1) our defense is so so and has been for the past 4 years. We need a mix of veterans and youth. Our GM can't be paying older veterans too much money with contracts that are too long. It is OK to overpay for short term contracts. The GM must know when to cut lose the loser Veterans he over paid with terms too long because of age and injuries that will be a distraction to the success of the team. The GM must hire coaches that will teach, work with and allow mistakes so as to build confidence with the youth so they can take over for the ageing Veterans that are being overpaid on shorter contracts (assuming we ever get there, history has proven we offer too long with contracts and get burned by them) need I tell you who I am talking about this season and there are many examples in past seasons, does that makes sense. Who owns this problem? What can be done to fix it? Sounds like double firing, just kidding, double getting rid of with class. On to number 2, later.
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CKPLAYA
Ping Pong Ball Enthusiast
yes. I am saying a complete unknown can do a better job. That is, an unknown to us. And I am using Lou himself as the precedent. You do relize Lou was a complete unknown when he was hired right? He had no NHL experience. My point is, when it comes to GM's there is a wider spectrum of candidates to choose from that can do a good job. Again, using Lou himself as an example.
Lou sucks...but Brian Burke is good
I am not sure he is good but a change for the Devils is needed and maybe a second shot for a new GM will give him the glory. We learn from our mistakes, well some do, not Lou he continues to repeat same **** year in and year out.
Point being a change is necessary we can't fire all the Devils players, so who's will it be
billingtons ghost
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2010
- 10,700
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Or, better, let's start threads about firing the only source of stability this franchise has - with new ownership, defections of star players and an embattled coach. On the heels of an offseason where he was universally lauded in doing pretty much all he could do. So he can be replaced by...
oh, I don't know, I just want him fired. 'Unknown' guy will do a better job.
People obviously haven't rooted for a team with a bad GM before, I guess.
Brilliant.
billingtons ghost
Registered User
- Nov 29, 2010
- 10,700
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This is absolutely true - and right now you have:
Volch Zids
Larsson Gelinas
Greene Fayne
so that's a perfect balance of Old, core, and new.
Your point about 'getting rid of' old deadwood is a good one, except that it is monday morning QB'ing. Tallinder <gone> and Volch were signed to market contracts at the time. That's what you get for going after the two best FAs in the class as holdovers until the youth gets there. You can knock Lou that Sal got too long a term.
They can't trade Volch, and they couldn't just eat his contract with the money issues. I would have amnestied him, or at least waived him to see if he would have gotten picked up. That said, he's playing his best hockey in two years, so oh well.
ThePSEGPowerPoster
LOSER POINTS!
- Feb 23, 2013
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The sense of entitlement you have to expect a good team, a playoff team, every year - that sense of entitlement - Lou Lamoriello gave it to you. Because before Lou Lams was here this franchise was an embarassment.
Even if you believe he has been exposed (he hasn't in my opinion) he has earned the right to go out on his terms.
You're talking 21 appearances in the last 25 years. Do you know that there's only one other franchise who has topped that? The Detroit Red Wings with 22/25.
I understand this is a "what have you done for me lately" world but seriously, we're doing this with Lou now?
Captain Lou
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2004
- 4,347
- 49
And Lou has changed with the times, at least as far as drafting mobile defensemen and signing players before they hit UFA. Honestly, this is all about Zajac and Henrique. If they do not live up to their contracts, that is not Lou's fault.
Zajac was signed at market value. He was an elite shut down center with multiple 60 point seasons at the time of his signing. He is also the only person on this team who can win a ****ing faceoff. People can say in hindsight he's nothing without Parise, but there really wasn't any way to say that with confidence back then, and was it worth the risk of losing him to find out? If Zajac went to 7/1, he'd be playing somewhere else. Plus this place was doing backflips when he inked the deal.
Same with Henrique. Very comparable contract to other players in his "peer group". That contract eats up UFA years and has no NTC. Lou did his work with Adam as well.
It is up to Zajac and Henrique to earn their money. Lou paid them, as he should have. He made the proper decision on both players. Now it's on them.
Zajac was signed at market value. He was an elite shut down center with multiple 60 point seasons at the time of his signing. He is also the only person on this team who can win a ****ing faceoff. People can say in hindsight he's nothing without Parise, but there really wasn't any way to say that with confidence back then, and was it worth the risk of losing him to find out? If Zajac went to 7/1, he'd be playing somewhere else. Plus this place was doing backflips when he inked the deal.
Same with Henrique. Very comparable contract to other players in his "peer group". That contract eats up UFA years and has no NTC. Lou did his work with Adam as well.
It is up to Zajac and Henrique to earn their money. Lou paid them, as he should have. He made the proper decision on both players. Now it's on them.
aboriginal
lou ****ing sucks
The team stinks.....so naturally the best course of action is to dress a goon over someone with actual hockey skills. Makes sense.
