Voight
#winning
Rumor has it after he stopped gambling online, his new addiction became clowning people on HFB
Is Connor Mcdavid a "tier above" Sidney Crosby as a player?
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Rumor has it after he stopped gambling online, his new addiction became clowning people on HFB
Voight
#winning
Hyman regularly played on the top line as well in Toronto. Guy was an up and coming talent destined for top line production somewhere. Trying to pretend like Hyman and Kessel aren’t on the same tier is funny.
Yeah, he’s a superstar. So is Crosby.
Well they did, just not as much now that McDavid has 1st line players like Hyman, Kane, and Perry.
And Perry was a Rocket Richard winner before joining Edmonton. And Kane was one of the best power forward in the league. Look at all the top line talent McDavid has been handed
It’s just soooooo funny
This isn't a good comparison.
Kessel had a handful of top 10 point & goal finishes pre Pittsburgh, when he was playing with the likes of Tyler Bozak. Hyman played with a far superior talent in Matthews and didn't approach that kind of production. He was trending upward when he left Toronto but I really don't think he'd of reached these heights had he not ended up playing with McDavid.
pi314
Registered User
You want the point?
You can't handle the point.
The basic premise of the whole thread is McDavid is above Sid.
And the argument is "hurr durr moar points".
When the whole league, not just players named Sid or Connor, went up in scoring. The exact moment they shrunk goalie equipment.
If you removed the 15% scoring increase, Connor just had the same 36 points Malkin had.
And the thing that matters, their overall contribution to winning...
...is clearly Sid. Clearly.
Does McDavid have a change to get there? Sure.
He's already a top 10 all-time great.
But he definitely ain't yet.
Certainly not Mario level. A healthy Mario never would have lost a scoring title to 2 other players.
I'll spell it out for the people in the back.
Even the hurr durr 11 points greatest run ever.
Let's break it down.
Connor
Game 1.
3-0 loss.
0 points.
Contribution to winning: Zero
Game 2.
4-1 loss.
1 assist.
Contribution to winning: Minimal, got an assist on an opening goal
Game 3:
4-3 loss
2 assists
Contribution to winning: Minimal, contributed after the game was already out of reach
Game 4:
8-1 win
4 points
Contribution to winning: None. Points all came after team game was out of reach.
Game 5:
5-3 win
4 points
Contribution to winning: Pretty much single-handedly won this game by himself.
Game 6:
5-1 win
0 points
Contribution to winning: None
Game 7:
2-1 loss
0 points
Contribution to winning: None
That's one dominant win and a lot of compiling.
You know... winning. The reason they play the games.
Sid 2016 vs the SJ Sharks
Game 1:
3-2 win
1 assist
Contribution to winning: Set up tying goal
Game 2:
2-1 OT win
1 assist
Contribution to winning: Set up OT winning goal
Game 3:
3-1 loss
0 points
Contribution to winning: None
Game 4:
3-1 win
0 points
Contribution to winning: None
Game 5:
4-2 loss
0 points
Contribution to winning: None
Game 6:
3-1 Stanley Cup win
2 points
Contribution to winning: Set up Stanley Cup winning goal and blocked shot setting up empty netter to seal a cup victory
That's the Conn Smythe that he "didn't deserve".
And he still had 3 games that the team very likely doesn't win without him.
The point?
A lot of you are hoodwinked by points as your god because the whole league went up in scoring.
And that's just easy to look up offensive points.
Find me a more diverse highlight reel than Sid's.
Dancing through entire teams.
Scoring while falling.
The best backhand in hockey history
Edge work.
Pure power protecting the puck.
Use of his skates,
Hand eye batting pucks in and consistently incredible redirects.
No look passes.
Hockey IQ.
Undressing players and goalies.
Shooting it off goalie's masks.
Stealing pucks.
Winning battles on the boards.
Diving goal line saves.
Poke checks and picking pockets.
Using the boards and the back of the net.
The Michigan goal.
Winning key face offs.
Blocking key shots.
I could go on forever. I have been spoiled to watch his entire career.
He's either the luckiest player in history who just keeps landing on winning teams since he's 12.
Or just maybe... just maybe... those teams keep winning because having Sid is a big advantage.
Can Connor get there?
Sure.
But in terms of actual real world winning... he's NOT yet.
And he still has a ways to go.
Everyone knows that McDavid played more games what pace shows is offensive impact adjusted over time and then pro rated to 82 games for both.
There is literally no one arguing your self imposed strawman except yourself and the other notorious MJ here.
PainForShane
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Ha, I laughed when I read this. Thanks for that.
But also, Drebin's posts seem imo mostly ridiculous. Designed to try to convince other ppl that they're actually objective but then going out of their way to misunderstand basic claims / arguments. Integrity matters, to me selling out your integrity to try to claim to win some sort of internet argument with strangers is maybe the worst kind of pathetic I've ever seen in my life.
