Is Marner slumping or is it Matthews?

  • Xenforo Cloud has upgraded us to version 2.3.6. Please report any issues you experience.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Auston Matthews is better than Draisatl at everything

The injury f***ed him up or he would’ve blown right by him

No doubt Mcdavid is by himself, but the closest player is Matthews not draisatl

I’ve never seen draisatl take over a game. It’s always mcdavid and draisatl is more of their Marner, where he just racks up points.

He is not better than Draisaitl at putting up points. We need to stop with thr inferiority complex of the guy who has a heart trophy and has out scored Matthews routinely.

Just accept that Matthews is a great player and that Draisaitl is well. They both do things really well. Draisatl is simply more offensively productive. Obviously, Matthews has a better 200 ft game.

Draisait had 105 points 2 years ago. He had 110 points in only 71 games last year, and was on pace for over 120. He has 50 points again this year and if the NHL's second leading score, WELL ahead of Auston Matthews... A little credit where it's due would be great. The guy is a point producing machine.
 
the first line seems to be quiet the past several games, i havent really tuned in to the games much but curious about the 1st line.

Is marner in a slump as in not making good plays etc which is resulting in the line going cold
or is matthews just not finishing?

Seriously how many posts has AM hit in the past 5-6 games.

Nothing to see here!
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Cobra
This is a bad post

Matthews is and has not shown to be a better offensive player than draisaitl the last 3 years. They are completely different level of players offensively since 2019

Draisaitl is clear cut 2nd best player in the league.

His play making is just to far above Matthews, for matthews to be ahead at the present time. Matthews needs to become a more dominant playmaker and start generating more chances for his wingersti get more assists and overcome the gap in production. Matthews has routinely had hot starts and cooled off so the injury excuse doesn't hold. Until he shows he can maintain that level of dominance across a full year it's all speculation. He is a 95-100 point elite center.

He is a franchise player and his two way gap closes the gap between him and Draisaitl but offensively draisaitl wins quite comfortably

What Draisaitl did last year matthews wont ever do, he cant put near 2 ppg with RNH and yammato level linemates for near 30ish games

Having Matthews ahead of draisaitl is pure leaf bias, until matthews actually does something to prove he is that level

Marner is also a better offensive player than Matthews. Marner drives the 1st line more often than Matthews and he is our best offensive option

Perfectly stated. If the roles were reversed and Toronto had Draisaitl, this fan base would be talking exclusively about how points are paramount and the Hart Trophy cements it. But because we have the better 200 ft player, and inferior point producer, suddenly that takes precedence.

All fan bases are loaded with homers, but posts like the one you responded to are the season Toronto's base is especially despised. The simple inability to appropriately credit one of the leagues most elite players, who has proved it through production, and has a Hart Trophy to back it up, is cringy and takes homerism to the level of potato.

Auston is an elite player. Love having him on our squad. He absolutely HAS NOT proven to be a better point producer than Leon Draisaitl. When Auston has a Hart Trophy to match the one that Draisaitl earned prior to the age of 25, or hell, even outscores Draisalt, one time, we can begin having the discussion.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hamzarocks
Perfectly stated. If the roles were reversed and Toronto had Draisaitl, this fan base would be talking exclusively about how points are paramount and the Hart Trophy cements it. But because we have the better 200 ft player, and inferior point producer, suddenly that takes precedence.

All fan bases are loaded with homers, but posts like the one you responded to are the season Toronto's base is especially despised. The simple inability to appropriately credit one of the leagues most elite players, who has proved it through production, and has a Hart Trophy to back it up, is cringy and takes homerism to the level of potato.

Auston is an elite player. Love having him on our squad. He absolutely HAS NOT proven to be a better point producer than Leon Draisaitl. When Auston has a Hart Trophy to match the one that Draisaitl earned prior to the age of 25, or hell, even outscores Draisalt, one time, we can begin having the discussion.

So I'm a Draisaitl fab, and he's an amazing player but that's unfair. Draistle didn't have a PPG season until his D+5.

Matthews first 4 NHL seasons he's outscored and outpaced Draisaitl's comparative ones in that range.
 
So I'm a Draisaitl fab, and he's an amazing player but that's unfair. Draistle didn't have a PPG season until his D+5.

Matthews first 4 NHL seasons he's outscored and outpaced Draisaitl's comparative ones in that range.

And Matthews has those seasons ahead of him. When he's routinely putting up 100+ points and has a Hart Trophy, or is at least a finalist a couple times, we can have this discussion further.

