No substance in saying the Czech was the greatest hockey nation in 1998. They won a cup, with a large chunk of luck. Greece wasn’t Europe’s greatest football nation because they won the euros. That’s not how it works.
Is Czech Republic a top nation again?
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unkempt
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- Oct 19, 2006
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Well, compared to Greece, Czechia seemed to have won a little more than just one title around that time.
So you are just proving my words - narrow-sighted and no substance.
unkempt
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- Oct 19, 2006
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Plus you are guilty of the oh-so-popular discussion sin of changing the goalposts. We are talking about a period (more or less 1998-2006), and you all of a sudden started to talk about 1998, to suit your misguided narrative.
Is that linguistic enough for you?
GettingYourMoms
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- Jun 6, 2018
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You can't be serious dude, Czechia had 80+ players in NHL in those times and tons of fantastic players in Europe. We could build 5 teams and all of them would be gold medal candidates. If that is not elite, then i dont know what is...
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Svedu
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- Apr 23, 2019
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Why play a tournament at all if nothing matters? It's like the cup is half empty at all time with you. If your favorites don't win then it's not real or you have an excuse. Interesting...
My conclusion: You have no respect for the winners. You will always have excuses. And if everyone would think like you, then there is no point in playing in the first place.
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Svedu
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What about Swedens luck 2006 when Finland were pretty even in the end? When Forsberg explained that they didn't try to win against Slovakia in the group stage because they feared the opponents on the other side? Does that mean that Sweden weren't the best then? Or were they just because you like them more than the Czechs 1998 or Finland these last five years?
Back in what sense? In seniors, juniors? They have some excellent players in the NHL right now, unfortunately for them they are only forwards. They don't have that many starting goalkeepers, but they have many fairly decent substitutes. And they don't even have genuine talent in goal like the USA's Knight, Sweden's Wallstedt or Russia's Askarov, with all due respect to Suchanek or Dostal.
They have no defense, their core is ridiculously weak, this is where they lose the most. And this will be true for several more years. But the Czechs have hope for a better line-up of defenders if all of them from this tournament succeed in the AHL and convince the teams that drafted them that they can play in the NHL. At the moment, I see Jirick as the most ready to play in the NHL, there is no doubt about it. I'm not sure about Svozil, considering how many teams Columbus has in the first and how many in the AHL, he can also wait two or three years to be a permanent part of Columbus in the NHL. In addition, Columbus does not have old players on defense, so they will not look for a replacement for the outgoing player at any cost.
I have the most doubts about Spacek, his NHL team is Minnesota. And they only have to replace Goligoski, otherwise they have a complete defense. And they drafted Lambos, Orourke or Hunt before Spacek, so it will be very difficult for him. Because it's one thing to play well at the WJC, but something far different and more difficult to succeed in the NHL. Look at Sweden, they have quite a few defenders drafted in recent years, but how many of them can be said to be a stable part of their teams?
2017, Brännström and Liljegren were drafted in the first round, both have a combined 248 games in the NHL, not a lot, right?
2018, Dahlin, Boqvist, Johansson and Sandin were selected in the first round. Dahlin is a generational talent among defensemen, let's not count it out. So that leaves Boqvist, Sandin, Johansson...Johansson has exactly zero games, Boqvist 135 and Sandin 121.
Year 2019, Broberg, Söderström, Björnfot were selected in the first round. Björnfot has played the most - 110 matches, then Broberg 35 and Söderström 20.
What do I mean by all this? Well, the fact that even though Sweden has recently had a lot of defensemen from the first round of the draft, it does not mean that they will immediately succeed. Some of them play only 100 games in the NHL and don't earn a place in the first team, they only play in the AHL and then return to Europe. I put a lot of hope in those players, that when Erik Karlsson, Jonas Brodin or Victor Hedman end up in the senior team, it will not be a problem to replace them. It is not easy to get a place in the NHL, the competition is getting bigger every year and even though the Czechs look great, nobody knows how many of those guys will play in the NHL one day.