However in the interest of fairness (which the McD ppl have generally not been interested in this thread), I do believe McDavid is generally a better highlight than Sid, although to your point Sid's is more diverse. Imo McDavid's is more impressive offensively though. Doesn't mean he's a tier above (I clearly don't believe he is), but imo his offensive highlights are better, esp to a casual hockey fan who doesn't understand Sid's computer brain.
***
And at the same time, obviously (and this is obvious to any hockey fan regardless of what 5 or so vocal internet posters think) Sid has a history of being clutch when it matters (incl golden goal) and McDavid has not yet been clutch. Sid was also clearly dominant offensively for a good 10-15 years or so, anyone who pretends or tries to argue otherwise is in my opinion a f***ing idiot.
***
If you look at the poll results, looks like about 2/3rd of hockey posters on this board believe Sid's at least on the same tier as Connor, that's roughly what I would expect. These trolls aren't convincing anyone of anything.
***
Anyway thanks for your post. Definitely appreciated
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JohnnyBerts
Registered User
I think it's so close between them. Sid before getting the back to back concussions was truly on another level, more similar to what we see in McD today but still McD in my opinion is incredible. No one can do the things he can.
The difference to me though is this: When Crosby came back from the concussions, he was able to adjust his game. He wasn't as dominant but he was more efficient and it was evident his focus was more on winning than anything else. It was amazing to watch him execute that. Laser focused on winning.
With McD I don't see the full out efficiency in his game yet. Sometimes he makes the most bonehead passes and turnovers which are easily forgotten because he obviously more than makes up for them a few minutes later - but I just feel he doesn't need to force plays like he does sometimes.
Hot take: If the Oilers had any clue how to build a roster, McD could push 180+ points and would have a cup by now.
The difference to me though is this: When Crosby came back from the concussions, he was able to adjust his game. He wasn't as dominant but he was more efficient and it was evident his focus was more on winning than anything else. It was amazing to watch him execute that. Laser focused on winning.
With McD I don't see the full out efficiency in his game yet. Sometimes he makes the most bonehead passes and turnovers which are easily forgotten because he obviously more than makes up for them a few minutes later - but I just feel he doesn't need to force plays like he does sometimes.
Hot take: If the Oilers had any clue how to build a roster, McD could push 180+ points and would have a cup by now.
Golden_Jet
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- Sep 21, 2005
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lol, averaging 33 games a year, so basically missing on average 50 games each year.
Maybe but my "hot take" is that he likely would get less points on an actually balanced roster, maybe not in terms of "points per ice-time" but in absolutes.
GreatGonzo
Registered User
Only you would argue that 4 points in 6 games with zero goals is better than 11 points In 7 with 3 goals. All while moving the goal posts to try to stay consistent with your terrible arguments.
Just say you hate McDavid. It’s painfully obvious.
I also love your bolded
“ah yes, Crosby doing all these things CLEARLY makes him the better player and you can’t disprove anything I’m saying with is rather convenient for my argument.”
PainForShane
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Only you would argue that 4 points in 6 games with zero goals is better than 11 points In 7 with 3 goals. All while moving the goal posts to try to stay consistent with your terrible arguments.
Just say you hate McDavid. It’s painfully obvious.
I also love your bolded
That's not even close to what he said.
GreatGonzo
Registered User
Your logic is that playing the games is the SAME as pacing, and that Crosby should get credit for the games he DIDNT play and the points he DIDNT put up because of his “pace.”
You literally have little to no argument to stand on. You are obsessed with pace and fake numbers because it tells you what you desperately need it to.
McDavid played the games, dominated, scored the points, won the awards….your logic?…
-higher scoring environment
-better linemates
-no defensive game
So basically, Crosby gets the benefit of the doubt for what he DIDNT achieve all while your pick apart and dissect what McDavud accomplished and write it off as not as impressive….all based on what Crosby WOULD HAVE done…
How does your head no hurt with all the BS you attempt to pass off as “facts?”
PainForShane
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GreatGonzo
Registered User
Oh yes it is. He loves putting context where it isn’t needed(or creates it). He loves minimizing McDavids efforts and achievements while overrating Crosbys at the same time. His argument make little to no sense and his constant need to move goalposts is more impressive than his actual debating skills.
Oh yes it is. Your clearly new here, I’d recommend going about his other posts and seeing it for yourself, rather than just sit here and provide nothing to the topic other than “no your wrong. I said so.”
PainForShane
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Video Nasty
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Was he really though, or was he merely on a hot streak after opening the season cool, after just 5 points in his final 8 playoff games of 2010? Ovechkin had been the better player for the prior three seasons, so I don’t see how Crosby suddenly was on another level than his peers.