Matthews actually has to produce at the level we suspect he's capable of for multiple seasons, before we can crown him. Draisaitl is actually doing it.

I fully suspect it will be a conversation someday. Right now (age certainly has favoured Draisaitl in this discussion) it's no contest. The Matthews argument is all about projection. Draisaitl has actually done "it".
 
The only thing that should be concerning is that Matthews is a bit injury prone. Hopefully this doesn't become to consistent. Marners a beast . Its the constant line juggling and Matthews not being able to engage as much right now that's the problem I think.
 
Some of us really have to stop underselling Draisatl. This dude had 110 points in 71 games last year and you don't think he ever takes over games? What do you think he was doing while McDavid was injured last year?

He's definitely more cerebral than flashy but that dude is a damn efficient hockey player. Wins tons of battles, smart as hell, fantastic passer, and a deadly shooter. It just comes as super petty when some of us drag him down to feel better about Matthews.

I was responding to a post that made it sound like Matthews is so far behind him and mcdavid. Which is just stupid, put Matthews with mcdavid and let’s see what he can do there.

Every GM would take Matthews
 
  • Like
Reactions: The Cobra
This is a bad post

Matthews is and has not shown to be a better offensive player than draisaitl the last 3 years. They are completely different level of players offensively since 2019

Draisaitl is clear cut 2nd best player in the league.

His play making is just to far above Matthews, for matthews to be ahead at the present time. Matthews needs to become a more dominant playmaker and start generating more chances for his wingersti get more assists and overcome the gap in production. Matthews has routinely had hot starts and cooled off so the injury excuse doesn't hold. Until he shows he can maintain that level of dominance across a full year it's all speculation. He is a 95-100 point elite center.

He is a franchise player and his two way gap closes the gap between him and Draisaitl but offensively draisaitl wins quite comfortably

What Draisaitl did last year matthews wont ever do, he cant put near 2 ppg with RNH and yammato level linemates for near 30ish games

Having Matthews ahead of draisaitl is pure leaf bias, until matthews actually does something to prove he is that level

Marner is also a better offensive player than Matthews. Marner drives the 1st line more often than Matthews and he is our best offensive option

Matthews is considerably better in all comparable seasons. Draisatls point totals sure as shit shot up when mcdavid got there. Unless he magically got better at the same time mcdavid arrived, it’s clear to see mcdavid makes him better. He either plays with him or gets to play against easier competition away from him.

Matthews is unquestionably the better goal scorer

Draisatl plays with the best player I’ve ever seen. That doesn’t make him the 2nd best player when there’s guys like Mackinnon, Matthews, Hedman, Crosby and Kane in this league. You’d be hard pressed to find a non-Oilers fan who would take draisatl second.

That last bit is hilarious and just Matthews hate. Marner is not better than him at all. Matthews routinely makes great plays that Marner just can’t finish cuz his shot isn’t good. Marner shouldn’t get credit cuz Matthews finishes what he sets up. They’re both leafs, but saying Marner is better offensively is an outright lie. Matthews has a much more complete and effective offensive game.
 
He is not better than Draisaitl at putting up points. We need to stop with thr inferiority complex of the guy who has a heart trophy and has out scored Matthews routinely.

Just accept that Matthews is a great player and that Draisaitl is well. They both do things really well. Draisatl is simply more offensively productive. Obviously, Matthews has a better 200 ft game.

Draisait had 105 points 2 years ago. He had 110 points in only 71 games last year, and was on pace for over 120. He has 50 points again this year and if the NHL's second leading score, WELL ahead of Auston Matthews... A little credit where it's due would be great. The guy is a point producing machine.

Just look at Draisatl stats year by year

Mcdavid got hurt in his rookie season and then look at what happens after.

I’m not giving him credit for playing with Mcdavid. He’s a good player but my god is he overrated. On what planet is he the second best player in the league. No GM would take him second.
 
Matthews is considerably better in all comparable seasons. Draisatls point totals sure as shit shot up when mcdavid got there. Unless he magically got better at the same time mcdavid arrived, it’s clear to see mcdavid makes him better. He either plays with him or gets to play against easier competition away from him.

Matthews is unquestionably the better goal scorer

Draisatl plays with the best player I’ve ever seen. That doesn’t make him the 2nd best player when there’s guys like Mackinnon, Matthews, Hedman, Crosby and Kane in this league. You’d be hard pressed to find a non-Oilers fan who would take draisatl second.