MrLouniverse
frontline internet hero
glenwo2
JESPER BRATWURST
MartyOwns
thank you shero
- Apr 1, 2007
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I wish there was a way to offload severson and gelinas as well. both are dime a dozen (20 cents for 24). then we'd be in good shape
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
such a stud that he was healthy scratched on a team with a bad defense. give him the Norris now.
MartyOwns
thank you shero
- Apr 1, 2007
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good point. who do you think will win the Norris first? fayne or larsson?
Zajacs Bowl Cut
Lets Go Baby
classic case of "I have nothing else to add to the argument, so I will turn the attention to other players"
bravo. excellent work.
ThePSEGPowerPoster
LOSER POINTS!
- Feb 23, 2013
- 11,822
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The Urbom argument is silly because he's nowhere near his prime. The idea that anyone can say he's going to be a stud or "he's a dime a dozen" is ridiculous to me. There are so many factors in play here that can drastically change the career path of a very raw and talented NHL talent. It constantly boggles my mind how impatient, rather, how quick to draw conclusions some posters are when it comes to young players.
If it were this easy to identify a "dime a dozen" player, simply by watching him play in a handful of games, professional scouts would "hit" a lot more than they do and "miss" a lot less. So here you have a few guys who have literally watched Urbom play a handful of games, maybe read a few scouting reports, maybe glanced at some statistics - conclude that he's a "dime a dozen" player. (And the contrast is equally ridiculous, ie. Urbom will be a stud).
The people most familiar with Urbom let him go in hopes that they would get him back. It was a desperate situation. And they lost him to the guy who probably knows him second best. So people closest to the guy seem to think he has room to grow. Yet, people here are so quick to dismiss him and I will never understand it.
If it were this easy to identify a "dime a dozen" player, simply by watching him play in a handful of games, professional scouts would "hit" a lot more than they do and "miss" a lot less. So here you have a few guys who have literally watched Urbom play a handful of games, maybe read a few scouting reports, maybe glanced at some statistics - conclude that he's a "dime a dozen" player. (And the contrast is equally ridiculous, ie. Urbom will be a stud).
The people most familiar with Urbom let him go in hopes that they would get him back. It was a desperate situation. And they lost him to the guy who probably knows him second best. So people closest to the guy seem to think he has room to grow. Yet, people here are so quick to dismiss him and I will never understand it.
If someone dares to go against Lou, you'll flip out because of what he did in the past 15 years but since the cap era, he's been below average and that's a fact and not a opinion.
Name me just one other organisation that keeps losing their best player for "greener pastures", year after year? That's right, the only name that comes to mind is the New Jersey Devils. Lou doesn't want to talk contract extention during the season because it's a distraction, well guess what, losing a stud player for free is more of a distraction the following year fo the entire team. Why do we see key players get resigned during the season everywhere else but here? Are you actually telling me that Lou can't talk directly with a agent just to get a feel of what to expect during the summer, without involving the player? You don't think that the agent is pissing in his clients ear about the type of deal he could get during the summer since Lou is willing to waste the entire season when talking about negotiating a new deal? If the pending UFA waited the entire year to talk contract, he'll definitly wait another couple of weeks to see what the rest of the league has to offer as well and that's pretty easy to see... you don't have to be a agent to figure that out.
Lou is willing to let certain players go cause he doesn't want to overpay and I get that but on the other hand, he's overpaying his UFA's cause it's just the nature of the beast when dealing with players who are free of choosing their team come july 1st. On top of overpaying his "new toys", he's handing NTC/NMC like they're running out of style.
I just want us to face reality head on and the reality of our team is this... we're old, we're slow, we don't have anything special in our pipeline and yet, we went out and landed a bunch of UFA's to try and glue together a team that doesn't have a solid base to begin with. Zajac isn't a core player, he's a effective player in the role he plays but you don't build your franchise around a guy like that. Henrique had a fantastic rookie year and a solid playoff in our cup run but he's still unproven. Outside of those two players, who else do we have? Schneider? We landed a very promising netminder who's entering his prime years but is someone who's entering his prime will want to stay on team who's on the decline? I've been rooting for the Devils for the past 20 years and even I wouldn't want any part of what's to come if I was in Cory's shoes but who knows, he might have a different approach on the matter.
Lou is nothing short of a wizard when he has key pieces to work around but ATM, that's not the case. The man needs to realise that rebuilding your team after two decades of dominating the Eastern conference is expected. The best teams don't stay on top forever and if you can't keep your best players, whatever the reason might be, you'll eventually run out of luck and that's exactly what's going on with our team. Martin Brodeur can't do what he's done for us forever... he can't "camouflage" our weaknesses anymore, so we're getting exposed.
Trying to salvage a sinking ship with a "patch up job" is probably the worst idea you can have cause you're basically screwed with big expensive contracts when entering a transition phase. We're close to the bottom of the standings and we signed a bunch of veteran UFA's who we'll have on the books for multiple years now.