Listen, I remember his play during the 25 game scoring streak where he piled up 26 goals and 50 points. He was magnificent. But it’s not something we haven’t seen similar from Ovechkin, Malkin, McDavid, etc. There’s little reason to think that was a new normal for him. Particularly since the streak was preceded by what it was and snapped with a pair of scoreless games before the game where he was concussed.
I just don’t understand the willingness to read so much into what is essentially less than a third of a season, while simultaneously ignoring (not you, but the crowd at large) what someone like McDavid has been doing for nearly 500 games now (788 points in his past 477 games for 1.65 PPG while missing just 19 games and rehabbing his knee while playing in 2019-2020 and clearly playing through injuries this current season).
GreatGonzo
Registered User
Like I said, you have nothing to bring to the topic… you crave attention regardless im guessing? Go troll somewhere else and feel better about yourself
PainForShane
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It's kind of amusing to laugh at how delusional your posts are. I mean that honestly.
Put another way, it's pretty funny to watch someone get offended by imaginary viewpoints that no one has actually said or has been arguing. Especially when that person goes out of his way to say, "So basically..." followed by continuously misunderstanding the points of the posts he's responding to.
If your posts actually demonstrated understanding of the conversation you're taking part in, I wouldn't find your posts so amusing. I mean that honestly as well.
GreatGonzo
Registered User
Not going to lie. I didn’t read any of your statement. Seemed like the same old stuff your peddling, a lot of deflecting and a need to troll simply because they have nothing better to do and have nothing of substance to bring to the conversation. You must be so proud of yourself..
PainForShane
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GreatGonzo
Registered User
Please provide such “clutch” moments that belong to Sid since there are so many, all while McDavid is apparently the farthest thing from clutch
I also love the downplay of McDavids offense as “better highlights.”
But then Crosby is more “diverse.”Again, two instances where you looked for reasons to belittle McDavid, and then prop up Crosby. No evidence behind your claims, just desperately looking for any and every way to make McDavid appear inferior.
PainForShane
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Please provide such “clutch” moments that belong to Sid since there are so many, all while McDavid is apparently the farthest thing from clutch
I also love the downplay of McDavids offense as “better highlights.”
Again, two instances where you looked for reasons to belittle McDavid, and then prop up Crosby. No evidence behind your claims, just desperately looking for any and every way to make McDavid appear inferior.
No, I am clearly not looking to make McDavid appear inferior to Sid. I've said multiple times that I believe they're about the same level of quality and belong in the same tier.
I also never said (nor do I believe) "McDavid is the farthest thing from clutch," there you go misunderstanding arguments again.
Re: comparing clutch moments, @pi314 did a pretty good job of specifically listing a few a couple posts up. You summarized his post as “ah yes, Crosby doing all these things CLEARLY makes him the better player and you can’t disprove anything I’m saying with is rather convenient for my argument" which is a completely inaccurate summary of his post -- but I guess you didn't bother to read / understand his post that would explain your nonsense summary and why you're asking for further evidence. But, it's already been provided in a post you directly responded to, thanks pi.
Personally if you're asking for clutch moments the first thing I'd include is the golden goal in the Olympics as would any other casual hockey fan or even every casual Canadian (I'm American btw, not sure if that's relevant). And here you are claiming Crosby hasn't been clutch while implying McDavid has been clutch, even though McD just threw up a goose egg in a game 7 not even a month ago. If McD had been clutch in gm 7 (ie the time where he needed to be most clutch) we wouldn't be having this discussion right now.
***
In the meantime? It seems to me like you're going out of your way to argue with imaginary viewpoints that don't exist. You're not convincing anyone of anything.
Like I said, it's amusing. I do get the joke this time.
norrisnick
The best...
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Newsflash. Being able to play more games if you provide similar impact when you play makes you a better player. Much moreso if you are also better when you play those games.
GreatGonzo
Registered User
Implying that Crosby is just so “clutch” but you can’t name any more moments outside of the Olympics? Interesting….its almost like your just stating that as an argument..
@pi314 attempted to call Crosbys 4 assists in 6 games “clutch” while McDavids 11 in 7 games wasn’t. His reasoning was hilarious along with it. There was no “proof” there, only more of the same trash.
You do realize Crosby scored zero points in that game 6 against Nashville and hardly played in game 7 against Detroit….but you are going to use it against McDavid that he wasn’t “clutch enough”
So basically, let’s hold McDavid to a different standard that not even Crosby did…ya sounds about right.
PainForShane
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TheAngryHank
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Livewell was near impossible to argue with , he buried people with straight JJ facts ,it crossed my mind a few times if it was actually JJ.Rumor has it after he stopped gambling online, his new addiction became clowning people on HFB
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