That last bit is hilarious and just Matthews hate. Marner is not better than him at all. Matthews routinely makes great plays that Marner just can’t finish cuz his shot isn’t good. Marner shouldn’t get credit cuz Matthews finishes what he sets up. They’re both leafs, but saying Marner is better offensively is an outright lie. Matthews has a much more complete and effective offensive game.

Of course, Draisaitl got better once Mcdavid got there, he was a 2014 draft pick, and Mcdavid in 2015, he obviously improved in his D+2 from his D+1 and so on until he became a top 2 offensive player in the league. Your post makes no sense. Your acting like Draisaitl had years of underwhelming production and Mcdavid somehow came and saved his career.

Oilers have barely any offensive options so Draisailt on the 2nd line with the 2nd competition still is not getting easy matchups. Matthews got these matchups in 2018-2019 with JT-Marner being the 1st line and he ended up falling flat after a hot 16 in 7 opening ending around a 90ish point pace.

Draisaitl had a terrible D+1 where he was getting Oiler'ed and then a good D+2 playing around 6oish point pace in 2016(low scoring league so not too bad good low-end 1C production). His production kept improving as he progressed and matured with 2017 him being a top 10 producer and him becoming an unmatchable offensive force (outside of 97 and probably Kucherov) the past 3 years. Draisaitl is 2 years older than AM34, not 5-6 and his natural improvement is due to his crazy skill, natural talent and work ethic, not due to leeching off of Mcdavid

Matthews has not been a much better goal scorer than Draisaitl the past few years, they've produced roughly about the same though Matthews is a better natural scorer and can scorer in more ways. Matthews is better at goals and playing defense but Draisaitl has an insane gap in playmaking. Draisaitl is a 65-80 assist guy(80 being high-end). Matthews does not have the vision, IQ, or ability to break down defenses as he does in the offensive zone

Draisaitl has produced at a 110+ pt pace level with DRY, with no Mcdavid earlier this year. He is the clear cut 2nd best offensive player in the league, and your dislike for Edmonton fans (which is fair as a lot of them are dicks) makes you blind to how good he is as an offensive talent

Matthews has JT, Marner and Nylander who he plays/had played with on the PP. Your making excuses for Matthews inferior production to take away from Draisaitls dominance the past 3ish seasons

And Marner is a better offensive player than Matthews is not a complete offensive player. Matthews has always struggled to use his linemates, it's why he doesn't get assists like other elite 1C's. Matthews is still better and more valuable but offensively manner creates more no matter who he plays with and can run our PP which Matthews can (he is the finisher, not the play creator). Marner has a top 5 offensive package in the game. If his shot power/accuracy gets to the next level he will be hart/ross/Lindsay contender from the leafs
 
  • Like
Reactions: studebaker17
If it is matthews fault then we are paying $10.93m per year for a player who can’t produce when other elite talents can’t score for him that’s pretty bad.

I think they are both slumping, or at least I hope so
 
People have this unhealthy notion in mind that Toronto's guys are going to somehow going keep pace with McDavid and Draisaitl. It's just not going to happen.

Marner is on roughly a 100 point 82 game pace.

Matthews is on roughly a 100 point 82 game pace.

That's super elite man. It's not McDavid and Draisaitl, but it's still amazing.
But when term is considered Matthews and Marner are paid significantly more than McDrai.
 
Marner is taking a lot of shots this year on Matthews wing and that seems like a problem. If he had a shot like Nylander, fine. But when he’s forcing opportunities instead of facilitating a better look for Matthews I don’t think the Leafs are getting the right guy to pass and the right guy to shoot.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mats13
Neither... Matthews is hurt and marner just isn't that good
Marner had his 90+ point season without the Matthews. Matthews never put up those totals without Marner. Matthews instantly went from a 40+ goal scoring pace to a 60+ goal scoring pace when permanently paired with Marner.

As good as they both are, one guy clearly benefited/needed the pairing more than the other guy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: lipstickjunkie
Posters have no clue when it comes to these stupid statements.

These two can’t do it all.

Tavares and willy are the two dragging down the team.
 
I dunno when I watch Edmonton play Toronto it seems Matthews and Marner look more dominant 9/10 times. This goes back since their rookie seasons too.

Points isnt everything. Hence why guys like Bergeron and (peak) toews were so highly regarded.
 
Yup some Leaf fans just need to bitch and whine

Definitely. There is a cadre of "fans" who need a whipping boy to make themselves feel good. There is also the contingent who make a declaration and then refuse to acknowledge they were wrong and will stick to their mantra no matter what.

We know this doesn't always happen 100% of the time. Hyman is an example. There were so many who disrespected his game who now have been forced to recognize his excellence and skill set.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad