Is Kevin Lowe Still Running the Oilers?

[Karamazov]

If it walks like a duck...

There's your proof, McDNicks17. It's called "correlation," which, in case you didn't know, is latin for "proof."

Thread timeline:
1. The OP used the disparity between Chiarelli's "brilliant" job with the Bruins and his "work" with the Oilers as evidence that Lowe is secretly in charge of hockey ops.

2. Posters respond that he may not have been so brilliant, and this is actually pretty consistent Chiarelli. Look how that duck walked from one team to the next! A logical, observable explanation has emerged to answer the question posed in post #1 and everyone celebrates.

3. OP rejects logical and likely explanation (screw you, Occam!) and doubles down on a shadowy cabal manipulating a brilliant GM, now defends the positive impact Chia had in Boston to preserve the narrative yarn, and is elaborating on the importance of intangible-adjusted advanced stats when evaluating General Managers (good player x positivity/ Bruins system = stays good player?).

Have I got it?

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

That the president of hockey operations only has control of the team when Kevin Lowe isn't in the organization?

Who was above Lowe when he was POHO?

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

If Messier isn't the next GM or in some capacity related to the role, I wager he leaves the Oilers...he's been waiting since his Ranger days.

Why is Messier missing from the OEG lol

 

[Smartguy]

At this point, bring Lowe back, he wasn’t gifted a generational talent

 

[Matty Sundin]

For as awful Kevin Lowe is I dont think he would of been on board trading Taylor Hall and if he was I doubt Lowe would of traded him for a very average dman.

Chia also traded Seguin and Bruins had nothing to show for it 3 years later.

 

[OilCanada92]

Who was above Lowe when he was POHO?

Patrick La Forge and Katz.

 

[North Cole]

Gifts only count if you can materialize. Edmonton made the cup with Pronger which was good. They drafted Eberle with the pick they received when they traded Pronger. We all know what happened to Eberle. Terrible resource management. The cap can't be blamed for that.

We go nowhere near that cup final if we arent gift wrapped pronger by pleau. Can lowe be blamed for what happened to eberle?

Chia is worse than useless. At least a useless GM will do nothing.

 

[Kimota]

I love seeing Oilers fans praise Kevin Lowe. People have a short memory when he was there, it was far worse than Chirelli. People wanted to chase him out of the town, Oilers were the laughing stock of the league. McTavich left as coach then they bring him back as GM, it was non-stop stuff like this. Oilers kept sucking and everybody was like "why aren't they trading Hall and Eberle, these kids are spoiled brats!". EVERYBODY was saying they should trade Hall and Eberle(and RNH). I watched every damn TV sport shows(in english and french) and it was anonymous that these three kids should go cause they were in a losing culture. Chia is the first GM that has the guts to do it and suddenly he's a pariah. I guess it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. And now Lowe is "not so bad" compared Chia? Give me a break.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

Patrick La Forge and Katz.

Exactly. Actual business professionals with a clear separation from hockey ops.


I honestly can’t believe the Lowe apologists. He was easily one of the worst GM tenures ever after 06.

 

[OilCanada92]

Exactly. Actual business professionals with a clear separation from hockey ops.


I honestly can’t believe the Lowe apologists. He was easily one of the worst GM tenures ever after 06.

And everything we've been told says Bob Nicholson is Chiarelli's boss and Lowe is on the business side of the OEG. If you want to choose to ignore that, that's your call.

And what was so bad about Lowe after 2006? Which, by the way, was only 2 summers. He had a 5 year plan that Pronger blew up but he still managed to bring in guys like Souray and Visnovsky before handing the reins to Tambellini. The Oilers went to the finals in 2006, regrouped in 2007 and finished 9th in the conference in 2008. Then Lowe stopped being GM and everything fell apart.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

And everything we've been told says Bob Nicholson is Chiarelli's boss and Lowe is on the business side of the OEG. If you want to choose to ignore that, that's your call.

And what was so bad about Lowe after 2006? Which, by the way, was only 2 summers. He had a 5 year plan that Pronger blew up but he still managed to bring in guys like Souray and Visnovsky before handing the reins to Tambellini. The Oilers went to the finals in 2006, regrouped in 2007 and finished 9th in the conference in 2008. Then Lowe stopped being GM and everything fell apart.

Jesus Christ, are you serious? The staois, Moreau, and pisani contracts. Trading Smyth over 100k for nothing. The Vanek offer sheet which would have lost Hall. The Penner offersheet. Chasing Hossa a 10 year 90 million dollar contract while tossing aside Glencross who burned the Oil for years after. The Souray contract (who no one else was bidding for). Passing over Parise (and Richards, Perry and Kesler) for Pouliot. Horcoff’s contract. The handling of Souray’s injury (as POHO). Demanding Comrie repay his signing bonus. Hiring Tambellini. Hiring MacTavish.

