Is Kevin Lowe Still Running the Oilers?

[aufheben]

Sorry, I was quoting the user before about Chara without checking.

It absolutely does matter what he was seen as, because his moves produced a Stanley Cup winner and perennial contender.

And the goal posts keep moving here. I stated that he was seen as a great executive in the league for years. You can go back to 2011 and look at the threads on here if you don’t believe me.

I believe that people thought he was brilliant because they didn’t realize the core moves were made by Jeff Gorton.

 

[Seanaconda]

Chara was Gorton, too.

Isn’t that debatable it seems like some bruins fans say chia was running the team at that time in everything but name and he brought chara with him . But then the Marchand Kessel draft is also gorton

 

[Soundwave]

Because asset and talant management is a HUGE part of the role. There is no way, zero way that they knew what they had Marchand and Lucic. He He also traded for Chara, Peverly, Horton, Ference, Boychuk, Kelly and Seidenberg, who were all vitally important to that run.

Hate him all you want for the Oilers, but his fingerprints were all over that 2011 team.

There's also no urgent area on that Boston team that needed him to really work hard.

He just had to find role players, he got gifted Bergeron, Krejci, Kessel/Seguin, Marchand, Lucic, Thomas, Rask from day 1 and then used inside knowledge to get Chara from day 1. But that's not a repeatable management strategy.

In Edmonton he had a D-corps that had some big immediate issues, and he's been exposed as someone who doesn't know what he's doing. He panicked and traded for Reinhart and then got destoyed in a Hall trade and thought Lucic upfront would be a pivotal piece of his core, and in doing all that basically destroyed his forward depth too. Now he's stuck with a team where the forwards and D are both underwhelming.

It's not that hard to GM a team when you have great depth at center, good options at wing, a bonafied no.1 Norris contending D in his prime, and 2 good goalies from the start. There's no pressing huge need anywhere on that Bruins roster, he just had to add in some depth pieces.

In Edmonton where he was actually required to do some hard work, he's been exposed as a fraud.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

I believe that people thought he was brilliant because they didn’t realize the core moves were made by Jeff Gorton.

This is tedious. It matters as much that Gorton drafted Marchand and Lucic that Chiarelli helped properly develop and manage them for years until they were NHL ready. How many good GM’s have traded young 2nd round or late first round players because they didn’t know what they had? Almost all of them. Chai did that as well as surround them with the rest of the cup winning cast. The only two things he wasnt around for were Bergeron and Kreji’s drafts.

 

[aufheben]

Isn’t that debatable it seems like some bruins fans say chia was running the team at that time in everything but name and he brought chara with him . But then the Marchand Kessel draft is also gorton

I think there was some sort of stipulation at the time that Chiarelli wasn’t allowed to advise Boston about Ottawa’s free agents.

 

[vancityluongo]

I think there was some sort of stipulation at the time that Chiarelli wasn’t allowed to advise Boston about Ottawa’s free agents.

Correct

Bruins sign sought-after free agents Chara, Savard

The team fired general manager Mike O'Connell late last season and hired Ottawa assistant GM Peter Chiarelli to replace him last month. One of Chiarelli's first moves was to fire coach Mike Sullivan and replace him with former Detroit Red Wings coach Dave Lewis. Per the agreement between Boston and Ottawa, Chiarelli -- who does not officially take over the Bruins until July 15 -- wasn't allowed to advise Boston about any of the Senators free agents.

 

[Seanaconda]

I think there was some sort of stipulation at the time that Chiarelli wasn’t allowed to advise Boston about Ottawa’s free agents.

Yeah but it’s still pretty suspicious and he was hired before signing chara and that draft . So he either helped them under the table or it’s just gorton we will probably never know .

just seems odd the guy hired and waiting for the gm spot would have no imput on a massive ufa

 

[aufheben]

This is tedious. It matters as much that Gorton drafted Marchand and Lucic that Chiarelli helped properly develop and manage them for years until they were NHL ready. How many good GM’s have traded young 2nd round or late first round players because they didn’t know what they had? Almost all of them. Chai did that as well as surround them with the rest of the cup winning cast. The only two things he wasnt around for were Bergeron and Kreji’s drafts.

