Is Finland a Top 3 Hockey Nation

[psycho_dad*]

Until the status of the NHL and KHL changes, I can't see the top-3 countries not being Canada, the United States, and Russia. The SEL can enter in if one of them is faltering.

We can have a long winded debate about who produces the superior hockey talent, but we cannot ignore where superior hockey talent actually GOES or tends to congregate.

So because the best players in the world go to play either in North America or Russia, this means the national teams should be ranked by the strength of the leagues that are open to any nationalities?

This is a VERY confusing thought about how to rank national teams...

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

but we cannot ignore where superior hockey talent actually GOES or tends to congregate.

The attempts are, nonetheless, strong and spirited. One can almost sense the sisu in the posts.

 

[BusQuets]

Until the status of the NHL and KHL changes, I can't see the top-3 countries not being Canada, the United States, and Russia. The SEL can enter in if one of them is faltering.

We can have a long winded debate about who produces the superior hockey talent, but we cannot ignore where superior hockey talent actually GOES or tends to congregate.

Yeah of course since hockey is really really small sport globally. For example there are 600000 registered players in Canada and 500000 in USA. There is only 60000 in Finland and that includes beer league players. Surprising the best league is in North America?

 

[psycho_dad*]

Canada: back to back Olympic champions, exc. I think its fair to say we are in the top 3. There are alot of reasons.

Sweden: Has medal-ed 3 out of 4 years at the World Championships, Silver in the Olympics with an injury depleted lineup, medal-ed last 3 years in the World Juniors.

USA: This one is really a toss up between USA & Russia IMO, I just went with USA cause they have done better in the Olympics as of late, , aswell they were the most recent country of the 2 to win a gold medal on any stage. And while this isn't a huge deal because of the KHL, they do have more players in the NHL.

OHHHHH you're counting kids and second rate tournaments, and league appreciation. I got it. Then no problem with your ranking

 

[Sabane]

I guess it's confusing to figure out exactly when you guys do/don't want us to focus on the developmental levels of countries as part of the process, because it typically doesn't help the Finnish case vs the other "super powers" (relegation round the year before, 6th before that, etc). But yeah, there's a junior win in there. Good find?

Nothing to do with that. Hoped that u just would have done some backround checking before writing these so called "facts"

 

[psycho_dad*]

The attempts are, nonetheless, strong and spirited. One can almost sense the sisu in the posts.

Who has ignored that best talent goes to NHL?

I have not seen one person dispute that.

I just don't know wtf does that have to do with this topic. This is about national team rankings, not about which countries have the strongest leagues filled with foreigners.

 

[Sabane]

Speaking of wrong as usual, Sweden most recently defeated Canada in the quarter-final of last year's WC (2013). And guess what? The Slovaks beat them in the quarter-final of the WC before that (2012). And finally, the Czechs defeated Canada in round robin play in 2010.

And now u are bringing the WC into play though u don't even care about that? And Finland beat Canada 2014 U20...

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Don't quit your day job or school, whatever.

You need to understand what affects the betting lines before you should invest money in it. And you need to be absolutely about results, percentage and not at all about your feelings or opinions if you want to make any money out of it in the long run.

And you clearly can't differentiate between feelings and reality, so it's definitely not a job for you.

Tell that to the professional odds makers who never have you pegged as having a top 3 chance at winning anything... ever.

 

[BusQuets]

The attempts are, nonetheless, strong and spirited. One can almost sense the sisu in the posts.

I just looked in your post history and saw you have been posting in every topic which is about Finland or what not. Relax man it's just entertainment. Also i'm pretty sure finnish national team fans and players have been much happier with their tournament results last decades than USA players and fans. That is all that matters but if you feel better arguing in the internet that you don't care for bronze or silver go ahead.

 

[Sabane]

Tell that to the professional odds makers who never have you pegged as having a top 3 chance at winning anything... ever.

How about Ducks at NHL. They can't be candidates to win the SC cuz Penguins and Hawks had lower odds to that?

 

[psycho_dad*]

Speaking of wrong as usual, Sweden most recently defeated Canada in the quarter-final of last year's WC (2013). And guess what? The Slovaks beat them in the quarter-final of the WC before that (2012). And finally, the Czechs defeated Canada in round robin play in 2010.

So now you're bringing second rate tournaments into this as if they matter? I thought you didn't give a **** about those? Ok let's bring those in, Finland has been #2 in the IIHF ranking for 4 years straight now, never out of the top #4 since 2007.

So now Canada cares about the world championships? Someone watches them here and knows that you lost to sweden or slovakia or czech and actually puts any value to this since it's a tournament everyone appreciates even less than the kids games?

It's retarted that we're talking about BEST ON BEST TOURNAMENTS and you start bringing things from world championships to the table. You're going to lose that battle as well since Finland is ranked 2nd, mostly based on those tournaments.