The majority of this happened within 3 seasons.

Did I miss something? Oh and isolating himself from a big chunk of GM’s in the league because of his behaviour.

 

[OilCanada92]

Jesus Christ, are you serious? The staois, Moreau, and pisani contracts. Trading Smyth over 100k for nothing. The Vanek offer sheet which would have lost Hall. The Penner offersheet. Chasing Hossa a 10 year 90 million dollar contract while tossing aside Glencross who burned the Oil for years after. The Souray contract (who no one else was bidding for). Passing over Parise (and Richards, Perry and Kesler) for Pouliot. Horcoff’s contract. The handling of Souray’s injury (as POHO). Demanding Comrie repay his signing bonus. Hiring Tambellini. Hiring MacTavish.

The majority of this happened within 3 seasons.

Did I miss something? Oh and isolating himself from a big chunk of GM’s in the league because of his behaviour.

What was wrong with Staios and Moreau's contracts?

I was okay with trading Smyth. He was lucky he got the Oilers up to 5.4M. Didn't like the return but I think he got greedy.

The Oilers probably aren't drafting Hall if they have Vanek. That would have taken the team down a completely different road.

I didn't have an issue with the Penner contract. A 1st, 2nd and 3rd for a guy who led the team in goal scoring in 2 of the 3 full seasons he was here and was tied with Hall when he was traded.

I liked Souray while he was hire. It's too bad he ran into Iginla because he was a good Oiler.

I agree on Hossa and Glencross but no GM is perfect.

Your other points didn't happen between 2006-2008. If you're going to bash him for the stuff that happened before 2006, you have to mention the good things he did with a very limited budget as well.

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

What was wrong with Staios and Moreau's contracts?

I was okay with trading Smyth. He was lucky he got the Oilers up to 5.4M. Didn't like the return but I think he got greedy.

The Oilers probably aren't drafting Hall if they have Vanek. That would have taken the team down a completely different road.

I didn't have an issue with the Penner contract. A 1st, 2nd and 3rd for a guy who led the team in goal scoring in 2 of the 3 full seasons he was here and was tied with Hall when he was traded.

I liked Souray while he was hire. It's too bad he ran into Iginla because he was a good Oiler.

I agree on Hossa and Glencross but no GM is perfect.

Your other points didn't happen between 2006-2008. If you're going to bash him for the stuff that happened before 2006, you have to mention the good things he did with a very limited budget as well.

- Lowe tied up 7.2 million dollars in long term contracts to three 30+ players coming off career years when the salary cap was 39 million dollars.
- Smyth was the Oilers MVP and the heart of the dressing room. The Oilers lost so much more than just a player. Was he worth 5.4? Debatable. Trading him over 100k and getting NOTHING in return? Horrendous.
- That path would have been infinitely worse, as they probably would have still ended up in the bottom of the league but without a first rounder FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS. And the only thing they would have gotten was a streaky top 6 player
- The Penner contract was horrible for the cap management, the impact it had on the Oilers reputation, and the impact it had on the rest of the league with RFA's getting massive second contracts. Plus he only scored more than 50 points ONCE in his time in Edmonton. 4.2 million dollars in 2007 for a guy who averaged less than 40 points a season is a nightmare.
- Souray was a great player. But the contract he was signed to was a huge overpayment and it came out afterwards that Lowe was bidding with no one else. It was a terrible, terrible contract.
- The Hossa contract would have crippled the Oilers, and would have been the worst offender on this list if it wasn't for Vanek.

These are not small mistakes. Most GM's don't even make one or two of these mistakes in their career. Lowe made them all in three years.

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

What total dysfunctional and incompetence shown by all the Oilers executives and owner. They allow Chiarelli to ink a very questionable contract with Koskinen and then they fire Chiarelli a few days later.
Lowe, Nicholsen, McTavish....useless as hockey executives.

 

[Absurdity]

He probably is now.