You’re giving Chiarelli credit for being patient with young players when he traded a 21-year-old Tyler Seguin?

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

You’re giving Chiarelli credit for being patient with young players when he traded a 21-year-old Tyler Seguin?

I’m using facts in an argument. His mishandling of Seguin has nothing to do with his correct handling of Lucic, Krejci, and Marchand.

 

[Kranix]

I’m using facts in an argument. His mishandling of Seguin has nothing to do with his correct handling of Lucic, Krejci, and Marchand.

What do you mean by handling? Those guys were good players who progressed, that also fit the Bruins "style" so he hung on to them.

 

[Seanaconda]

What do you mean by handling? Those guys were good players who progressed, that also fit the Bruins "style" so he hung on to them.

It was also marchands rookie season when they won their cup .

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

What do you mean by handling? Those guys were good players who progressed, that also fit the Bruins "style" so he hung on to them.

Player development is a massive part of drafting players. Whether it be building your minor league coaching staff, building culture, putting players in the best position to succeed, not giving up on them for established players... there’s a ton that goes into it. Do you think players are just drafted and then it’s some free for all for spots?

And Krejci was definitely not a “Bruins style” player.

 

[KCC]

I think it would be foolish to take that at face value, especially since it directly states that his job description is to work closely with Nicholson who Chairelli directly reports to. As well, his job description suspiciously is the only one out of the three Vice-Chair positions that omits working directly alongside Hockey Ops. I'm not sure I buy that for a second.

Chiarelli’s track record Started in Boston where he was just as bad. Was Lowe And all of edm’s management there also? People really need to stop with the conspiracy theories. Chiarelli is just a very bad gm.

 

[Kranix]

Player development is a massive part of drafting players. Whether it be building your minor league coaching staff, building culture, putting players in the best position to succeed, not giving up on them for established players... there’s a ton that goes into it. Do you think players are just drafted and then it’s some free for all for spots?

And Krejci was definitely not a “Bruins style” player.

Yes to the bolded. They're given a chance, and if they don't grab it they fall into oblivion.
Krejci was a crafty, puck possession playmaker who hustled his ass off.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Yes to the bolded. They're given a chance, and if they don't grab it they fall into oblivion.
Krejci was a crafty, puck possession playmaker who hustled his ass off.

Then I think you should probably do some research on NHL player development and why teams employ entire dev systems to support their prospects.

 

[Kranix]

Then I think you should probably do some research on NHL player development and why teams employ entire dev systems to support their prospects.

Of course they do. It's pro-sports. These multi-million dollar organizations all do it. Are you giving Chiarelli a medal because he worked for an org that dumps millions into their operations? When it comes down to it, it's up to the player.

 

[Seanaconda]

Then I think you should probably do some research on NHL player development and why teams employ entire dev systems to support their prospects.

Sure idk how much you give chia credit for that tho. Seguin kessel and wheeler all turned into superstars on different teams . Sure Boston also developed it's fair share of great players but it's not like they hit 100%

He definitely prefers guys that played that Boston / kings style that was dominant for a while .

 

[tony d]

He probably still has a say in how things are run but I think it's mainly Chia doing things now.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Of course they do. It's pro-sports. These multi-million dollar organizations all do it. Are you giving Chiarelli a medal because he worked for an org that dumps millions into their operations? When it comes down to it, it's up to the player.

I’m not sure how to communicate this to you any better. GM’s take it upon themselves to build their development systems. It’s why teams like the Flames couldn’t seem to develop a serviceable NHLer for 20 years in their system while Detroit was able to churn out successful player after player for almost a decade. Development systems matter for NHL success.

Of course it’s going to ultimately come down to the player, but the path that got them there is very important.

 

[Sugi21]

It's clearly a huge bureaucracy and we really have no idea how much influence Lowe has over Bobby who in turn has influence over Chiarelli.