You sure you want to go there?

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Nothing to do with that. Hoped that u just would have done some backround checking before writing these so called "facts"

Okay then...

Fact: Finland is the only team who hasn't defeated Canada in a men's international tournament since 2006 (Russia, the team Finnish fans like to crap on the most, has defeated Canada multiple times in the WCs since then).

But I'm ready to get back to factoring in junior (and women's if you like) success into the "overall" picture whenever you are. I obviously included it as one element among many when this all started, but am still more than willing to keep the scope as narrow as it has become over the ensuing pages.

So now you're bringing second rate tournaments into this as if they matter?

See above.

 

[psycho_dad*]

Tell that to the professional odds makers who never have you pegged as having a top 3 chance at winning anything... ever.

Like I said, you don't understand that business, please don't talk about it..just makes you look stupid. Ok?

The odds are not rankings, I'll give you that much of a hint. They are a calculation of the best way for the bookies to make money. It's a business, not a charity.

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

OHHHHH you're counting kids and second rate tournaments, and league appreciation. I got it. Then no problem with your ranking

The question is "hockey nation" not "most recent olympic finish"

Just because Finland finished higher than USA & Russia in Soschi doesn't mean they are a greater hockey nation.

And I hate to come across like I am hating on Finland cause they have really done a great job but I mean really?

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I just looked in your post history and saw you have been posting in every topic which is about Finland or what not.

Well, if you looked at my posting history, you'd see that I always have, and continue to, post in plenty of other threads on completely other topics as well (unlike those who are engaging me in these conversations). If people are going to reply to my posts, especially in the manner you can see before you, I'm going to reply more often than not. Admittedly, because of the past threads I've been involved it, I knew exactly who I'd find when I got here, and how this would all play out.

 

[psycho_dad*]

The question is "hockey nation" not "most recent olympic finish"

Just because Finland finished higher than USA & Russia in Soschi doesn't mean they are a greater hockey nation.

And I hate to come across like I am hating on Finland cause they have really done a great job but I mean really?

Finland has done a way better job than USA and Russia overall since the NHL players were allowed in the olympics (1998-2014).

Russia has 1 silver (from 1998), 1 bronze
USA has 2 silver medals
Finland has 1 silver, 3 bronze medals and runner up in world cup

Finland has beaten both more often than not in head to head games. Finland has done better against top 7 opponents and also overall in points.

Where USA and Russia both have 2 out of 6 tournaments in top 3....Finland has 5 out of 6 tournaments in top 3.
So yeah, Really.

 

[Sabane]

Like psyco_dad said, if u guys start counting WC WJC etc then we're the #2 and Ohasi, like u just said, odds aint rankings, why did u brought them up then?

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

And I hate to come across like I am hating on Finland cause they have really done a great job but I mean really?

Welcome to my experience on this board, lol.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Ohasi, like u just said, odds aint rankings, why did u brought them up then?

Uh, I didn't? Way to pay attention. They do represent the most sophisticated process between this thread and anything else for determining who is "expected" to win anything, though, and that expectation isn't devoid of analysis of "strength".

As an very minor aside, is the 'h' key broken on your keyboard? You left it out of the last two usernames you attempted to spell (probably just the paying attention thing).

 

[psycho_dad*]

Welcome to my experience on this board, lol.

At least Sergei pointed out his criteria and did not try to prove against results. He did not claim that his criteria would matter more than results, like you do.

 

[psycho_dad*]

Uh, I didn't? Way to pay attention.

Tell that to the professional odds makers who never have you pegged as having a top 3 chance at winning anything... ever.

You didn't? You don't remember what you have said 10 minutes ago or what?

 

[Sabane]

Uh, I didn't? Way to pay attention.

As an very minor aside, is the 'h' key broken on your keyboard? You left it out of the last two usernames you attempted to spell (probably just the paying attention thing).

Typo, my bad sorry.

"Tell that to the professional odds makers who never have you pegged as having a top 3 chance at winning anything... ever."

I'm pretty sure it wasn't me writing that..

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

You didn't? You don't remember what you have said 10 minutes ago or what?

You do know what "bring up" means, right? As in, the guy who submits the idea for the first time for consideration. That wasn't me.

 

[psycho_dad*]

You do know what "bring up" means, right? As in, the guy who submits the idea for the first time for consideration. That wasn't me.

Someone might have mentioned it earlier somewhere. You were bringing it back up again after it had been dealt with already.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Someone might have mentioned it earlier somewhere. You were bringing it back up again after it had been dealt with already.

It would have been shorter if you just typed "Sorry, my bad". Like this guy:

I'm probaply wrong. No hard feelings. It just seemd like u did.