Is mcdavid too good not to win a cup?

[SirKillalot]

No, I never said Sid would've scored if he played, like I said in last post, I legitimately forgot he got injured halfway through.

Meanwhile you seem to be doubling down on an argument that Sid being injured and on the bench for half the game is a similar situation to McDavid playing the whole game and not being able to generate offense when his team spent the entire game being tied or down a goal. It isn't.

You can say what you want, you are implying that Crosby did something magically different than McDavid defensively when he played that it was such a big factor that it outweighs him scoring 4 points in 7 games vs. McDavid scoring 11 points in 7 games in their respective final series, and that because McDavid didn't score in game 7 and they lost, and Crosby didn't score and they won, they won because of his defense, but Oilers didn't win because of McDavid of him not scoring 12-14 points in the series.

Fact is Penguins had better depth help offensively when it comes to a more rounded game, and more core depth in regards to goalies + better depth on defense. If Penguins was soo bad like many claim, Detroit would have scored 4-5 goals or won it in six games.

Fact is Penguins was a better team than what Penguins fans try to give them credit for.

 

[PainForShane]

You can say what you want, you are implying that Crosby did something magically different than McDavid defensively when he played that it was such a big factor that it outweighs him scoring 4 points in 7 games vs. McDavid scoring 11 points in 7 games in their respective final series, and that because McDavid didn't score in game 7 and they lost, and Crosby didn't score and they won, they won because of his defense, but Oilers didn't win because of McDavid of him not scoring 12-14 points in the series.

Fact is Penguins had better depth help offensively when it comes to a more rounded game, and more core depth in regards to goalies + better depth on defense. If Penguins was soo bad like many claim, Detroit would have scored 4-5 goals or won it in six games.

Fact is Penguins was a better team than what Penguins fans try to give them credit for.

I have no idea wtf you're talking about right now.

What I said was, in game 7 of the 2024 SCF, the Oilers lost because their offense was not up to speed and McDavid bears part of the blame for that, and that Stuart Skinner deserves no part of the blame for the loss. In that particular game.

In a discussion with you, I also said Sid's game 7 SCF performance / situation that year was not comparable to Connor's performance / situation last year, which is even more true than I'd originally thought given Crosby was injured for more than half the game.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

McDavids at nearly 2.5ppg

"Oh so his team must be killing it right?"

*Checks notes*

Down 2-1 and needed a third period comeback to prevent being down 3-0.

There is an average of 10 GPG this series, how Edmonton plays may have something to do with that

 

[GoldenSeal]

I want to see more of the Oilers from last night, THAT is the team they're meant to be, if they got the balls to step up like that every night.

If McDavid can lead that, this won't be a question anymore. This is all up to him, he needs to set the example and if the team is struggling, he needs to carry. Drai and him are their best players and if it takes them being a little greedy with the puck to put up goals, then be greedy.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Yeah I don't know whether this comparison applies here. In game 7, if Giguere had allowed 5 goals on 18 shots, and if the Ducks had lost 5-4, then yes, it would've been fair to blame Giguere for them for that loss. In reality, the Ducks scored no goals in their game 7 and Giguere allowed 3 off 25, he had average stats that game. But just like the Oilers in gm 7 last year, their offense didn't score, and that has nothing to do with the goalie. I'm not saying McDavid had a game equivalent to letting up 5 goals on 18 shots, but I'm using this extreme example to show how the original analogy doesn't apply.

Anyway, in McDavid's case, he played far below average offensively in his game 7, and the Edm offense didn't really get going until the middle of the third -- they only ended up scoring a single goal, which realistically isn't enough to give the team a chance to win. Especially not a team that's built around offense.

It's not McDavid's full fault, but he deserves a healthy portion of blame. Florida (and their coaching staff) deserve a lot of credit too for locking down defensively.

***

Meanwhile, McDavid is obviously a great player and one of the best to ever lace up skates. And he was also held pointless in the most important game of his life up till then. Imo, that last sentence is mostly under McDavid's control, and imo if he would've been average for him (1.6 rounded up -> 2 points) then the Oil win the cup last year, or at the very least they have a much better chance. And I think McDavid knows this too

And in the three most important games of his career right before that, he had a combined 8pts.

Basing anyone’s career off of one game is so ridiculously stupid.

 

[PainForShane]

And in the three most important games of his career right before that, he had a combined 8pts.

Basing anyone’s career off of one game is so ridiculously stupid.

At the moment, I'm not basing his career off of that one game.

I AM saying he didn't win the cup last year because of that one game. If he ends up never winning the cup over the course of his career, then that's probably a different discussion (hopefully one that we never have to have). Anyway, hopefully he and the team go on another few runs, we'll see

 

[Draiskull]

I don't think it's fair to blame McDavid's linemates. Edmonton has done a pretty good job of bringing in a supporting cast. The problem now is that the team is so old.

Kane - turning 34
Perry - turning 40
Arvidsson - 32
Henrique - 35
Hyman - turning 33
RNH - 32

That's not a recipe for success.

There's been poor development of forwards, poor asset management, and the team is running out of gas. Draisaitl and McDavid are 29 and 28; how long can you keep double shifting them for?

In 2026/27 there's a chance to overall things, but also the year that McDavid becomes a UFA.

The older players were brought in due to this cup window and all of them serve a great purpose.
As long as McDavid and Draisaitl are on the team they will keep attracting quality veterans who wish to go on cup runs for the next 6 yrs or so.

Also, the duo is getting doubleshifted because they want to be doubleshifted. Neither wants to be on the bench in critical situations.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Reminds me of Carey Price but the flipside. Absolutely brilliant player with little help who took bad teams a long way. Habs couldn't score and Oilers can't keep teams from scoring. Not Price's fault and not McDavid's.

McDavid is the 3rd highest PPG player in playoff history. He and Drai have done everything you can do to win but not win it. To me, it doesn't matter if he wins or not. But the Oilers absolutely have to get him some help.

 

[Ducks DVM]

Remember when Gretzky dragged LA, St Louis, and NYR to Cup wins by himself?

No, McDavid is not too good to not win a Cup. He needs to make decisions as to what organization is going to help him do so, be that Edmonton or elsewhere. Cups have always required teams.

 

[nbwingsfan]

At the moment, I'm not basing his career off of that one game.

I AM saying he didn't win the cup last year because of that one game. If he ends up never winning the cup over the course of his career, then that's probably a different discussion (hopefully one that we never have to have). Anyway, hopefully he and the team go on another few runs, we'll see

And if he didn’t go absolute beast mode and essentially single handedly win his team the games before… then there wouldn’t have even been a game 7 in the first place.

Something for some reason people can’t grasp

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

102 pts in his last 56 playoff games.

He's 77 points away from the all-time top 5 (201 pts, Crosby, Jagr). He'll probably get there by the time he's 32.

Truly one of the all-time bests.

The cup and longevity is all he's missing.

 

[PainForShane]

And if he didn’t go absolute beast mode and essentially single handedly win his team the games before… then there wouldn’t have even been a game 7 in the first place.

Something for some reason people can’t grasp

You realize he went scoreless in that game 7 against Vancouver right?

If he didn't single-handedly win game 7 against Vancouver... oh wait, he didn't. He went scoreless.
If he didn't single-handedly win game 6 against Florida... oh wait, he didn't. He went scoreless then too.

McDavid scored a ton of points during the run but he's far from the only reason they made it to game 7 that year, his teammates obviously contributed as well. Something for some reason people can't grasp

 

[NVious]

There is an average of 10 GPG this series, how Edmonton plays may have something to do with that

Yeah it's not the fault of the 39th/39 goalie in the last 3 playoffs (Skinner) or career AHLer Pickard, it's McDavid's fault.

 

[nbwingsfan]

You realize he went scoreless in that game 7 against Vancouver right?

If he didn't single-handedly win game 7 against Vancouver... oh wait, he didn't. He went scoreless.
If he didn't single-handedly win game 6 against Florida... oh wait, he didn't. He went scoreless then too.

McDavid scored a ton of points during the run but he's far from the only reason they made it to game 7 that year, his teammates obviously contributed as well. Something for some reason people can't grasp

He had 8pts in games 4 and 5 in the SCF. Eight.

We’re talking about a sweep if it wasn’t for him.

 

[nbwingsfan]

There is an average of 10 GPG this series, how Edmonton plays may have something to do with that

You don’t think that has to do with a career AHL and arguably the worst starter in the league tending the nets for them?

Hilarious seeing so many Pens fans changing their tune after blaming so much on Fleury when they kept blowing it in the post season.

 

[PainForShane]

He had 8pts in games 4 and 5 in the SCF. Eight.

We’re talking about a sweep if it wasn’t for him.

Well, we're talking about a 5 game loss if it wasn't for him. In gm 4 all of his points were scored after the team was already up two goals. And yes, his game 5 performance was impressive, incredibly so. Still has nothing to do with his game 7 performance, so I'm not sure why you brought this up.

Anyway if it wasn't for his teammates, we're most likely talking about a game 6 loss. And if we're really being honest, if it wasn't for his teammates we're almost certainly talking about a loss to Vancouver in a prior round, I mentioned this in the post you responded to, and I noticed you didn't mention that part of things.

Either way, what you said above isn't even close to McDavid "essentially single handedly (winning) the games before" game 7 which is what you claimed in the prior post I responded to.

***

If you want to keep moving the goalposts that's fine, but it might be quicker to just let everyone know where you'll decide to end up. That would save everyone the problem of correcting you every step of the way

 

[NVious]

Well, we're talking about a 5 game loss if it wasn't for him. In gm 4 all of his points were scored after the team was already up two goals.

Anyway if it wasn't for his teammates, we're most likely talking about a game 6 loss. And if we're really being honest, if it actually wasn't for his teammates we're also most likely talking about a loss to Vancouver two rounds prior, I noticed you didn't mention that part of things.

Obviously what you said above isn't even close to McDavid "essentially single handedly (winning) the games before" game 7 which is what you claimed in the post I just responded to.

***

If you want to keep moving the goalposts that's fine, but it might be quicker to just let everyone know where you'll decide to end up, that would save everyone the problem of correcting you every step of the way

When McDavid dominates in a historic fashion=cool he's supposed to do that
When McDavid doesn't score=wow total fraud, dude is relying on his teammates in a team sport

Ignore teams game planning for him and how this opens up a chance for others to thrive
Ignore teams stapling their best defensive options on him and how this opens up a chance for others to thrive

McDavid as of yesterday surpassed Lemieux for all time ppg in the playoffs, but he needs to do more ROFL.

 

[PainForShane]

When McDavid dominates in a historic fashion=cool he's supposed to do that
When McDavid doesn't score=wow total fraud, dude is relying on his teammates in a team sport

Ignore teams game planning for him and how this opens up a chance for others to thrive
Ignore teams stapling their best defensive options on him and how this opens up a chance for others to thrive

McDavid as of yesterday surpassed Lemieux for all time ppg in the playoffs, but he needs to do more ROFL.

No, McDavid isn't a total fraud when he doesn't score. He's obviously a great player.

But in order to win a cup, he probably needs to at least show up on the scoresheet in the most important games, which includes a game 7 in which Oilers lose by a single goal. If he doesn't, that's mostly on him.

And yes, that's more than what he did in last year's game 7. "ROFL"

 

[bambamcam4ever]

You don’t think that has to do with a career AHL and arguably the worst starter in the league tending the nets for them?

Hilarious seeing so many Pens fans changing their tune after blaming so much on Fleury when they kept blowing it in the post season.

Why do you act like the two have anything to do with each other? Fleury having the worst 4 year stretch in NHL playoff history is independent of the Oilers not playing defense. Skinner isn't a great goalie but he's given very little chance on many of these Kings' shots

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Yeah it's not the fault of the 39th/39 goalie in the last 3 playoffs (Skinner) or career AHLer Pickard, it's McDavid's fault.

Maybe he's ranked 39th because of how the team in front of him plays?

 

[BraveCanadian]

Really doesn’t matter how good he is.. still need the support around him to win just the same as all the best players of all time.

It’s a team game.

 

[NVious]

No, McDavid isn't a total fraud when he doesn't score. He's obviously a great player.

But in order to win a cup, he probably needs to at least show up on the scoresheet in the most important games, which includes a game 7 in which Oilers lose by a single goal. If he doesn't, that's mostly on him.

And yes, that's more than what he did in last year's game 7. "ROFL"

I guess it's true, the Oilers are such a shit team outside of him and Drai it literally is all on him and Drai and if they don't have monster games, they're not going to win.

 

[NVious]

Maybe he's ranked 39th because of how the team in front of him plays?

Or he's a 3rd round pick in over his head that the Oilers should've already replaced.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Why do you act like the two have anything to do with each other? Fleury having the worst 4 year stretch in NHL playoff history is independent of the Oilers not playing defense. Skinner isn't a great goalie but he's given very little chance on many of these Kings' shots

When Fleury lets in goals: all his fault

When Skinner lets in goals: team defense (somehow usually McDavid’s) fault

Pens fans logic in a nutshell.

 

[nbwingsfan]

No, McDavid isn't a total fraud when he doesn't score. He's obviously a great player.

But in order to win a cup, he probably needs to at least show up on the scoresheet in the most important games, which includes a game 7 in which Oilers lose by a single goal. If he doesn't, that's mostly on him.

And yes, that's more than what he did in last year's game 7. "ROFL"

So they need him to put up over 2ppg to even get to the game 7’s… and then also need him to score 2+pts in game 7s as well…

But sure, it’s all his fault