The reason they have a bunch of Vice Chairs is because Katz wants to hang out with some of the Oilers from the Dynasty days (when he was growing up). He's a billionaire child and can't separate the personal from his business. Maybe he hasn't accepted the fact that owning a sports team isn't a hobby when you sell your actual business; you see this a lot with rich people who own racing teams (boats/cars/motorcycles). At first it's something they throw money at and do for fun. Once you sell your actual business and the Sports franchise becomes a full-time gig, you can't keep running it like a hobby because the seed money dries up (except in Canada where it apparently funds itself no matter how **** it is). If he ran the Oilers like his pharmacy chain, I'm sure the team would be in a much better spot. I'm skeptical about how much influence all of these Vice chairs have, I think it's just dead weight and fake job titles to keep his famous "friends" around, but who knows - they aren't public and aren't required to disclose anything to us.

On a side note - Katz was caught trying to pay an actress for sex, so he is clearly a giant piece of scum...I hope his son is legitimate (not like that... a legitimate owner of course) when the torch is passed to him.

Too many chefs in the kitchen and as an owner Katz should be surrounding himself or at least hire legit hockey minds. The OBC were some of the best guys at hockey but sorely lack any intelligence to run and manage a hockey team at this level even though Lowe had a decent few seasons at the helm but that was a different era compared to now. It’s a pretty sad state of affairs when an armchair GM can probably do a better job than Chiarelli or any of the OBC could!!!

 

[Kranix]

I’m not sure how to communicate this to you any better. GM’s take it upon themselves to build their development systems. It’s why teams like the Flames couldn’t seem to develop a serviceable NHLer for 20 years in their system while Detroit was able to churn out successful player after player for almost a decade. Development systems matter for NHL success.

Of course it’s going to ultimately come down to the player, but the path that got them there is very important.

Is this sarcasm or hyperbole? Lydman, Morris, Gauthier, Regher, Saprykin, Nystrom, Kobasew, and more, further back and ahead. You think Rico Fata turns into a Selke winner if he's being "handled" by Ken Holland?

 

[North Cole]

Too many chefs in the kitchen and as an owner Katz should be surrounding himself or at least hire legit hockey minds. The OBC were some of the best guys at hockey but sorely lack any intelligence to run and manage a hockey team at this level even though Lowe had a decent few seasons at the helm but that was a different era compared to now. It’s a pretty sad state of affairs when an armchair GM can probably do a better job than Chiarelli or any of the OBC could!!!

Lowe could at least win a trade and had a nice deadline pickup or two, but Pronger was a gift. Pronger for Eric Brewer, Doug Lynch, and Jeff Woywitka... That deal on the STL end makes some of the Chia's trades look like gold.

On the whole, Lowe (as arrogant of a prick he is) was better than Chia because he at least minimized the damage. Don't want either of them though

This Koskinen deal for example it's just way to aggressive, for no real reason. Why did we need to give him 3 years? Chiarelli seems like the guy who decides at the very last second whether he is going to shit or get off the pot, when he gets off the pot it's fine. When he shits it's a disaster, because he pulls the trigger on stupid things without seemingly doing research or thinking it through. Could be the OBC, could just be him. Who knows.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

I

Is this sarcasm or hyperbole? Lydman, Morris, Gauthier, Regher, Saprykin, Nystrom, Kobasew, and more, further back and ahead. You think Rico Fata turns into a Selke winner if he's being "handled" by Ken Holland?

It’s 100% fact. The Flames had one of the single worst development systems in the league. One of Darryl Sutters greatest accomplishments was setting up the Flames dev program and building the minor league system, as they had been sharing an AHL team with the Carolina Hurricanes. The only impact player the Flames drafted and produced in house from 1997-2011 was Dion Phaneuf (and now Backlund years later). Taking away the 04 goggles, every other guy that’s posted there was a dime a dozen player.

 

[RalphKing]

Lowe is a better gm than Chiarelli. So is Tambellini.

 

[Kranix]

I

It’s 100% fact. The Flames had one of the single worst development systems in the league. One of Darryl Sutters greatest accomplishments was setting up the Flames dev program and building the minor league system, as they had been sharing an AHL team with the Carolina Hurricanes. The only impact player the Flames drafted and produced in house from 1997-2011 was Dion Phaneuf (and now Backlund years later). Taking away the 04 goggles, every other guy that’s posted there was a dime a dozen player.

You said serviceable NHLer. So two impact players between 97 and 2011, so much for Darryl's dev program.