I already read that Svozil and Jiricek also have brothers who play in defense. And that they are supposed to be even better one day...but I would be very careful that expectations do not kill them. A lot of people will have a need to compare them and they may not be able to stand it, such pressure. So with the claim that the Czechs are back among the five (ok, now without Russia) best teams and make up the big six again for two or three years. For these current players to prove their quality at the highest level. They seem to have started doing things better, but one WJC tournament is a small sample to say they are back.
They have no defense, their core is ridiculously weak, this is where they lose the most. And this will be true for several more years. But the Czechs have hope for a better line-up of defenders if all of them from this tournament succeed in the AHL and convince the teams that drafted them that they can play in the NHL. At the moment, I see Jirick as the most ready to play in the NHL, there is no doubt about it. I'm not sure about Svozil, considering how many teams Columbus has in the first and how many in the AHL, he can also wait two or three years to be a permanent part of Columbus in the NHL. In addition, Columbus does not have old players on defense, so they will not look for a replacement for the outgoing player at any cost.
I have the most doubts about Spacek, his NHL team is Minnesota. And they only have to replace Goligoski, otherwise they have a complete defense. And they drafted Lambos, Orourke or Hunt before Spacek, so it will be very difficult for him. Because it's one thing to play well at the WJC, but something far different and more difficult to succeed in the NHL. Look at Sweden, they have quite a few defenders drafted in recent years, but how many of them can be said to be a stable part of their teams?
2017, Brännström and Liljegren were drafted in the first round, both have a combined 248 games in the NHL, not a lot, right?
2018, Dahlin, Boqvist, Johansson and Sandin were selected in the first round. Dahlin is a generational talent among defensemen, let's not count it out. So that leaves Boqvist, Sandin, Johansson...Johansson has exactly zero games, Boqvist 135 and Sandin 121.
Year 2019, Broberg, Söderström, Björnfot were selected in the first round. Björnfot has played the most - 110 matches, then Broberg 35 and Söderström 20.
What do I mean by all this? Well, the fact that even though Sweden has recently had a lot of defensemen from the first round of the draft, it does not mean that they will immediately succeed. Some of them play only 100 games in the NHL and don't earn a place in the first team, they only play in the AHL and then return to Europe. I put a lot of hope in those players, that when Erik Karlsson, Jonas Brodin or Victor Hedman end up in the senior team, it will not be a problem to replace them. It is not easy to get a place in the NHL, the competition is getting bigger every year and even though the Czechs look great, nobody knows how many of those guys will play in the NHL one day.
I already read that Svozil and Jiricek also have brothers who play in defense. And that they are supposed to be even better one day...but I would be very careful that expectations do not kill them. A lot of people will have a need to compare them and they may not be able to stand it, such pressure. So with the claim that the Czechs are back among the five (ok, now without Russia) best teams and make up the big six again for two or three years. For these current players to prove their quality at the highest level. They seem to have started doing things better, but one WJC tournament is a small sample to say they are back.
Doshell Propivo
Registered User
- Dec 5, 2005
- 13,276
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Yes, I would like you to count. Please list those 15 players. The only ones of any significance I have listed. And if the country and federation are in such disarray that players refuse to participate (in the biggest hockey tournament of the century), then you get what you deserve. Calling it a "B team" is an idiotic take and you should be embarrassed to even write that. I mean seriously, WTF...
"Missing 12-15 players..." LOL!!!! Now THAT is funny.
Doshell Propivo
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- Dec 5, 2005
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Greece sucked before, during and after those Euros. They won 3 games 1-0 by going into a defensive shell, being completely outclassed, and hoping against hope that they could miraculously win off a set piece. And they did. The Czechs, by contrast, had HOFers on their roster and continued playing at an elite level years after.
Lame comparison.
Well you have to be consistent if you are making the argument one cup decides who’s the number 1 hockey nation.
