Is it time for Lou to get his walking papers

[MartyOwns]

It's debatable, depending on the player. I'd blame development on Josefson, Fayne and Larsson stunting (all of whom actually had 'some' niche in the league at one point) and the whole Matteau situation last year as well but I'd blame drafting on Tedenby, Corrente and guys like that who just aren't NHL players.

definitely agree with this

 

[CKPLAYA]

in my opinion, the only bad thing lou did was not giving up the 29th pick. he did what he could when kovalchuk left, he was put in a very tough situation.

He knew all along Kovy wasn't come back. Kovy made it clear to management that he was leaving as soon as he returned. I'll leave it at that.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

It isn't Conte's fault that we rush players into positions they aren't ready to handle.

This.

Plus, Conte can recommend solid prospects but after that, his job is done. If the boss doesn't agree with one of his recommendations, is Lou obliged to take whoever Conte and his staff are suggesting?

If Lou doesn't have a word to say about the pick, that's one thing but Conte doesn't decide who makes the team and who should see more time in the minors.

Lou is pulling the strings here and our puppet is borderline handicapped now. You can try and glue back the pieces that are falling but they'll eventually break down in no time.

 

[Oneiro]

I'm a huge supporter of Lou's philosophy, whether we're talking about loyalty, not blindly following what the rest of the league is doing, rewarding guys who do more than they're asked, developing players who have a strong defensive conscience.

But why I would want him gone is because the organization has fetishized the qualities that once made it great. And it's come at the expense of reality.

Sometimes, when no one is chopping their legs off, it's not because they're all sheep. It's because chopping your legs off is a stupid idea in the first place.

Going with SAH D who have no offensive ability whatsoever. Relics drafted from another era.

Going for YEARS without a true puckmoving defenseman.

Forcing the puck retrieval game when we don't have the legs to play it.

This is the equivalent of chopping your own legs off.

And now the stuff the team's identity is built on - strong board play, strong support for teammates - is all slipping.

Is it DeBoer's fault? Doesn't matter because we know who calls the shots.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I certainly think Tedenby and Josefson were rushed to the NHL, it's Lou's fault that the 2011 team was so starved for talent that they were forced to call them up.

Had they developed properly they'd likely be much different players today.

 

[Baemon Severson*]

Parise- He gave every indication that he would stay if we fielded a competitive offer. ZP and Lou both said NJ's offer was right around where Minnesota's was. I, and many others believe that the reason he chose Minny is because he got the lockout guaranteed signing bonus. There is no way, with the state of our finances back then, we could have given him millions of guaranteed money without games. I mean, I guess Lou could've locked up ZP after his knee injury, but that would've been a gamble for obvious reasons and we don't know what JVB's checkbook looked like (Hint: probably not pretty)

Kovalchuk- JVB obviously drove the bus with that one. Lou fleeced Waddell and even got the pick that landed us Merrill (RIP). The contract was lunacy, but once again, I wouldn't doubt that JVB told Lou to get it done, no questions asked. I will blame Lou with how he handled the rejected contract and basically challenged the NHL. However, all bias aside, the punishment did not fit the crime. Now here's the real question- how would y'all have handled Kovy's request to go back home? You can: A) keep a disgruntled player here who clearly wasn't giving it his all last season B) let him go and and gain instant/future cap flexibility or C) collude with Kovalchuk to let him go back so that a potential sale would go more swimingly. Not going to blame Lou there

Lesser UFA's leaving (Martin, Gionta, Clarkson)- Martin would be nice to have, but not necessary as shown by the 2012 run. Gionta is pretty meh and Clarkson's contract just reeks. Martin is the only one who probably got a fair contract. My memory is pretty hazy, but I believe is was pretty set on leaving anyway.

29th Pick- Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh

Recent UFA Aquisitions (Ryder, Clowe, Brunner, Jagr, Olesz)-

Goodness that Clowe contract is awful but he is far from a useless player. He has much better playmaking abilities than Clarkson. Still, his contract is about 2 years too long and is 2 million overpaid per year.

