like many claim, Detroit would have scored 4-5 goals or won it in six games.

Fact is Penguins was a better team than what Penguins fans try to give them credit for.
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Fact is, Sid is a far better captain than McOverrated.
 
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nbwingsfan said:
When Fleury lets in goals: all his fault

When Skinner lets in goals: team defense (somehow usually McDavid’s) fault

Pens fans logic in a nutshell.
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The goals Fleury gave up are on YouTube. He literally put the puck in his own net.

It's a good thing people are able to use their eyes and evaluate performance and isolate it from their team. Well, some of us at least.

This is what terrible goaltending looks like, not letting in goals on numerous cross crease passes or guys between the circles with time and space:
 
Finals stats

Crosby
20pts 25gp +3
Scoreless in 12 of 25
5v5
405:15toi 16:12toi/g
12 pts (1.78 p/60)
14gf (2.07 gf/60) 12ga (1.78 ga/60) +0.29/60
AllStrenght
15tk 24gv

McDavid
11pts 7gp +5
Scoreless in 3 of 7
5v5
110:36toi 15:48toi/g
6 pts (3.25 p/60)
7gf (3.80 gf/60) 2ga (1.08 ga/60) +2.72/60
AllStrenght
10tk 8gv

Only 2 goals allowed in 110 minutes of 5v5 play for McDavid in the finals, but yeah sure, he didn't do enough. Lines with McDavid have produced almost at a double clip in the finals at 5v5 than lines with Crosby in the finals, while allowing close to 2/3 the goals on average.

McDavid only needs 9 pts in his next 18 finals games to catch-up to Crosby.
 
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NVious said:
I guess it's true, the Oilers are such a shit team outside of him and Drai it literally is all on him and Drai and if they don't have monster games, they're not going to win.
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nbwingsfan said:
So they need him to put up over 2ppg to even get to the game 7’s… and then also need him to score 2+pts in game 7s as well…

But sure, it’s all his fault
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Who the hell are you people even talking to right now. What you're saying isn't even close to what I said in direct responses to you. Repeatedly.

To NVious -- Oilers won game 7 against Vancouver and game six against Florida without McDavid's help offensively. Drai had a single assist in both those games (so 2 total assists in 2 games). Afaik we aren't talking about Drai at all, so not sure why you brought him up. Even still, I don't think any sane person would characterize Drai's 2 points in those two games as "monster games" and obviously the Oilers won those games. So no, it literally is not all on him and Drai, the team they have over there has shown they can win at times in the playoffs without monster games from those two.

To nbwingsfan -- no, they don't need McDavid to put up over 2ppg even get to game 7s. In fact McDavid didn't even average over 2ppg during the playoffs, 42 points in 25 games is 1.68 ppg which is slightly higher than his historical 1.61ppg. And Oilers won gm 6 without his offensive contributions, which we've been over already, they got to game 7 without him doing anything in game 6. Every would've known this even if I hadn't repeatedly brought it up. So wtf are you even talking about.

Also like I said, repeatedly, in multiple posts, it's not all his fault.

***

If you can't be bothered to understand a basic argument, I don't know why you're deciding to engage in conversation. Furthermore, it's not my responsibilty (nor is it anyone else's) to pretend we're in agreement with the imaginary voices in your heads
 
bambamcam4ever said:
The goals Fleury gave up are on YouTube. He literally put the puck in his own net.

It's a good thing people are able to use their eyes and evaluate performance and isolate it from their team. Well, some of us at least.

This is what terrible goaltending looks like, not letting in goals on numerous cross crease passes or guys between the circles with time and space:
Click to expand...

Skinner put a puck into his own net game one too… Fleury is atleast a first overall pick and has had a past history of great goaltending. Skinner and Pickard have no history at all, so saying they’ll magically improve if they play for say… Florida, just doesn’t make sense.

Not being able to track pucks and terrible lateral movement makes Skinner terrible. Those are vital goalie characteristics and he’s objectively terrible at them. Sure, Skinner is left out to dry sometimes, but he never comes away with a save, unlike Fleury who covered up Pens mistakes for example in 2017 Washington game 7. Or how about Fleury’s last minute save game 7 2009?. Replace him with Skinner, Skinner doesn’t catch that and it’s a tie game, where the Pens could lose the Cup in OT. You won’t win if your goaltender concedes on every mistake you make.
 
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It’s like the Rick Nash CBJ era. He has next to no supporting cast. Edmonton needs a roster overhaul. Find some quality depth for the bottom 6 and goaltending that can give you the save.
 
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Grate n Colorful Oz said:
Finals stats

Crosby
20pts 25gp +3
Scoreless in 12 of 25
5v5
405:15toi 16:12toi/g
12 pts (1.78 p/60)
14gf (2.07 gf/60) 12ga (1.78 ga/60) +0.29/60
AllStrenght
15tk 24gv

McDavid
11pts 7gp +5
Scoreless in 3 of 7
5v5
110:36toi 15:48toi/g
6 pts (3.25 p/60)
7gf (3.80 gf/60) 2ga (1.08 ga/60) +2.72/60
AllStrenght
10tk 8gv

Only 2 goals allowed in 110 minutes of 5v5 play for McDavid in the finals, but yeah sure, he didn't do enough. Lines with McDavid have produced almost at a double clip in the finals at 5v5 than lines with Crosby in the finals, while allowing close to 2/3 the goals on average.