JerryGigantic
Old Skool
I have avoided this thread because I assume it is a whiny, childish cesspool of overly entitled fans of recent vintage (and will only serve to give me a headache).
But I feel the need to point out an important fact. The new ownership bought this team in part because Lou was running the hockey operations. He is an important asset to them, as they are not hockey guys and he is perhaps the most respected GM in hockey. (And their mantra has been "In Lou We Trust" whenever asked.)
But beyond that, Lou is considered one of the greatest minds in all of sports. He was part of YankeesNets (now Yankees Global Enterprises), where freaking George Steinbrenner came to him for consultation. He is considered a genius among ownership ranks. The billionaires respect him, borderline revere him.
So there is no way in Hell, especially 15 games into their first season owning the team, that firing Lou has remotely -- I mean for a nanosecond -- crossed their minds.
This entire conversation, even just the notion of it, is more ludicrous than what Rich Chere was stirring up with Marty the past couple days.
So b!tch all you want, yammer on into eternity in this thread, but it is all a waste of time and energy.
Lou is going to retire, soon, and on his own terms. No ownership group is going to sully his legacy, and in turn their own reputations, by firing Lou Lamoriello.
NEVER. GOING. TO. HAPPEN.
So pump the brakes, haters. And go back to bashing Pete Deboer. (He deserves it.)
Wingman77
Registered User
- Mar 16, 2010
- 20,251
- 766
The worst part is just about this entire board was praising Lou all summer for the great moves he made, how promised we were looking
and now boom everybody wants him fired and is a genius after the fact when things aren't going well
It's hilariously and very badly contradictory too - it's apparantely Lou's fault according to them that he brought in guys that stink, yet everybody also wants PDB fired because if he puts certain guys in or out of the lineup (keep in mind they all stink), we'll be better
It's an embarrassment and this level of stupidity was sledom present on this board a few years ago
MartyOwns
thank you shero
- Apr 1, 2007
- 24,683
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classic case of "I have nothing else to add to the argument, so I will turn the attention to other players"
bravo. excellent work.
you are the one who said "a team with bad defense," therefore bringing others into the conversation.
Larsson and Fayne were healthy scratches on a "team with bad defense". so urbom, larsson, and fayne. so many dimes, so many dozens right?
Every good thing as a expiring date on it and Lou is no different.
We do have new owners who probably don't know anything about the game and canning your Gm after a couple of months from buying the team just doesn't make any sense and I think everyone can agree with that.
It doesn't mean that they can't "clean house" during the offseason or next year. I don't think anyone wants to see Lou gone by monday of next week but we do have a dilemma here and that's to stay path and hope that our veterans will turn things around or look towards the future and rebuild this team the proper way... and that's threw the draft and not threw free agency.
Having a stellar track record is probably the only reason why he's still our Gm ATM cause if it was anyone else, he would've gotten his pink slip by now. I'm a realist and don't like to judge things based on the past and that's why I try to look at things based on the present and what happend a couple of months ago, not a decade ago, and there's been more negative then positive. Outside of going on a miracle cup run, we've been below average at best, we got dealt with a big blow in regards to the IK penalty, we've been losing core players every single time they're about to reach free agency, etc, etc, etc...
Lou doesn't believe in rebuilds, fine, let's just get someone that does cause where at a point where a rebuild is a must, not a option.
But we don't have that balance tonight do we? The only reason Gelinas is in the game is because Salvador is still out. DeBoer said after the last game he wasn't pleased with Gelinas and his play. I don't care if we lose as long as we are building a better ice product. The Devils aren't building they are patching.
Brooklyndevil
Registered User
I became a Devils fan in large part due to Lamoriello, sounds strange but I just had so much respect for the man when he to over has GM. At the time he kind of reminded me of BIll Torey, another GM I admired greatly. But, like Mr. Torrey it seems like Mr. Lamoriello has lost his mojo. And it's not just Lou, the scouting department needs changes. I love Lou, I hope he stays on as president, I just believe it's time for a younger and innovative GM to take over. Fresh blood and fresh ideas. And if we're this bad by the trade deadline I hope he decides to sell as much as possible and add assets, because losing a top 5 pick is going to hurt. However, he can soften the blow by adding as many picks as possible. Thank goodness I decided not to follow this year's top draft crop and from what I understand there isn't a sure shot superstar.
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I don't know if it was part of Lou's makavelik plan but he signed a bunch of veterans that would be attractive to other teams around the deadline, to stock pile some picks if ever we did suck, I'll take back everything I said.
I'm not talking about Clowe here, cause I think he'll be our new #28 in no time but maybe guys like Jagr, Ryder and Brunner might be of interest for a team in contention. Jagr is a pending UFA and the other two forwards both have another year to go and are signed to "cap friendly deals".
Just trying to think positive here.
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