Ryder and Brunner are decent offensive pieces, though are far from core players. They need to be put in the right situation to succeed and I'm not sure NJ has the right personnel to do that. Not bad gambles though

Jagr- Great move and can be traded at the deadline if need be

Olesz- Low risk, medium reward. No problem here

Recent Trades of Note:

Tallinder for Useless Minor Leaguer- Obvious roster dump, but he's certainly missed. Easiest guy to move and I remember most of NJDevs praised the trade so Larsson and younger players would have room

Loktionov for 5th Round Pick- Brilliant move, even if Loktionov has been underwhelming this season. Like I said earlier, this is the kind of thing Lou needs to pull off in order to give our offense new, young blood. Grigorenko, perhaps?

Schneider for 9th overall- Another no brainer. Re-signing him will be a different matter though

Re-signing of players since '12-

Travis Zajac- Length is fine, probably a bit overpaid but I think these last two games kind of prove how important he is. Does it all, although you feel he could do more offensively. Absolutely necessary to lock him up

Patrik Elias- You give the man anything he wants. Still a fantastic player even if the 3rd year could be ugly

Zubrus- Looks done to be honest. Early returns aren't flattering and it won't be getting any better

Bryce Salvador- Was ready to kick him to the curb after last season, but has rebounded nicely. Still don't like the contract, but whatever

Adam Henrique- Getting paid a million too much but another necessary move. Locks up some UFA years to boot

Mark Fayne- Another good move. Wish Deboer liked him more

Zidlicky- One year, so not a big deal. Can flip him at the deadline if it comes to that

Summation-

I ask everyone here: what could Lou have done differently personnel wise? The only thing I could think of is maybe take a flier on Semin, but he was coming off a putrid year in Washington. The losses of Parise and Kovy weren't his fault. The Schneider trade was larssony (heh). Some of the newer contracts stink but every GM makes those sort of mistakes. With Brodeur, Zids and Jagr gone, there will be a ton of space to make changes.

 

[Wingman77]

I certainly think Tedenby and Josefson were rushed to the NHL, it's Lou's fault that the 2011 team was so starved for talent that they were forced to call them up.

Had they developed properly they'd likely be much different players today.

I wouldn't say that

Both played well under Lemaire and it was pretty evident they were ready and able to handle the NHL workload

Lemaire was tough and strict, but he still allowed for players who made mistakes to make up for those opportunities - Tedenby for instance would make a mistake or two and Lemaire would limit his ice time for the game but resume with regular ice time the next game

Then all of a sudden PDB comes along and that promise we saw just disappears? Too much of a coincidence there and it correlates with PDB's over punishing of kids making mistakes and Josefson getting banged up early in PDB's first year while other players emerged - if you're a kid and make a mistake with PDB, you are in the press box the next day

 

[Devils Dominion]

Fire Pete, Lou and Conte.

 

[Holtz My Bahls]

It's debatable, depending on the player. I'd blame development on Josefson, Fayne and Larsson stunting (all of whom actually had 'some' niche in the league at one point) and the whole Matteau situation last year as well but I'd blame drafting on Tedenby, Corrente and guys like that who just aren't NHL players.

I really am dying to know what Conte saw in Tedenby that led to us drafting him. He was even smaller then and weighed like 149lbs I think...

 

[Devils Dominion]

I really am dying to know what Conte saw in Tedenby that led to us drafting him. He was even smaller then and weighed like 149lbs I think...

He scored a few highlight goals in the Swedish league that were on Youtube.

Conte and his good ole boy clubhouse of scouts have been given free reign for too many years now. The Euro scouts should all be fired and Conte put on double secret probation by Harris.

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

The worst is playing captain hindsight and seeing the guys we passed on.

I do it more than I should.

 

[Holtz My Bahls]

The worst is playing captain hindsight and seeing the guys we passed on.

I do it more than I should.

 

[Holtz My Bahls]

My breaking point would be, if Lamoriello loses Schneider for nothing.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Tedenby was ranked 26th by TSN:
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=7125

16th by THN:
http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Draft/2008/predraft_ranks0640.htm

24th by Mckeens



lets not act like he was taken 2 rounds early.