McDavid only needs 9 pts in his next 18 finals games to catch-up to Crosby.
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Never realized how much better and more dominant McDavid is at gf/60 and ga/60 than Crosby. Can’t believe some are blaming the finals loss on him when he’s been on ice for 2 ga the entire seven games.
 
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miscs75 said:
It’s like the Rick Nash CBJ era. He has next to no supporting cast. Edmonton needs a roster overhaul. Find some quality depth for the bottom 6 and goaltending that can give you the save.
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McDavid has a LOT more roster support than Nash did. Drai and Bouchard, are better than any one CBJ during the Nash era, including Nash. Well maybe not Bouch, but close enough
 
Tacitus Kilgore said:
McDavid has a LOT more roster support than Nash did. Drai and Bouchard, are better than any one CBJ during the Nash era, including Nash. Well maybe not Bouch, but close enough
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Still a shallow roster nonetheless. If Tampa can do it with Kuch, Point and Hedman; Edmonton can figure it out with McDrai and Bouch.
 
edog37 said:
Fact is, Sid is a far better captain than McOverrated.
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I do
bambamcam4ever said:
The goals Fleury gave up are on YouTube. He literally put the puck in his own net.

It's a good thing people are able to use their eyes and evaluate performance and isolate it from their team. Well, some of us at least.

This is what terrible goaltending looks like, not letting in goals on numerous cross crease passes or guys between the circles with time and space:
Click to expand...

and skinner/Talbot have let in goals from the other end of the ice or shots going 2mph.

Hilarious that everything is Fleurys fault but everyone McDavids fault when the EDM goalies blow it.

Everyone sees your agenda, and it’s not a good look for you
 
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edog37 said:
Fact is, Sid is a far better captain than McOverrated.
Click to expand...
This is exactly why Crosby gets the backlash that he does here. All these “intangibles” such as better leadership, “sacrificing offense”, elite defense that Pens fans present as facts without any evidence what so ever. Crosby has had a wonderful career, there is no need to prop him up to a level he doesn’t belong in.
 
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edog37 said:
Fact is, Sid is a far better captain than McOverrated.
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Fact is Sid got bailed out by his team on multiple occasions and shamelessly got gifted two Conn Smythe's he didn't deserve.

Doesn't mean he wasn't among the better players on his team, but wasn't the best in any of the runs. Among top three-four yes.

When it comes to captaincy I don't think either of us will know. Let's not pretend Crosby was anything of a great captain in his first 10 years or so in the league, maybe more. He needed to mature into it. McDavid the same.

Neither is probably not remotely close to being top captains of all time.
 
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TheLegend27 said:
This is exactly why Crosby gets the backlash that he does here. All these “intangibles” such as better leadership, “sacrificing offense”, elite defense that Pens fans present as facts without any evidence what so ever. Crosby has had a wonderful career, there is no need to prop him up to a level he doesn’t belong in.
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Davers post back in the day about how Crosby is actually the reason Marchand became an elite player because he “played on his line” in the World Cup will forever live in infamy

It’s wild what Pens fans will come up with
 
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Miro4Norris said:
McDavid is Hellebuyck equivalent for forwards
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I know what you’re hinting at and I’ll be the first to say that McDavid’s playoff PPG rises from his already insanely high career PPG(third all time). Crosby’s numbers decline quite significantly in the playoffs. We can all see who the Hellebuyck is in this case.
 
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He has zero cups in 9 or something years. One very close call and couple other decent runs

We may of already seen peak McDavid too. He didn't look like himself for most of this year but obviously he is still a crazy talent regardless if he is peak or not

Edmonton management is doing their best to keep him from winning one. I really can't see him not winning one cup even if it takes him playing for league minimum later in his career somewhere. I expect him to be a very productive player even later in his career
 
Macheteops said:
He has zero cups in 9 or something years. One very close call and couple other decent runs

We may of already seen peak McDavid too. He didn't look like himself for most of this year but obviously he is still a crazy talent regardless if he is peak or not

Edmonton management is doing their best to keep him from winning one. I really can't see him not winning one cup even if it takes him playing for league minimum later in his career somewhere. I expect him to be a very productive player even later in his career
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Getting swept in the 3rd round isn’t a decent run
 
TheLegend27 said:
I know what you’re hinting at and I’ll be the first to say that McDavid’s playoff PPG rises from his already insanely high career PPG(third all time). Crosby’s numbers decline quite significantly in the playoffs. We can all see who the Hellebuyck is in this case.
Click to expand...
Nah buddy try Patrick Roy so it actually gets realistic with Stanley Cups, Conn Smythes and win%
 
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