 

[Beerfish]

Any oiler fan truly wanting lowe back has stockholm syndrome.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

- Lowe tied up 7.2 million dollars in long term contracts to three 30+ players coming off career years when the salary cap was 39 million dollars.
- Smyth was the Oilers MVP and the heart of the dressing room. The Oilers lost so much more than just a player. Was he worth 5.4? Debatable. Trading him over 100k and getting NOTHING in return? Horrendous.
- That path would have been infinitely worse, as they probably would have still ended up in the bottom of the league but without a first rounder FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS. And the only thing they would have gotten was a streaky top 6 player
- The Penner contract was horrible for the cap management, the impact it had on the Oilers reputation, and the impact it had on the rest of the league with RFA's getting massive second contracts. Plus he only scored more than 50 points ONCE in his time in Edmonton. 4.2 million dollars in 2007 for a guy who averaged less than 40 points a season is a nightmare.
- Souray was a great player. But the contract he was signed to was a huge overpayment and it came out afterwards that Lowe was bidding with no one else. It was a terrible, terrible contract.
- The Hossa contract would have crippled the Oilers, and would have been the worst offender on this list if it wasn't for Vanek.

These are not small mistakes. Most GM's don't even make one or two of these mistakes in their career. Lowe made them all in three years.

I just wanna say f*** regier for waiting long enough for that offer sheet to happen, then matching it and letting briere and drury walk. I mean, as long as we’re talking franchise ruining GMs.. the salt I feel for letting briere go for an overpaid vanek is still real.

 

[Seanaconda]

I just wanna say **** regier for waiting long enough for that offer sheet to happen, then matching it and letting briere and drury walk. I mean, as long as we’re talking franchise ruining GMs.. the salt I feel for letting briere go for an overpaid vanek is still real.

Didn't they already walk and then he felt like he had to match it to not lose all three ?

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Didn't they already walk and then he felt like he had to match it to not lose all three ?

My memory may be faulty here, but I don’t think so? Word was Briere was in mid season for 5 years at 5 mil but regier didn’t negotiate midseason. Then the offer sheet for vanek was made, he matched, and then he chased drury who was gone anyways cause he’d always loved the rangers. Like.. how is that not communicated? How does regier miss that? Once again, might have my order wrong, but either way.. Jesus what a shitshow of resignings or lackthereof. A 17 year old vanek-loving me knew he’d done goofed, amazing he kept his job after that.

 

[karnige]

no this had the markings of chiarella. big bodys that tht are slow and heavy. cap hell. Lowe liked fast talent which ironicly would work in today's nhl

 

[klozge]

At this point, bring Lowe back, he wasn’t gifted a generational talent

Yes, please do!

 

[Walkingthroughforest]

My memory may be faulty here, but I don’t think so? Word was Briere was in mid season for 5 years at 5 mil but regier didn’t negotiate midseason. Then the offer sheet for vanek was made, he matched, and then he chased drury who was gone anyways cause he’d always loved the rangers. Like.. how is that not communicated? How does regier miss that? Once again, might have my order wrong, but either way.. Jesus what a ****show of resignings or lackthereof. A 17 year old vanek-loving me knew he’d done goofed, amazing he kept his job after that.

Drury and Briere were long gone at this point. Darcy couldn’t lose Vanek as well that summer or the fans would literally burn the arena down.

 

[Hynh]

For as awful Kevin Lowe is I dont think he would of been on board trading Taylor Hall and if he was I doubt Lowe would of traded him for a very average dman.

Chia also traded Seguin and Bruins had nothing to show for it 3 years later.

Larsson is the modern day Kevin Lowe and Hall is some punk kid keeping #4 from being retired

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Drury and Briere were long gone at this point. Darcy couldn’t lose Vanek as well that summer or the fans would literally burn the arena down.

Ah, got my order wrong then- hindsight is 20/20, but I’d say that’s why you don’t listen to fans. The return woulda been insane, and after losing those two it should have been clear we were more rebuilding than still contending. I loved Vanek, but remember thinking “that’s a lot of 1sts.. probably better to take the picks.”

 

[smitty10]

I think you're giving Chia way to much credit and Lowe too much responsibility in all this.

The trades and signings Chiarelli made in Edmonton were reminiscent of what he did in Boston. He tried to recreate his Boston team that was full of size, grit and strength instead of modernizing to skill and speed.

- He handled the Taylor Hall and Tyler Seguin situations very similarly and received underwhelming return for both.

- He brought in Milan Lucic, a player that he trusted from Boston.

- He traded a boatload for Griffin Reinhart, a rugged stay at home defenceman who played the old style of hockey Chia was trying to build his team around.

- He traded Jordan Eberle, a player who he felt had attitude issues (ala Seguin, Hall) for a weak return.

- He acquired Manning and Petrovic, both big, stay at home defencemen.

- He acquired and re-signed Zack Kassian to a very generous contract.

There are more moves he made, but all of these show a pattern of adding size and grit while ignoring skill and speed. He's the victim of his old school philosophy about building a team from the back-end out and undervaluing skill and speed. Sure, maybe Lowe is to blame because he bought into this philosophy. The moves however have Chia all over them.