 

[bmqdevils]

He knew all along Kovy wasn't come back. Kovy made it clear to management that he was leaving as soon as he returned. I'll leave it at that.

so what do you want lou to do? trade him? lol

 

[MichaelJ]

Summation-

I ask everyone here: what could Lou have done differently personnel wise? The only thing I could think of is maybe take a flier on Semin, but he was coming off a putrid year in Washington. The losses of Parise and Kovy weren't his fault. The Schneider trade was larssony (heh). Some of the newer contracts stink but every GM makes those sort of mistakes. With Brodeur, Zids and Jagr gone, there will be a ton of space to make changes.

It seemed to be well-known that Parise was going to team up with his BFF, regardless of whatever snippets were in the media. I blame Lou for not being proactive and not shopping Parise when he wouldn't sign a long-term deal.

The only thing I blame Lou about the Kovalchuk situation is not forfeiting the pick in 2012.

I also think we need a #1 C, not 2 #2-3 C's, especially would not have given Zajac the deal he got.

Everything else is what it is. I'm just wondering if Lou is the guy to turn it around from here or not.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

how often are #1 Centers traded or signed via UFA?

you need to develop them

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

Tedenby was ranked 26th by TSN:
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=7125

16th by THN:
http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Draft/2008/predraft_ranks0640.htm

24th by Mckeens



lets not act like he was taken 2 rounds early.

Good point. Though I wonder if Lou/Scouts projected he would grow into his frame a bit more.

I think UnseenHand had a good point the other night regarding his confidence. I think it's clear that Teddy's skill has declined considerably since he was drafted. He's forcing himself to play a dump/chase forecheck game and that's really not where he thrives.

 

[Marv4Life]

If there was a chance Lou felt that Parise and Kovy would not be staying then he could have traded them. End of. Believe it or not there were a couple of teams who would have taken Kovy's salary.

 

[apice3*]

It's debatable, depending on the player. I'd blame development on Josefson, Fayne and Larsson stunting (all of whom actually had 'some' niche in the league at one point) and the whole Matteau situation last year as well but I'd blame drafting on Tedenby, Corrente and guys like that who just aren't NHL players.

You just named 4 guys ruined/stunted by development and 2 by drafting.

The draft busts are going to happen when you draft in the mid 20s. Stunting 3 first round picks over a 5 year period is unacceptable.

 

[apice3*]

If there was a chance Lou felt that Parise and Kovy would not be staying then he could have traded them. End of.

We went to the Cup finals in Parise's final year. You don't trade your best player when you're going for a Cup.

Believe it or not there were a couple of teams who would have taken Kovy's salary.

Well I'm sold.

 

[NJDevs26]

I really am dying to know what Conte saw in Tedenby that led to us drafting him. He was even smaller then and weighed like 149lbs I think...

People have to remember, the years right after the lockout smaller and quicker players were all the rage.

 

[Emperoreddy]

It can't be forgotten that JJ's development has been stunted because of injury too. He missed a lot of time due to injury.

 

[NJDevs26]

You just named 4 guys ruined/stunted by development and 2 by drafting.

The draft busts are going to happen when you draft in the mid 20s. Stunting 3 first round picks over a 5 year period is unacceptable.

Well it's still early to call Matteau stunted. He went backwards a bit, but he was way rushed to begin with. He's now at the level he should be at. If he was never in the NHL last year people wouldn't be complaining about him now.

 

[AfroThunder396]

I wouldn't say that

Both played well under Lemaire and it was pretty evident they were ready and able to handle the NHL workload

Lemaire was tough and strict, but he still allowed for players who made mistakes to make up for those opportunities - Tedenby for instance would make a mistake or two and Lemaire would limit his ice time for the game but resume with regular ice time the next game

Then all of a sudden PDB comes along and that promise we saw just disappears? Too much of a coincidence there and it correlates with PDB's over punishing of kids making mistakes and Josefson getting banged up early in PDB's first year while other players emerged - if you're a kid and make a mistake with PDB, you are in the press box the next day

Being able to tread water in a heavily sheltered system is not the same as being ready to handle an NHL workload.