Not changing any goalpost. The discussion we had was:
1. Czhech republic have never been nr1 hockey nation.
2. The response was ”yes at least 1998 cuz they won the Olympics
3. To which I refuted a cup means nothing in ghe debate of who is the greatest hockey nation
Svedu
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- Apr 23, 2019
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Lmao! Consistent? Then explain how Sweden is better than Finland these 5 last years?
So Greece weren't the best when they in fact won the whole tournament, again, why even compete in the first place?
But let me get this right... When the Czech both won a best-on-best and were more or less dominating hockey for a couple of years it still meant nothing and they weren't the best because of... You say so, because? You've made up your mind and that's just how it is? Okay.
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Very unpleasant and arrogant..
What one cup? Can't read, do you have a problem understanding written text?
What one cup? Can't read, do you have a problem understanding written text?
Svedu
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- Apr 23, 2019
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Well, if a cup means nothing, in this case a best-on-best, then everything and anything means nothing at all time.
Also, when you state that Sweden would be better han Finland these last five or more years when Finland have been better in both WJC's, olympics and the WC's... Just wow, lmao! You are just posting gibberish at this point, nothing means anything and that's the only point you've made so far.
Well it’s easy to find out. They had 39 players in 1997/1998 season, Canada meanwhile had 512 players in the same season.
In terms of who’s the greatest hockey nation? We have better players and can build a stronger team than Finland.
Doshell Propivo
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- Dec 5, 2005
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Having a lot of NHLers on the roster didn't seem to help the other countries in 1998...
Svedu
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- Apr 23, 2019
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Yeah, these last ten WJC's, last five WC's and the latest Olympics shows that you are right. Oh no, actually they show quite the opposite.
Svedu
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- Apr 23, 2019
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Oh, and quantity is everything? How come Croatia is so good in football? How come Finland are so good in hockey?
I would pick Jagr and Hasek over any other forward and goalie from Nagano Olympics and that shows you that they were elite and that's what matters in the end. You only need a couple of few good ones to win if you have an overall good team with good chemistry. But I guess you've missed that?
I honestly believe you think that being best is some kind of a skill contest or something. Or only counting stats from the NHL and believe that it's the only thing that matters because this game is an individual sport... Oh, no it actually isn't? It's not how team sports work and that's one of the things that makes it more interesting.
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It’s hardly best on best. Best on best would have been Canada with Lemieux, Messier and Russia without half their players missing. Canada and Russia were by far the best hockey nations back then.
Regarding WJC, Olympics and WC these past years they have been rather irrelevant since they haven’t been best on best. Nations with a lot of good players (as in NHL players) have been left at a disadvantage while countries with a lot of rejects benefit.
Best on best Sweden is of course on another level than Finland. That’s not even up to debate.
Croatia is a small football nation, they can field a relatively strong team because you only need 11 decent players to go far in football. England, Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands, Brazil and Argentina are all significantly better football nations than Croatia.
Of course, the Czech Republic was No. 1 for a while. They won everything. 98 in Nagano and many IIHF Worlds. You have to respect that.
Svedu
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- Apr 23, 2019
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Oh, but you won't touch the fact that Sweden had a lot more NHL players participating in the WC's when Finland or others won the gold? Interesting...
Be my guest, go check Swedens roster in those tournaments and tell me that half of those WC-rosters didn't consist of some of your best NHL players against other countries without their best players, and guess what? You still lost.
Or 2013/2014, didn't you guys have Forsberg in the WJC's? But the Finnish team with Teräväinen were just stronger I guess... Or why not 2016, oh right, Finland weren't the best then either?
Your arguments are nothing but irrelevant excuses and you insist on living in denial.
Not with you. It's this crazy attitude. Your fellow countryman believes that stat watching individuals are what decides which nation is the best and that's nothing but ridiculous and utterly, excuse me, stupid.
Then there is no point in playing any tournaments or compete at all. You should rather question him and his reasoning?
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